Yeast Thread 2021

[RDT2]

53 minutes ago, stquinto said:

@RDT2I don't know that one either mate. I have tried the WY1388 but it stalled on me. I didn't listen to @Greeny1525229549, @Shamus O'Sean or @ChristinaS1 who suggested making a proper starter : no good getting decent advice if you don't take it  

I ended up throwing in a half-pack of MJ49, which was the only Belgian style yeast I had at the time. @Greeny1525229549 recommended MJ41 as an alternative to WY1388 but I didn't have one to hand.

It turned out OK but with some funky tropical fruit notes , not what I was aiming for but quite pleasant all the same.

I found this link :

https://byo.com/article/yeast-strains-for-belgian-strong-ales/

Achouffe — Wyeast 3522 (Belgian Ardennes) and White Labs WLP550 (Belgian Ale)

Chimay — Wyeast 1214 (Belgian Ale) and White Labs WLP500 (Trappist Ale)

Du Bocq (Corsendonk) — Wyeast 3538 (Leuven Pale Ale)

Duvel Moortgat — Wyeast 1388 (Belgian Strong Ale) and White Labs WLP570 (Belgian Golden Ale)

Rochefort — Wyeast 1762 (Belgian Abbey II) and White Labs WLP540 (Belgian Abbey IV)

Orval — White Labs WLP510 (Bastogne Belgain Ale)

Unibroue — Wyeast 3864 (Canadian/Belgian)

Westmalle — Wyeast 3787 (Trappist High Gravity) and White Labs WLP530 (Abbey Ale)

 

I quite like Orval myself - I have bought a cuppla cases of it with the case to keep and use the bottles. I like all of those Belgian ales. Bit on the hefty side, and not easy to clone so far. I have done an acceptable version of Chimay Blue, and I also did one but went a bit overboard on the dark malt extract and it really knocked you out - 9 volts and all that ...

Good luck with it !

 

Cheers for the info I hear everyone talkin about Belgium beers so I thought why not. I tried Chimay blue once didn’t think much of it I reckon it was old due to not much turn over. Then one of neighbours had what I think were a Trappist beer at 10% he said he was sick of them and have them to me. I was a bit hesitant before drinking but wow what a beer with notes of bubblegum or banana and no alcohol taste just amazing. I only drank two and half of the three as I had work the next day So that kind of confirmed to me the chimay was old.

[Barramullafella]

I found this and thought it may be of assistance.

Yeast Pitch Rate and Starter Calculator | Brewer's Friend (brewersfriend.com)

[Greenyinthewestofsydney]

9 hours ago, RDT2 said:

Cheers that would be greatly appreciated

Yeah start low finish high as expected. Orval tends to start there's very low though which is interesting. 

[Pezzza]

1 hour ago, Greeny1525229549 said:

Orval tends to start there's very low though which is interesting. 

@Greeny1525229549 Greeny mate do you know much about Lallemand Verdant?   (OR Any other of you Yeast Masters )

My dry pitch has gone from 1057 to 1012 in four days at around 19 deg C.... am wondering whether I am likely to be near completion as I have never used this one before...  Lalleys 'Race Guide' say usually 5 days at 20... 

And it was a raging inferno for a cuppla days... 

Just would be good to keg this evening in prep for a Visitation tomorrow... 

Edited June 26, 2021 by Graubart

[Greenyinthewestofsydney]

32 minutes ago, Graubart said:

@Greeny1525229549 Greeny mate do you know much about Lallemand Verdant?   (OR Any other of you Yeast Masters )

My dry pitch has gone from 1057 to 1012 in four days at around 19 deg C.... am wondering whether I am likely to be near completion as I have never used this one before...  Lalleys 'Race Guide' say usually 5 days at 20... 

And it was a raging inferno for a cuppla days... 

Just would be good to keg this evening in prep for a Visitation tomorrow... 

Used it a couple of times mate and I have to say.

It is the shit!!!

My favourite American pale ale and IPA yeasts were WY1272 American Ale and MJ new world strong. After using it twice I think it shits all over any other pale ale yeast I have used. The last batch I did was a split batch with the exact same dry hop and it was like it had double the hops that the new world strong had. Amazing!!!

From memory both times I used it finished a touch higher than my normal pale ales. 1012 to 1014. I'd say yours is done.

[Pezzza]

1 hour ago, Greeny1525229549 said:

The last batch I did was a split batch with the exact same dry hop and it was like it had double the hops that the new world strong had. Amazing!!!

