Yeast Thread 2021

[Shamus O'Sean]

20 hours ago, Green Blob said:

Philly Sour - oh wow, what a yeast

That's a good enough review for me.  I'm gettin' some.

[Tone boy]

On 1/15/2021 at 9:55 AM, Tone boy said:

Ok good news. I have harvested my first yeast slurry. Followed the advice here pretty much. After bottling I swirled the yeast cake (with a little bit of cold water from the kettle) and poured it through the tap into 2 sanitized containers. One jar and one capped stubby. Got about 400ml all up. It’s now in the fridge. 
When I brew my next ale, I’m guessing I’ll pitch both containers into the wort? Or would one be enough? I was thinking both to ensure a good amount of healthy yeast...

Also do I need to “burp” these containers? (FG on that brew was 1.005 and had been stable for 3 days). If so I might transfer to screw top plastic bottles...

Cheers and thanks for all the advice!

Ok quick update on this. 3 days ago I brewed an American pale ale and pitched the stubby of harvested M44 yeast in the photo ( but not the jar). She was off and running about 28 hours later. 
Pitched at 21 degrees C and fermenting at 19.5.  Didn’t bother bringing it up to room temp prior to pitching.
All looks good at this stage. Will dry hop tomorrow. 
cheers legends

Edited January 30, 2021 by Tone boy

[ChristinaS1]

On 1/26/2021 at 7:12 AM, Shamus O'Sean said:

Best to pitch soon after rehydrating.  A Lallemand YouTube, just recently, said within 45 minutes.  They also said rehydrating compared to dry pitching makes very little if any difference.  See if you can find the video.  Its only about 3 minutes long.  Actually, I found it:

 

So Lallemand has finally stopped recommending rehydration. Good. They held out for years. Nice to see they now approve dry pitching. Thanks for the heads up on this as I was not aware. 

[ChristinaS1]

On 1/8/2021 at 6:32 PM, Bribie G said:

The ale is Mauribrew 514 and the lager is Mauribrew 497.

There is info in old threads from PB2, to former moderator, that Coopers yeast was developed in house from a distillers yeast, by a Coopers scientist. Production has been contracted out to Mauribrew.

Not sure if Coopers would be okay with Mauribrew relabelling their yeast as Mauribrew 514 but, if so, the correct way to put it is that Mauribrew 514 is Coopers yeast, rather than the other way around. 

Nobody outside of Coopers knows the identity of the lager yeast. Trade secret. Only thing we know for sure is that it is a third party yeast. To say it is Mauribrew 497 is speculation. I have also seen speculation it is a Fermentis product.

It is also possible they use more than one lager yeast.  Based on the old codes, I think that could be true.

Cheers,

Christina.

Edited February 7, 2021 by ChristinaS1

[ChristinaS1]

On 1/8/2021 at 6:32 PM, Bribie G said:

The ale is Mauribrew 514

Assuming that it is actually Coopers yeast, it is interesting to read the product info sheet for 514:

https://www.homebrewing.org/assets/images/PDF/Mauribrew_ALE514.pdf

Take away is that it is neutral. The most significant thing about it is its medium-low attenuation, which is very important for a kit yeast. Preserves some malt flavour and body, even when the recipe includes a lot of adjuncts. They rate it 10/10 for malt, 6/10 for hops, and 4/10 for fruit. They recommend the use of cold crashing and fining, because it is not the best floccer. This all squares exactly with my experience of Coopers dry yeast.

Cheers,

Christina.

PS Mauribrew also makes a "Draught Yeast." From the specs it looks like it is Nottingham. https://www.homebrewing.org/assets/images/PDF/Mauribrew_DRAUGHT.pdf

[Shamus O'Sean]

11 hours ago, ChristinaS1 said:

So Lallemand has finally stopped recommending rehydration. Good. They held out for years. Nice to see they now approve dry pitching. Thanks for the heads up on this as I was not aware. 

Watching the video, I thought they were sitting on the fence on the subject.  More or less saying do what suits you best, but at least saying that sprinkling dry is perfectly fine.

Compared to Fermentis whose message is more about sprinkling dry being the way to go.  While they say you can rehydrate if you want, they also say but why would you.

