BREW DAY!! WATCHA’ GOT, EH? 2021

[Classic Brewing Co]

7 minutes ago, jamiek86 said:

double NWPA last of the LDM 480 grams 17 litres OG 1:056 will do a hop tea and bottle this baby in 500ml swing tops and carb in fridge with heater pad 

@jamiek86  as we discussed earlier, that is one of my favourite Pale Ales, that should have heaps of OOMPH !! What hops are you using ?

[ben 10]

was going to brew but cannot locate my grain bag FFS.

[Classic Brewing Co]

6 minutes ago, Green Blob said:

was going to brew but cannot locate my grain bag FFS.

Easy Have a beer instead. 

[ben 10]

All good, 4 down

[iBooz2]

34 minutes ago, Green Blob said:

was going to brew but cannot locate my grain bag FFS.

White tail rats made off with it?

[jamiek86]

1 hour ago, CLASSIC said:

@jamiek86  as we discussed earlier, that is one of my favourite Pale Ales, that should have heaps of OOMPH !! What hops are you using ?

not sure yet It could be the new Hallertau forget name but unlike the traditional one for lagers it's more fruity for pale ales. I have yet to try it so perfect opportunity 

[Journeyman]

22 hours ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

Hi JM

IanH uses 1.25 / 23 for the IBU and EBC of the full 1.7kg cans.  I just figured 1.25 x 1.3/1.7 = 0.956 to convert the same formula for the 1.3kg cans.  It is probably not a coincidence that the volume of the 1.7kg cans is 1.25 litres and the 1.3kg cans is 0.956 litres. 

Where do you find the volumes for the cans? I'm not seeing it anywhere on them. 

22 hours ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

To calculate the bitterness of the brew: Multiply the quoted product bitterness by the weight of the product (1.7kg) and divide by the total brew volume (normally 23 litres). We use the weight because our quoted colour/bitterness figures are based on a 10% weight/volume dilution.

I can see the logic here although the phrase "are based on a 10% weight/volume dilution" is confusing. Not sure if they are saying the liquid content is 10% of the weight? 

The 1.25 I thought was the conversion from LME to LDME so wouldn't using it in the calcs for a liquid extract throw things off? Seems to me if there are (say) 400 IBU's in a 1.7kg can then to work out the IBU's for volume of (say) 20 L, which is 20kg of water, it would make sense to get the IBU's per kg than x by the L's used. Unless someone has measured the volume of the cans it seems right to stick with the kg amounts. 

If the 1.25 is used because it is the conversion between LME and LDME, what is the logic of that? Neither of them do much for EBC or IBU's. We have a hopped extract of a set number of EBC/IBU in a set weight and Coopers use weight in their calcs. The Coopers formula makes sense if you remember BODMAS where it is actually Product bitterness x (1.7 / Brew volume) or even (Product bitterness x 1.7)/ Brew volume.

Maybe the reason you think the IBU's are less than the Coopers formula is this statement?
"This figure represents the brew bitterness prior to fermentation. Generally, fermentation reduces bitterness by between 10% to 30%. So final bitterness of the fermented brew may be anything from 14 to 18"

If I play with the SS, This Product bitterness x (1.3/23) seems to make most sense - without a hops boil the IBU is low but a 25 min boil of 20g mosaic puts it just above the Low figure. Given it's a Craft can with LME and 1 kg LDME in 20L that seems about right.

Hopefully someone who understand it more than I do can comment. Maybe @Coopers DIY Beer Team?

Edited August 16, 2021 by Journeyman

[jamiek86]

@Journeyman its all gone way over my head i also wondered about the quoted bitterness in only the 1.3kg can compared to the 1.7s i thought they were high. I can defiantly say those small cans pack more flavor than the 1.7kg

[Coopers DIY Beer Team]

Our quoted bitterness in IBU's for each hopped malt extract product is the target bitterness for that product in kilograms per litre (kg/L), so the formula takes those IBU's in kg/L and multiplies by the number of kilo's of product in the can, to give you the level of bitterness in that can. When you add water to make the brew up, you are diluting that hopped malt extract solution (and therefore colour and bitterness) by whatever the volume of the wort is when you pitch.  

