Yeast Thread 2021

[Tricky Micky]

19 hours ago, jamiek86 said:

@Graubart when i was just a newbie on this forum before doing my first proper lager at cooler temps i mentioned the eggy smell i had read about and had once before. There were very few responses from others to say had had same thing apart from otto said maby once or twice and he brews them all time. The last 5 pilsner/lagers i have done every single one has had it until after a few days of d rest.  All have had either coopers lager yeast s-189 or good old dubbya all same smell mate and all have tasted fantastic in keg with no off taste or smell remaining. Some brewed on 14 some on 16 all same smell. even a couple of pale ales with hybrid yeast half ale hale lager have had faint egg smell but nothing like full blown lager yeast 2 packs or so.

Hey Jamie, same same. I've done about 10 lagers now and pretty much all of them have had the "eggy" smell. Used 34/70 Dubbya exclusively.  Not one batch has had off taste or aroma once second ferment has finished. I've done about 5 ales now with Nott US-05 and Coopers kit yeast and they don't have the same eggs smell during primary.

[Pezzza]

On 3/1/2021 at 9:40 AM, Mickep said:

pretty much all of them have had the "eggy" smell. Used 34/70 Dubbya exclusively.  Not one batch has had off taste or aroma once second ferment has finished.

Thanks MEP - beaut - thanks for the good feedback mate... Yeah Dubbya 34 is the one and it really cranked out the Sulphurous odours for me big time... and pretty much first time for such a big festy smelly effort ; )  That baby is down to 1009 now up at 20 deg and things have calmed down radically and now am just getting the regular malty beer smells...  will let sit for a few days and then come back down slowly for Yeast Cleanup... and then chill for clarity for a few days as well... nice to hear of your experience @Mickep mate... should be good.  Tho maybe a bit stiff at 7% plus on the Richter Scale 

I think I rushed my last lagery beer - so am taking me time with this one - and am hoping for a beaut.  Will keg and condition for a good few weeks as well and crack after Easter some time 

Edited March 2, 2021 by Graubart

[Tricky Micky]

On 3/2/2021 at 12:50 PM, Graubart said:

I think I rushed my last lagery beer - so am taking me time with this one - and am hoping for a beaut.  Will keg and condition for a good few weeks as well and crack after Easter some time 

I've been meaning to lager my lagers but I get too impatient. Damn my impulsive ways. I'll get around to Lagering a few batches when I've got a few Ale batches stored up and  waiting in the wings

[Tone boy]

3 hours ago, Mickep said:

I've been meaning to lager my lagers but I get too impatient.

 

Yes me too @Mickep I’d like to lager my lagers too but I don’t have a fridge to store them in. So I’m stuck with storing them in the house at ambient temp. No idea if that detracts from the taste at all...

[Pezzza]

45 minutes ago, Tone boy said:

Yes me too @Mickep I’d like to lager my lagers too but I don’t have a fridge to store them in. So I’m stuck with storing them in the house at ambient temp. No idea if that detracts from the taste at all...

I do believe cold is better... but if it was 18-low 20s probs ok...

Not so sure 27+ would be terribly good for it... but I don't have too much hard evidence... 

We brew PFVs at warmer temps - and get away with it cos it's under pressure - so maybe having the brew under pressure keeps it safe even if a bit warmer?  Dunno...

As long as it taste ok hey?  

I do reckon tho a three month stint (just happened to have right fridge space) for some of my bottled AG Lagery Brews - at 3 degrees - came up v v naaars a cuppla years ago ; )

Seemed to mellow them and somehow bring the flavours together into something lovely and smooth and clear... but it also might just have been a stinkin' hot summer with a fridge full of beer that seemed to be delivering beautiful things 

Edited March 3, 2021 by Graubart

[Tone boy]

Hey thanks @Graubart  Yes I’ve read to store cold, but if you’ve got no choice then what can you do eh?? I store them in the “middle room” of the house which stays around 21 over summer and about 17 over winter so no real extremes there. 

Im going to try and restrain my desires and hold out for 3 months to see how they go. I have noticed the lagers I did last year did improve with age, so....