[ChristinaS1]

Interestingly they rate the Daught / Nottingham yeast differently depending on whether it is fermented at 20C or 13C.

20C in 20P (1.083SG): 8/10 fruit; 4/10 hops; 3/10 malt.

13C in 10P (1.040SG): 7/10 hops; 6/10 malt; 5/10 fruit.

I have never tried Nottingham at 13C, but maybe I will. It makes sense that it would be cleaner / less ester-y at 13C and lower gravity but the way it accentuates hops and malt more at 13C is a bit of a surprise, especially the hops. There is a big difference in the gravity tested: 20P for 20C vs 10P for 13C. Not sure why they used such a high gravity for the 20C test, (which they also used for the 514 test). Fermentis uses 18P (1.074SG). 

I also note that they say both yeasts are good for 3 years from the date of production. 

Edited February 8, 2021 by ChristinaS1

[Malter White]

For want of a better word, I'm a slapdash brewer. I take a fairly simplistic approach to my beers and I could never understand why folks found it necessary to rehydrate yeast. I figured it's gonna get pretty wet once you throw it into your wort. However, I always say, "It's your beer, you do as you please with it."  More power to you if you choose to rehydrate.

[Journeyman]

6 hours ago, MUZZY said:

I could never understand why folks found it necessary to rehydrate yeast

I began (2nd Brew) with a toucan of old (out-of-date) cans and used the can yeast. Following advice I read on here I did a starter to make sure the yeast was OK. Kinda slipped into the habit and then after a while noticed my brews take off faster and finished a little sooner than what others reported. So I keep doing it - why spend an extra day or so waiting for a brew to finish?

Standard result is, 'layer of bubbles' within an hour or so, 6 - 7 cm Kraussen within ~10 hours (sometimes less) and I've never had a brew take 7 days to FG - I think there's been one or two that I was taking the 2nd FG sample on day 7. More usually day 7 is 1 day into CC territory.

Admittedly I have yet to make a lager.  

[ben 10]

Just received my Wyeast order from Brewman. He has amazing service and has a thread for orders on Australian Craft Brewing.

i have https://wyeastlab.com/yeast-strain/roeselare-ale-blend and https://wyeastlab.com/yeast-strain/farmhouse-ale which I am looking forward to using.

The Roeselare will replace my current flanders strain when I bottle that, and the Farmhouse will be used for saisons. Should get at least 5 from the Roeselare and 10 from the Farmhouse which makes the prrice worth it.

[stquinto]

On 2/10/2021 at 8:17 AM, Green Blob said:

Just received my Wyeast order from Brewman. He has amazing service and has a thread for orders on Australian Craft Brewing.

i have https://wyeastlab.com/yeast-strain/roeselare-ale-blend and https://wyeastlab.com/yeast-strain/farmhouse-ale which I am looking forward to using.

The Roeselare will replace my current flanders strain when I bottle that, and the Farmhouse will be used for saisons. Should get at least 5 from the Roeselare and 10 from the Farmhouse which makes the prrice worth it.

I've got a couple of packs of Wyeast 1388 to make (hopefully) a Duvel clone using two tins of LMT, using 1/2 kg in a boil for 60 minutes with Styrian, then some Saaz for aroma. Then in FV with the rest of the LME and 1kg dextrose. This recipe will be copyright @Greeny1525229549 and @Shamus O'Sean as they came up with the recipe.

Presumably with this smack pack method you just follow the instructions (think I've seen a video of it somewhere).

As the Wyeast is twice the price of others  (almost the cost of my LME) I'd like to reuse it: if I've understood correctly I just keep some of the slurry from the bottom of the barrel after bottling and keep it in a sterilised jar in the fridge ? Then either pitch it straight in to a new brew or bring it up to room temperature as commented before.

 

[stquinto]

Another question if I may be so bold:

What happens if you make a pils-style brew (Capital Pils recipe. i.e. strong lager) using ale yeast ? Obviously you ferment it at a higher temperature and don't have to lager it as long, but would it really affect the taste using a different style yeast ?

