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Yeast Thread 2021


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3 hours ago, ChristinaS1 said:

New England yeast? That would make sense but Mangrove Jack's has not had a New England style yeast to date. 

Hophead specs say it has "medium" (74-82%) attenuation and "high" (4/5) flocculation. I just went through all of Mangrove Jack's other yeasts and none of them has that combination. 

My next thought was maybe they are repackaging Lallemand New England yeast, since they are getting the enzymes from them already. But Lallemand describe their New England yeast as having "medium to high" attenuation, and "medium" flocculation. So maybe it is a new yeast from MJ's.

Cheers,

Christina.

I think it is repackaged, I would be surprised if they were making yeasts when they repackage everything.

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1 hour ago, Barramullafella said:

I used the yeast calculator and got the figure of 11gm of dried yeast required for the 23lt brew. Yet, Coopers [and others] only supply a 7gm packet of yeast for the 1.7kg can + 1kg BE, or brewing sugar etc.  Does anyone know why it is only 7gm supplied and not around the 11gm as per calc's ?

Because the Brew Enhancers contain dextrose. BE1 is 60%, BE2 50%, BE3 30%. Dextrose is easier for yeast to ferment as it does not have to be cleaved.

Yeast calculators assume you are doing all malt brewing. You will notice that most third party packages contain 10-11g of yeast. 

BE1 has no DME, BE2 is 25%, BE3 is 50%. 

Cheers,

Christina.

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3 hours ago, Norris! said:

I think it is repackaged, I would be surprised if they were making yeasts when they repackage everything.

You could be right. I have read speculation about that....

My own theory is that they start with dry yeast from other (various) manufacturers, re-pitch them for a number of generations until they mutate slightly, then stabilize the mutation (submit it to the Siebel Institute yeast bank) and it call it theirs. I don't remember how I came up with this theory, as it was years ago. I think it is based on reading between the lines of a number of things they have said.

My second theory is that they just blend third party yeasts together and repackage them.

Cheers,

Christina.

Edited by ChristinaS1
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12 hours ago, CLASSIC said:

I am only guessing but I would say it is probably aimed at a novice or lets say average person who wants to make a basic brew, cost could come in to it but I do agree with you the supplied yeasts will do the job but you really need more. I have used 2 packs on a few occasions & the only real difference is a more active krausen & particularly a larger yeast deposit in the bottom of the FV.

@Barramullafella Classic has got it right: the kits are aimed at cost conscious beginners who are just happy to produce beer. If you use anything more than 500g of DME in a brew,  (don't forget to include the DME in the BE in your calculation, if you are using one) you will need more yeast....You will hear stories of people successfully brewing a Coopers kit with 1kg of DME and the kit yeast, but Coopers dry yeast is more vigorous than most, and Coopers are also a little more generous with yeast than other manufacturers. Coopers provide 7g, but they are alone in that. Most other kit manufacturers only provide 5-6g.

I regularly pitch two 7g packages of Coopers yeast in my brews and save some "sloppy slurry" from the bottom of the fermenter (just tip some directly from the fermenter into a sanitized glass jar) to ferment the next batch. If you are not storing the yeast for long you only need about 1/4 cup of sloppy slurry to ferment an average gravity wort. This works well for the most part but does carry a small risk of carrying forward infection, if your if your first batch is contaminated and you don't realize it before reusing the yeast....If you don't want to run the risk of contaminating your next batch you can buy a packet of third party yeast for your second batch. 

Brews that are under-pitched can stall, or have off flavours. Brews that have enough yeast will taste cleaner. 

Cheers,

Christina.

Edited by ChristinaS1
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On 6/26/2021 at 8:42 AM, ChristinaS1 said:

I had not heard of b-lyze before, which produces tropical notes.  It is not a component of Aromazyme, which appears to be b-glucosidase only, but perhaps it is a product they are working on.

Now I am reading more comments about b-lyze. Apparently some yeast produce it, especially Verdant. Here is something from Lallemand, answering a question as to why one would chose Verdant over New England yeast, which is kind of intersting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNVWwSjIOEY Unfortunately the sound quality on the video is terrible. 

"The B-Lyase activity is higher in the Verdant IPA strain which is one difference with the NE which is lower but both have comparable/similar levels for B-Glucosidase activity. There are some key differences that will influence which to select; for example the attenuation is different and slightly lower for Verdant strain which contributes a smooth and balanced mouthfeel which is desired in some modern IPA styles whereas NE has a slightly higher attenuation. Crucially also is the flavour profile. Although they are both fruity they are distinct and unique; Verdant gives strong apricot and subtle vanilla note versus much more peachy and tropical fruit for NE. So really that it is down to a fundamental preference in the flavour profile and what you are wanting to achieve in the finished beer..... Or you could combine the two"

Cheers,

Christina.

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Very interested in trying Verdant and have a recipe designed and all set to go. Called my LHBS to see if they have it yet, but they don't 🙁 They do have Hophead yeast....