And I’ve got a couple of ale brews in the bank so that’ll help. 
I’ve also put some lager bottles in the fridge so hopefully I can do a side by side comparison in 3 months time. I’ll report my findings for the benefit of humanity naturally . All in the name of research you understand

1 hour ago, Graubart said:

but it also might just have been a stinkin' hot summer with a fridge full of beer that seemed to be delivering beautiful things 

There is that point of view too!!!

luv ur work
Thanks for your advice. Cheers brother

[Greenyinthewestofsydney]

2 hours ago, Tone boy said:

 

Yes me too @Mickep I’d like to lager my lagers too but I don’t have a fridge to store them in. So I’m stuck with storing them in the house at ambient temp. No idea if that detracts from the taste at all...

Do what I did mate. Looked on gumtree. Got the person to give me the measurements and it was sweet to lager 2 kegs. Picked it up on the way home and got it into the garage. Missus gets home and what the %$%$%^%&%*. You now have 3 fridges for beer and we have 1 fridge for food ???  Copped some heat for a couple of days and then all was forgiven.. sweet!!!

Edited March 3, 2021 by Greeny1525229549

[Tone boy]

Well played @Greeny1525229549. Yeah I’ve already got 2 fridges and a freezer in the garage so not too sure I’d be as lucky as you. And I’ve run out of power points

Actually the more I think about it the keener I am to do a side by side comparison. Cold stored lager vs ambient stored lager.

I guess it’s already been done but I haven’t seen any results...

I hope to get into kegging one day like some of you guys, but will stick with bottles for now.

Cheers Greeny

 

[Pezzza]

1 hour ago, Tone boy said:

Actually the more I think about it the keener I am to do a side by side comparison. Cold stored lager vs ambient stored lager.

I guess it’s already been done but I haven’t seen any results...

I hope to get into kegging one day like some of you guys, but will stick with bottles for now.

Hey TB - absolutely mate - do the comparison - with a few samples of course not just one  - no seriously - over a few different days - and tell us what you find... cold stored vs good cool ambient temp stored... am really interested... by the sounds of it you have lovely ambient temps... 17-21 as far as I can see is a beautiful thing!

And as for kegs and bottles - mate good beer tastes great in bottles... and I sorta think that with Hefeweizen it actually is better in the bottle!

And I think @Greeny1525229549 Greeny - some of your festive Belgians are the same aren't they - better in the bottle?

Anyway... I did kegs in the end cos I could... and was easier than bottling - but my beer qual in bottles was just fine.  And was more portable. 

So just keep on brewing mate and don't worry about the beverage container issue for the time being ; )

If you can I would suggest that glass is a bit nicer than plazzi and Coopers Largies are gold (apologies if already said this before somewhere to you mate)

Cheers 

[Pezzza]

But now... a question for all you Yeast Kings and festive Brewers at Large...

Any opinion re pitching Dry Yeast into the froth on top of a wort - after oxygenation shaking - good bad or ugly?  Or indifferent?

Rather than waiting around for a "free liquid surface" type flat watery surface - and not froth?

Just wondering... was gunna make a vitality starter and am waiting for the froth to subside - and am wondering - could I just sprinkle straight onto the froth - or might that accentuate the osmotic shock stuff they talk about that is overcome via rehydrating.... which I am not keen on re extra work and infection possibility....

Any takers - would really appreciate any help or suggestions!

Cheers Brewers 

It's not quite as extreme as the below seen in its earlier oxygenation-shaking state ; )

[Lettucegrove]

17 minutes ago, Graubart said:

pitching Dry Yeast into the froth on top of a wort

I have done this a few times and did not encounter any problems. The beer turned out fine. I would of been using us05....if that is even relevant.

Edited March 3, 2021 by Lettucegrove

[Popo the Reprobate]

I pour from a cube so always have froth on top. I used to siphon in which left very little froth. Anecdotally, I have never noticed a problem or a difference between the two.  I swirl the fermenter around for a bit to make sure the yeast starts to make its way down into the wort though.

Hardly scientific but it has worked for me.