Gold that is good news Greeny @Greeny1525229549.

Thanks very much mate that's great feedback.  Glad you think it's the Biz - will capture some yeast for future use!!

Me NEIPA/Hazy local expert @Norris! also reckons I might be right to get away with kegging still today (thanks Norris)... so think I will keg-on-up this evening... harvest the slurry and then crank the Gas on overnight

 

 

[RDT2]

8 minutes ago, Graubart said:

Gold that is good news Greeny @Greeny1525229549.

Thanks very much mate that's great feedback.  Glad you think it's the Biz - will capture some yeast for future use!!

Me NEIPA/Hazy local expert @Norris! also reckons I might be right to get away with kegging still today (thanks Norris)... so think I will keg-on-up this evening... harvest the slurry and then crank the Gas on overnight

 

 

I am about to try my beer with Verdant in it @Graubart it smells awesome and tastes good prior to carbonation. It seemed to ferment quite quickly as well.

[Norris!]

I had the same experience with Hophead yeast,it really made the hops sing.

[Red devil 44]

Got myself a nice little supply of yeast now, never used Lallemand before but keen to give it a crack, better go to the recipe page and start to plan

Cheers to Alex from Cheap Yeast for my Lallemand

[Classic Brewing Co]

1 hour ago, Red devil 44 said:

Got myself a nice little supply of yeast now, never used Lallemand before but keen to give it a crack, better go to the recipe page and start to plan

Cheers to Alex from Cheap Yeast for my Lallemand

Nice selection @Red devil 44  good to see them in the fridge, I still can't get my head around some people don't bother to store it that way, after all it plays a very important part in your brew.

[ben 10]

On 5/5/2021 at 5:26 PM, Green Blob said:

 

 

Well first beer with that and I am a big fan... Makes a Hazy NEIPA without any dry hops... WTF???

[RDT2]

1 hour ago, Green Blob said:

Well first beer with that and I am a big fan... Makes a Hazy NEIPA without any dry hops... WTF???

@Norris! ????? 

[Greenyinthewestofsydney]

1 hour ago, Green Blob said:

Well first beer with that and I am a big fan... Makes a Hazy NEIPA without any dry hops... WTF???

Have a pack in the fridge not used. Should do a side by side with verdant I think. 

[ChristinaS1]

On 5/5/2021 at 4:26 AM, Green Blob said:

 

Interesting

Sounds like rather than the enzyme being produced by the yeast they are supplementing it with exogenous enzymes, maybe "Aromazyme." https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/en/united-states/aromazyme/

Some yeast strains, for example BRY-97 and M44 (which have the same source), New England, Verdant, and Voss strains, produce endogenous b-glucosidaise, which leads to more linalool.

I wonder what yeast Mangrove Jacks are using for their base yeast in M66. Did you see a long lag time @Green Blob? That might suggest it is M44. But if they are adding exogenous enzymes, I suppose they could use any yeast they wanted to for their base; they would not have to be limited to one that naturally produces b-glucosidaise. 

Here is an article from Lallemand talking about biotransformation https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/en/united-states/blog/enzymes-in-biotransformation/

I had not heard of b-lyze before, which produces tropical notes.  It is not a component of Aromazyme, which appears to be b-glucosidase only, but perhaps it is a product they are working on.

Cheers,

Christina. 

[ChristinaS1]

On 5/11/2021 at 3:34 AM, Norris! said:

The enzyme are what I am wondering about in the Hophead.

Probably Aromazyme (see above post). Interestingly Lallemand are marketing Aromazyme as a way of making fruity beers using cheaper hops. 

Cheers,

Christina.

[Pezzza]

24 minutes ago, ChristinaS1 said:

"Sounds like rather than the enzyme being produced by the yeast they are supplementing.....I had not heard of b-lyze before, which produces tropical notes.  It is not a component of Aromazyme, which appears to be b-glucosidase only..."

Wow what a great analysis Christina...  you never fail to amaze me with your brewsci knowledge.... and the Brewers I have recommended to look at your Partial Brews have not been disappointed... cool

[Norris!]

I think @ChristinaS1
Is spot on.

1 hour ago, RDT2 said:

@Norris! ????? 

Hahaha, I see what you are getting at. My interpretation of a NEIPA is something that is hop forward and juicy. Blob's beer has 8g/L in the whirlpool, which will make it juicier and have more aroma.