I am undecided about giving Hophead a try because I like re-pitching my the yeast a few times but with Hophead after one use the supplemental enzymes would be used up.  That makes it less appealing. Who knows what the yeast is like without the enzymes to help them out?

I might order another vial of WLP095 Burlington Ale yeast instead. It is great. 

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8 hours ago, ChristinaS1 said:

Very interested in trying Verdant and have a recipe designed and all set to go.

I think you will like it.  I used it in the Coopers recipe Bright Idea XPA back in February.  I did an overbuild starter for that brew.  I will be using the overbuild harvested cells in the an American Pale Ale in about 10 days and in the Coopers Australian IPA recipe after that. The viability from February will have dropped off so much that I am doing a two step starter for the APA (including an overbuild to harvest for the Coopers Aust IPA).  Lets see whether the reuses of this yeast affect it in any way.

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  • 2 weeks later...

First time I have used the WLP 007 Dry English Ale yeast and it certainly lives up to its 007 name as its a very secret service yeast.  No krausen at all maybe a couple of mm of bubbles on top and only way to really tell it was working was the condensation on lid of FV.  The SG started at 1.048 and dropped pretty quickly to 1.010 on BD+4, am expecting 1.008.  First 4 days of ferment were at 19 C as its listed temp range is 18.3 - 21.1 C

Anyone else had any experience with this secret agent yeast?

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On 6/27/2021 at 8:15 PM, ChristinaS1 said:

Brews that are under-pitched can stall, or have off flavours. Brews that have enough yeast will taste cleaner. 

Hi Christina, thanks for your posts in so much detail and consideration - which I appreciate greatly.

Just a quick couple of things... I have never used 2 packs of yeast... I have used starters and slurry... and do All Grain but also used to do kits... and never used two packs.

I also do quite high OG beers that seem to come through just fine.

Now what I don't know is - if I had used two packs - or a better sized starter - whether the beer would have been better?

I also must constrain my conversation around the fact that I largely only use W34/70 for Lagery-Pils type brews, US05 largely for all ales, and now Lally Munich Classic for Wheat.

I really don't think I have ever had any problems with off-tastes or stalled fermentation... with rainwater and in more recent times all All Grain.

That does not say that this will not happen.

And I have never done a controlled comparison.

I guess one thing I will say though is that if you have high OG beer and you do not aerate/oxygenate it properly I do believe that stalled ferments happen.   And that in general, a better oxygenated wort works better than one that is not so well oxygenated at pitch.

However, I seriously do not subscribe to the two-pack rule... and believe I have - with hopefully other good practices - been able to avoid the requirement for two packs of yeast in a higher OG beer.

But as above - I cannot say that had I used two packs - that my beer would have been better.

I guess all up I find yeast expensive and am trying to keep my costs down... and in general believe that one pack of good 11.5g good Dry Yeast will do the trick for most 23L brews and also into the higher say 1060 type SGs.

And btw yes the Verdant is a beaut. 

My Verdant IPA was 1057 and loaded with hops and I was a bit angry with myself I did not fit the K Collar as it had a minor over-flow with only around 17-18L... with pitch of one pack festive Lally Verdant Dry... at around 19degC - the night before the overflow... very healthy in a relatively high OG wort?

Would this have been better with two packs?

image.thumb.png.43da9862a41431d47e6fe3b8c88d5aee.png

 

 

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Hi @Graubart Wow, a lot of questions. Not sure I am qualified to answer some of them.

What does "quite high OG" mean?

Not sure there are any cookie cutter rules. My advice is to punch your OG and volume into a pitching rate calculator, to get a starting point, and keep careful notes. Yeast are all different, just like people. Over time / with experience you will and figure out what works for you, in your brewery, with the OGs you tend to make, with the yeast you tend to use. Sounds like you are already starting to do that. 👍

With pitching rate calculators you do have to make an assumption about how many billions of cells are in a gram of dry yeast. Coming off of the assembly line most dry yeasts are said to have around 20B cells per gram but it does vary, and it drops over time. Some pitching rate calculators, like Brewer's Friend, are very conservative and only assume 10B cells per gram. Personally I think that is too conservative. I usually increase that to 14B if it is a bit of a slow starter (ie US-05) and to 18B for an aggressive yeast that takes off fast (ie Coopers dry ale yeast, Nottingham). 

By all accounts Verdant yeast is a beast and you might be able to use what would be considered an under pitch in the case of most other yeasts. I have not yet had a chance to use Verdant but it sounds a lot like WLP095, Burlington Ale yeast, which I have used. It too is a beast, foaming like a volcano and making an insanely thick yeast cake. With these yeasts you are looking for esters, so under pitching a bit is better than over pitching.

I hear you about wanting to avoid using more than one pack of dry yeast per brew. For ale yeast what I would advise is making a brew with an OG ~1.048 with one pack and save slurry from the bottom for subsequent brews. You could easily get enough slurry for four average gravity brews and maybe three high OG brews from that first batch.