"We use the weight because our quoted colour/bitterness figures are based on a 10% weight/volume dilution..." could be expanded upon or removed entirely to save confusion, so we'll have a look at that, but here's the long-winded explanation:

We have three product streams coming out of the brewhouse, commercial beer wort to be fermented into beer by the Lager Cellar operators, wort for hopped malt extract and sweet wort for unhopped malt extract, both of which are further processed (condensed through reduced pressure evaporation) by the Brewhouse operators in our Alpha Vap.

Beer worts are measured by volume in hectolitres and the malt extract brew streams are measured by mass in tonnes. Our operators take samples from every wort as it goes from the kettle to the whirlpool and measure bitterness and colour, among other parameters and those measurements are recorded.

Samples of the malt extract products are also taken from the malt tanks post-evaporation, and our laboratory staff measure colour and bitterness again, to make sure we've hit our targets prior to packaging the next day. These samples are diluted prior to being placed in the most expensive machine  at the rate of 10% w/vol. Say for example the equipment was calibrated to take 100ml of sample, then 10g of the extract is diluted to 100ml and then placed in the machine. The colour and bitterness figures the machine spits out are of course 1/10th of the actual colour and bitterness, so those numbers are then multiplied by ten to give the correct value, which is then recorded in our Quality Dataset. I hope this helps. 

Cheers!

 

[Shamus O'Sean]

I think that I am getting this @Journeyman and @Coopers DIY Beer Team.

Sounds like I should go and adjust the formulae in my IanH spreadsheet.

[Otto Von Blotto]

They've used weight for it ever since I've been brewing. The figure is pre fermentation though so perhaps the scrubbing is why they don't necessarily taste as bitter as the figures would suggest. 

Perhaps it's also why I can make my pilsners to 50 IBU and they sometimes still don't taste as bitter as the real urquell does. 

[Journeyman]

17 hours ago, Coopers DIY Beer Team said:

"We use the weight because our quoted colour/bitterness figures are based on a 10% weight/volume dilution..." could be expanded upon or removed entirely to save confusion, so we'll have a look at that, but here's the long-winded explanation:

Thanks for clearing that up. It was confusing but the explanation makes sense of it. Maybe just needs something like, "When we're measuring EBC/IBU prior to release, we use the weight because our quoted colour/bitterness figures are based on a 10% weight/volume dilution" which would separate it from what we need to know for our brews.

So given I've been doing my head in to try to understand how the SS works, now I have a decent basis to rework the formulas as needed.

I do still have an issue that for the plain Diablo and Real Ale recipes provided in the Coopers Recipe SS, which are taken direct from the site I think, I can't yet get the Beer Designer SS to match the figures given - I get close though, with maybe 3 points on both.  And I doubt I could taste 3 points of difference...  

[iBooz2]

17 hours ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

I think that I am getting this @Journeyman and @Coopers DIY Beer Team.

Sounds like I should go and adjust the formulae in my IanH spreadsheet.

We had some discussions re the IanH spreadsheet errors a couple of years back when I picked up it may not be calculating correctly and started a thread on it.  See if I can find it as it may be relevant.  EDIT: so I don't derail this thread its over here.

Edited August 17, 2021 by iBooz2

[Pezzza]

Brew day from the weekend... started out a TOP Clone but added Choc a bit late in mash think will achieve nice strong brown ale with teeth ; )

[Pezzza]

On 8/15/2021 at 11:14 AM, Greeny1525229549 said:

Doing a sapporo rice lager today.

Sorry to bog you on this @Greeny1525229549 Greeny but do you cook the rice before you toss into the mash w malted grain?

[Greenyinthewestofsydney]

12 minutes ago, Graubart said:

Sorry to bog you on this @Greeny1525229549 Greeny but do you cook the rice before you toss into the mash w malted grain?