My comments on the dry hop was more to focus on the lack of hops which would take away from the juicy and tropical characteristics found in a NEIPA. Blob's massive whirlpool will carry over to a big aroma and flavour that is juicy while an APA would be still hoppy but not as juicy. But I was still wrong to say it HAD to have 2 dry hops. That isn't a requirement, but juiciness is.

I Think he should drop the 60 min addition for more hops in the whirlpool or cube is my only thoughts on it, more bang for the buck and greater utilisation of ingredients. 

The haze comes from the polyphenols in the hops, long boils removes those.  Other adjuncts help but haze from adjuncts isn't as tasty or smell as good as haze from hops, imo. These are guielines for a NEIPA, they are new.

https://dev.bjcp.org/beer-styles/21b-specialty-ipa-new-england-ipa/

[Norris!]

41 minutes ago, ChristinaS1 said:

Probably Aromazyme (see above post). Interestingly Lallemand are marketing Aromazyme as a way of making fruity beers using cheaper hops. 

Cheers,

Christina.

I think Hophead is New England Yeast with the enzyme added but who knows. I have seen that, as your above Post noted I think that could be the case, that added on with the yeast.

I think the more they experiment the more we will see how to use hops better and extract everything from them. There was a time that brewers would bet their mortgage payment that a 30-15 minutes was flavour territory and you had to have a 60 minute boil but as with anything the more information comes available the more we learn. 

[Shamus O'Sean]

1 hour ago, Greeny1525229549 said:

Have a pack in the fridge not used. Should do a side by side with verdant I think. 

Sounds like an interesting idea.

I used Verdant yeast in the Bright Idea Hazy IPA recipe.  It was hazy and juicy to the last glass from the keg.

Planning to use it in an American Pale Ale in a couple of weeks and the Coopers Australian IPA after that.

[RDT2]

1 hour ago, Norris! said:

I think @ChristinaS1
Is spot on.

Hahaha, I see what you are getting at. My interpretation of a NEIPA is something that is hop forward and juicy. Blob's beer has 8g/L in the whirlpool, which will make it juicier and have more aroma.

I was just kidding, won’t be long with these fancy yeasts won’t need hops

[ChristinaS1]

2 hours ago, RDT2 said:

I was just kidding, won’t be long with these fancy yeasts won’t need hops

If they can they will.  Aspergillus niger and yeast are cheaper than hops.

Hop farmers could be looking for a new jobs. 

 

 

[ChristinaS1]

5 hours ago, Norris! said:

I think Hophead is New England Yeast with the enzyme added but who knows.

New England yeast? That would make sense but Mangrove Jack's has not had a New England style yeast to date. 

Hophead specs say it has "medium" (74-82%) attenuation and "high" (4/5) flocculation. I just went through all of Mangrove Jack's other yeasts and none of them has that combination. 

My next thought was maybe they are repackaging Lallemand New England yeast, since they are getting the enzymes from them already. But Lallemand describe their New England yeast as having "medium to high" attenuation, and "medium" flocculation. So maybe it is a new yeast from MJ's.

Cheers,

Christina.

Edited June 26, 2021 by ChristinaS1

[ben 10]

7 hours ago, ChristinaS1 said:

Did you see a long lag time @Green Blob?

Visible action now, pitched just before I posted last night, so not the lag that M44 has - I only used that a few times and stopped for that very reason.

[Barramullafella]

I used the yeast calculator and got the figure of 11gm of dried yeast required for the 23lt brew. Yet, Coopers [and others] only supply a 7gm packet of yeast for the 1.7kg can + 1kg BE, or brewing sugar etc.  Does anyone know why it is only 7gm supplied and not around the 11gm as per calc's ?

[Classic Brewing Co]

6 minutes ago, Barramullafella said:

I used the yeast calculator and got the figure of 11gm of dried yeast required for the 23lt brew. Yet, Coopers [and others] only supply a 7gm packet of yeast for the 1.7kg can + 1kg BE, or brewing sugar etc.  Does anyone know why it is only 7gm supplied and not around the 11gm as per calc's ?

I am only guessing but I would say it is probably aimed at a novice or lets say average person who wants to make a basic brew, cost could come in to it but I do agree with you the supplied yeasts will do the job but you really need more. I have used 2 packs on a few occasions & the only real difference is a more active krausen & particularly a larger yeast deposit in the bottom of the FV.