In the case of lagers, you could follow the same strategy but pitch at 18C and wait until it is active (~18hours) before dropping the temp to ~13C. If, for your next lager, you want to start fermenting cold (~13C), use about 500mL of slurry from the first batch. Because of the higher pitching rate required when starting cold you might only get enough slurry for two subsequent batches from the bottom of the fermenter of your first batch. 

In the case of dry yeast, or sloppy slurry, aeration is not required but does not hurt; aeration is advisable if you are making high OG brews. If you are using liquid yeast, starters and aeration are required. Good aeration is also required if you saving slurry from starters, or if you are rinsing the dead yeast out of slurry from the bottom of the fermenter. 

But these are just my opinions. They may be inaccurate, they may be wrong. Do your own research.  😄

Cheers,

Christina.

Edited by ChristinaS1
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Has anyone used the Lallemand Kolsch yeast?

I have tried it a couple of times in an AG Kolsch and Im getting quite fruity characteristics that I wasn't expecting.  Super clear beer, just a lot more fruity than any commercials I have tried.

 

Edited by Staggerinn
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1 hour ago, Staggerinn said:

Has anyone used the Lallemand Kolsch yeast?

I have tried it a couple of times in an AG Kolsch and Im getting quite fruity characteristics that I wasn't expecting.  Super clear beer, just a lot more fruity than any commercials I have tried.

 

Have not used the yeast but what temp were you fermenting at. A kolsch is usually done colder than a normal ale which mutes those fruity flavours. I usually do mine at 15 or 16c.

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Hi all,

Long time between posts....

I have a beer brewing in my temp controlled fridge and want to put another brew on however the LHBS hasn't got any Kviek yeast.

If putting together a coopers K&K would it be better to use the US-05 I usually use when in my fridge ? Or use the tin yeast?

The temp here is basically 25-30c.

Also, given the temp would it be better to do a Mexican kit, Canadian kit or Real Ale kit?

Thanks all!

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1 hour ago, Titans19 said:

Hi all,

Long time between posts....

I have a beer brewing in my temp controlled fridge and want to put another brew on however the LHBS hasn't got any Kviek yeast.

If putting together a coopers K&K would it be better to use the US-05 I usually use when in my fridge ? Or use the tin yeast?

The temp here is basically 25-30c.

Also, given the temp would it be better to do a Mexican kit, Canadian kit or Real Ale kit?

Thanks all!

If you want to use the kit yeast, use a kit in the original series (so OS lager, Draught, Canadian Blonde or Real Ale), which all come with 100% Coopers dry ale yeast, and try to keep the temp <25C with a swamp cooler and ice. Coopers dry ale yeast tolerates warm temps better than some other yeasts but 25C is pretty warm, and even Coopers yeast will taste bad at 30C. 

Don't use the Mexican Cervesa kit unless you swap out the yeast for something else. The yeast that comes with that kit is half lager yeast, which would not be happy at 25-30C.

Kviek yeast would be perfect, but Saison yeast might be another possibility, if you like Saisons. If you go that route be aware that you need to treat your FV and bottles with bleach afterwards as most of them are diastaticus and could cause subsequent brews to be too dry and over carbed. 

Cheers,

Christina.

Edited by ChristinaS1
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18 hours ago, Greeny1525229549 said:

Have not used the yeast but what temp were you fermenting at. A kolsch is usually done colder than a normal ale which mutes those fruity flavours. I usually do mine at 15 or 16c.

Hey Greeny,

My notes tell me 17C. I was listening to a podcast this morning and they suggested dropping the temp further. Supposedly a Kolsch should have some fruit characteristics but they are meant to be subtle. 

Maybe its time to try a different yeast and a lower temp.

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32 minutes ago, Mickep said:

I have accumulated about 20 packets of Coopers kit tin yeast mostly from OS Coopers Lager. What to do with them?

I wonder if you would get any response by listing it on Gumtree.  Somebody "around the corner" may be interested.

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2 hours ago, Pickles Jones said:
3 hours ago, Mickep said:

I have accumulated about 20 packets of Coopers kit tin yeast mostly from OS Coopers Lager. What to do with them?

I wonder if you would get any response by listing it on Gumtree.  Somebody "around the corner" may be interested.

Yeah true that, thanks PJ, or if there are people here on the forum who reside in Vic I could post to them. 

Edited by Mickep
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On 7/16/2021 at 8:20 AM, Titans19 said:

Thanks guys. I guess I'll roll the dice with the real ale kit. Its my first time with that kit so I won't judge it by how it comes out.

Cheers!

Pitched yeast last night. The temp strip has indicated about 31c all day and the airlock has been going nuts! I've had to put water in it three times.

 

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11 minutes ago, Titans19 said:

Pitched yeast last night. The temp strip has indicated about 31c all day and the airlock has been going nuts! I've had to put water in it three times.

 

kit yeast? only kviek would be ok at that temp any other yeast will make beer taste horrid

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