Hey mate. I put it in my robobrew with 15L of water and 100 or so grams of the malt at 72c. Hold it for 20 min. Then bring it up to almost boiling for 30mins or so. The rice will be cooked through by then. Then I add the rest of the water which gets it back into the 60s and when its at the mash temp add the rest of the pilsener malt for the normal mash. Makes for a long brew day but it works well.

[Pezzza]

4 minutes ago, Greeny1525229549 said:

Hey mate. I put it in my robobrew with 15L of water and 100 or so grams of the malt at 72c. Hold it for 20 min. Then bring it up to almost boiling for 30mins or so. The rice will be cooked through by then. Then I add the rest of the water which gets it back into the 60s and when its at the mash temp add the rest of the pilsener malt for the normal mash. Makes for a long brew day but it works well.

D'you think I could just rice-cooker cook it prior to begin of brew day and then throw it in with the other malts at the start of the mash?

[Greenyinthewestofsydney]

51 minutes ago, Graubart said:

D'you think I could just rice-cooker cook it prior to begin of brew day and then throw it in with the other malts at the start of the mash?

Haven't tried that mate but I don't see why it wouldn't work. I have heard of others just cooking it and throwing it in. Might need a decent size rice cooker though

[Hairy]

Another lockdown brew day. I can see plenty more coming.

An easy drinking pale ale:

4.5kg American Ale Malt

250g Munich malt

250g Wheat malt

Mash at 65°C

7g Warrior @ 60 min

25g Azacca @ Whirlpool

25g Brooklyn @ Whirlpool

30g Azacca and 30g Brooklyn - dry hop

38 IBUs

23 litres

Lalleland Verdant IPA yeast

[Shamus O'Sean]

Strong Berliner Weisse - Miami Weisse - Recipe borrowed from Kegland

@Green Blob, I was going to ferment this at 30°C, but chickened out.  Going with 25°C.

Brewed and pitched yesterday, chugging along nicely today.

[RDT2]

I put down a….. oh sh#t I mean I didn’t do a larger today, I did an ale instead  (What gets on your wick)

But seriously can’t wait for this one, I think one or two points down which is probably good anyway cause I need a session beer, first time using enigma smelt so good Beautiful day in Perth today so took the for a w (shhhh walk) while mashing. Can’t say it too loud or I’m goin again

[RDT2]

Just now, RDT2 said:

I put down a….. oh sh#t I mean I didn’t do a larger today, I did an ale instead  (What gets on your wick)

But seriously can’t wait for this one, I think one or two points down which is probably good anyway cause I need a session beer, first time using enigma smelt so good Beautiful day in Perth today so took the for a w (shhhh walk) while mashing. Can’t say it too loud or I’m goin again

Will do a dry hop as well Enigma/Galaxy 2/1.

[BlackSands]

Drum roll...  I just brewed my FIRST EVER American IPA!   

...a simple 12 litre stove-top AG batch: 

• 2kg GF Ale Malt
• 600g GF Munich Malt
• 200g GF Sour Grapes
• 200g GF Wheat
• 20g Pacifica @ 35mins
• 25g Riwaka @10mins
• 12g each Riwaka & Wai-iti @post FO
• 38g Wai-iti & 13g Riwaka - full duration DH
• Kveik Voss

Cooking this one at 35ºC  

Edited August 26, 2021 by BlackSands

[Tone boy]

1 hour ago, BlackSands said:

Drum roll...  I just brewed my FIRST EVER American IPA!   

...a simple 12 litre stove-top AG batch: 

• 2kg GF Ale Malt
• 600g GF Munich Malt
• 200g GF Sour Grapes
• 200g GF Wheat
• 20g Pacifica @ 35mins
• 25g Riwaka @10mins
• 12g each Riwaka & Wai-iti @post FO
• 38g Wai-iti & 13g Riwaka - full duration DH
• Kveik Voss

Cooking this one at 35ºC  

That’s an NZ IPA I reckon

[BlackSands]

1 hour ago, Tone boy said:

That’s an NZ IPA I reckon

Yes it is!  I guess I should have said "American-style" IPA