[Shamus O'Sean]

10 hours ago, Graubart said:

Any opinion re pitching Dry Yeast into the froth on top of a wort - after oxygenation shaking - good bad or ugly?  Or indifferent?

I rehydrate which avoids this issue.  But I do not rehydrate to avoid the issue, I rehydrate because the Brew Father yeast calculator says that dry pitching reduces the cell count by about 20%.  Why go to the trouble of doing a starter to grow more yeast cells, but penalise the process by dry pitching?  Two steps forward, but one step back.  I get that the extra process introduces extra infection risk. but if you follow good sanitisation processes it will be fine.

At the same time, I guess I could just buy two packets of yeast and save all the headaches and risk.  I am also a cheapskate and I like the process of doing starters too.  Cricky, if I wanted easy beer there is always Dan's.

[Tricky Micky]

15 hours ago, Tone boy said:

18 hours ago, Mickep said:

I've been meaning to lager my lagers but I get too impatient.

 

Yes me too @Mickep I’d like to lager my lagers too but I don’t have a fridge to store them in. So I’m stuck with storing them in the house at ambient temp. No idea if that detracts from the taste at all...

I don't have an extra fridge either TB, so it makes it impossible to lager my brews. I think time in the bottle is the key as I've noticed a dramatic difference in taste between the early drinkers and the bottles which have sat for 4 or more weeks. 

[Pezzza]

Thanks @Popo, @Shamus O'Sean and @Lettucegrove much appreciated - great to get some practical experience feedback!

It was getting late last night and I desperately wanted to head off for a snooze so in the end I pitched in say an inch of foam... but then sterilised a spoon and stirred it in... then went off for a tub and gave it a bit of a swirly whirly gentle shake a little while later on... and this is what it looks like this morning just a bit below 22 deg

So everything seems to have worked out with a reasonably healthy looking Munich Classic Vitality Starter which will be pitched shortly 

@Shamus O'Sean Shamus I am with you not wanting pay more for yeast... but there seems to be this ongoing debate between sprinkle and re-hydrate (I think Christina @ChristinaS1 has been monitoring this Christina?) ... so partly laziness and partly risk of infection with one more added step... am becoming more of a sprinkler ; )

[Pezzza]

8 minutes ago, Mickep said:

I don't have an extra fridge either TB, so it makes it impossible to lager my brews. I think time in the bottle is the key as I've noticed a dramatic difference in taste between the early drinkers and the bottles which have sat for 4 or more weeks. 

Good stuff Mick... and @Tone boy Toner has really good ambient Temps too.... 17-21 so I reckon they would be great for letting the bottles condition and the lovely flavours develop and meld into a taschty taschty brew haha! 

[Pezzza]

11 hours ago, Lettucegrove said:

if that is even relevant.

Absolutely relevant it is Lettuce... in context of this discussion it is just another Dry Yeast like my Munich Classic Dry Yeast ; )

And I too am a big fan of the ol' much maligned 'bland' and enormously reliable US05 Wooohoooo go US05!?! 

I mean check out this lovely Amber Ale... all the hard work done in 7 days and now floccing out like a well behaved yeasty which it is:

[ChristinaS1]

Hey @Graubart Sorry, have not been monitoring the thread but just did a quick read. I used to be a believer in rehydrating yeast, as at the time Lallemand, Fermentis, and Mangrove Jack all recommended it. About the only outfit that didn't was Coopers! They have always recommended sprinkling. But over the years I read more and more reports of sprinkling resulting in beer that was just as good, and then yeast manufacturers, one after the other started to say it was okay to sprinkle. It seems that while fewer cells survive rehydration in wort (vs water) it doesn't make a practical difference. Anyway, I gave sprinklig a try and did not notice a difference, so then I kept doing it. Sprinkling lowers the risk of infection.

I have not found sprinkling onto froth has a negative effect. I don't stir it in. I figure there is more surface area in a froth bubble, so maybe there is more oxygen, which makes me think rehydrating on the froth is better for the yeast than stirring the into the wort, but I have no evidence to support this. It is just a hunch.

They only time I would consider rehydrating yeast is if I was making a high gravity beer (never going to happen) or if I had to pitch more yeast into a stuck brew, the former because of high osmotic pressure and the later because of the presence of alcohol. 

As for making vitality starters with dry yeast my practice now is to sprinkle onto the starter wort and then wait with shaking for 15-20 minutes, to give the yeast time to rehydrate prior to subjecting them to shear forces, rather than rehydrating in water before adding to the wort (which is what I used to do). 

Cheers,

Christina.

Edited March 4, 2021 by ChristinaS1

[Hairy]

27 minutes ago, ChristinaS1 said:

I have not found sprinkling onto froth has a negative effect. I don't stir it in. I figure there is more surface area in a froth bubble, so maybe there is more oxygen, which makes me think rehydrating on the froth is better for the yeast than stirring the into the wort, but I have no evidence to support this. It is just a hunch.

I gave up rehydrating a few years ago. 

It's interesting about the froth. I used to just sprinkle it on top of the foam and there was always a lot of foam. For my last few brews I have half filled the fermenter from the cube, sprinkled the yeast and then poured in the rest.

I haven't noticed a difference either way in the end result but I really don't monitor my beers enough in the early stages. Sometimes I forget it's there and don't check it for a few days after pitching. Which reminds me, I put a beer down on Tuesday and I haven't checked it again yet.

[ChristinaS1]

2 minutes ago, Hairy said:

....I really don't monitor my beers enough in the early stages. Sometimes I forget it's there and don't check it for a few days after pitching. Which reminds me, I put a beer down on Tuesday and I haven't checked it again yet.

That is probably the best way to brew Hairy. Just trust the yeast do their thing. 

Cheers,

Christina.

[Shamus O'Sean]

12 hours ago, Graubart said:

This is the yeast I did a starter with last weekend.  I did it more with the intent to harvest part of the starter for a future full batch.  But this weekend, the plan is to do a Hefeweizen.  Brew up a 20L batch, split in half into 2 craft FV's.  Pitch the Munich Classic (after I remove the harvested volume) into 1 and WB-06 into the other.  Brew side by side to see what happens. Gonna try 18°C for 2 days then 21°C for 5 days.

[stquinto]

Quick question fellas - I have a Capital Pils at the end of fermentation and I chucked in some finings (don't have the kit to cold crash here) to clear it up before bottling. Can I still use the slurry even if it has the finings in it (according to the packet it's a chitosan solution: crustacean and sulphites - so prawn guts I suppose) ?

Cheers !

[ChristinaS1]

37 minutes ago, stquinto said:

Quick question fellas - I have a Capital Pils at the end of fermentation and I chucked in some finings (don't have the kit to cold crash here) to clear it up before bottling. Can I still use the slurry even if it has the finings in it (according to the packet it's a chitosan solution: crustacean and sulphites - so prawn guts I suppose) ?

Cheers !

Several years ago I tried using chitosan in beer a couple of times, to help drop out commando hops without cold crashing, but I did not save the slurry, so I can't answer your question. While the version you are using contains sulphite, the amount in there is likely just enough to inhibit yeast in the package, not enough to inhibit yeast in a 23L batch of fermented product. But that is just a guess. 

Personally I was a bit disappointed with the performance of chitosan in terms of dropping out commando hops. I later switched to containing the hops in something. 

Even though gelatine is supposed to be used at cold temperatures, some on the forum have tried it at ambient temp and say it still works fairly well, although less well than at cold temps. I have not tried it at ambient temps myself but there is another option for you to consider.

Cheers,

Christina.

PS I use gelatine at cold temps and find it works great. I also use slurry that has gelatine in it without a problem. 

Edited March 4, 2021 by ChristinaS1

[stquinto]

@ChristinaS1 thanks for your reply ChristinaS1 I'll keep some over and give it a try. I'll let you know how the chitosan works on this brew.

I'll change my greeting to "fellow brewers"  whilst I'm at it 

 

[ChristinaS1]

1 minute ago, stquinto said:

I'll change my greeting to "fellow brewers"  whilst I'm at it 

Much appreciated!