As my comment above about making a Duval cloen, as there's secondary fermentation in the bottle I'd be as well making a starter from the dregs of a six-pack of the shop-bought beer ('bout the same price as a Wyeast pack...)

[ChristinaS1]

11 minutes ago, stquinto said:

What happens if you make a pils-style brew (Capital Pils recipe. i.e. strong lager) using ale yeast ?

You get an ale. Whether a brew is a lager or an ale depends on the yeast used, not the grist. 

If you want your Pils grist to taste more lager-like without lagering, use a lager yeast at 18C.

Edited February 11, 2021 by ChristinaS1

[stquinto]

3 minutes ago, ChristinaS1 said:

You get an ale. Whether a brew is a lager or an ale depends on the yeast used, not the grist. 

If you want your Pils grist to taste more lager-like without lagering, use a lager yeast at 18C.

Thanks Christina 

Pretty obvious really  I'll stick to the W34/70 as in the recipe

[ChristinaS1]

14 minutes ago, stquinto said:

As my comment above about making a Duval cloen, as there's secondary fermentation in the bottle I'd be as well making a starter from the dregs of a six-pack of the shop-bought beer ('bout the same price as a Wyeast pack...)

You might want to do some checking first to find out if Duval uses their fermentation yeast for bottle conditioning. While Coopers is well known to use their fermentation yeast for bottling as well, a lot of big breweries don't as it can lead to problems with over-attenuation in the bottle. Instead they use specialized bottling yeast, which does not ferment maltotriose. It would have a completely different character. 

Cheers,

Christina

[ChristinaS1]

40 minutes ago, stquinto said:

I've got a couple of packs of Wyeast 1388 to make (hopefully) a Duvel clone using two tins of LMT, using 1/2 kg in a boil for 60 minutes with Styrian, then some Saaz for aroma. Then in FV with the rest of the LME and 1kg dextrose. This recipe will be copyright @Greeny1525229549 and @Shamus O'Sean as they came up with the recipe.

Presumably with this smack pack method you just follow the instructions (think I've seen a video of it somewhere).

As the Wyeast is twice the price of others  (almost the cost of my LME) I'd like to reuse it: if I've understood correctly I just keep some of the slurry from the bottom of the barrel after bottling and keep it in a sterilised jar in the fridge ? Then either pitch it straight in to a new brew or bring it up to room temperature as commented before.

No need to buy two smack packs for a brew. Just buy one and make a starter. I suggest you read the thread on Shaken Not Stirred starters as it is an easy method and does not require special equipment. 

If you make a normal gravity brew, the yeast cake at the bottom of the fermenter contains enough yeast for four brews, so pour the slurry into four sterile jars. Keep them in the fridge and use before three months old, or use two jars if they are older than three months. You can repeat this process with your fourth jar of slurry, dividing it's yeast cake into four jars after fermentation. You can get nine batches from a single smack pack. 

No need to warm the jars to room temp before pitching. Pitch direct from the fridge. You don't want them waking up in the jar as they would be hungry and looking for something to eat. 

Cheers,

Christina

Edited February 11, 2021 by ChristinaS1

[stquinto]

3 minutes ago, ChristinaS1 said:

No need to buy two smack packs for a brew. Just buy one and make a starter. I suggest you read the thread on Shaken Not Stirred starters as it is an easy method and does not require special equipment. 

If you make a normal gravity brew, the yeast cake at the bottom of the fermenter contains enough yeast for four brews, so pour the slurry into four sterile jars. Keep them in the fridge and use before three months old, or use two jars if they are older than three months. You can repeat this process with your fourth jar of slurry, dividing it's yeast cake into four jars after fermentation. You can get nine batches from a single smack pack. 

No need to warm the jars to room temp before pitching. Pitch direct from the fridge. You don't want them waking up in the jar as they would be hungry and looking for something to eat. 

Cheers,

Christina

Awesome !

[ChristinaS1]

On 2/10/2021 at 3:17 AM, Green Blob said:

The Roeselare will replace my current flanders strain when I bottle that

Jamil Zainasheff said that would be one of his desert island choices. If I recall correctly the other was WLP002.

Cheers,

Christina.

Edited February 11, 2021 by ChristinaS1

[Greenyinthewestofsydney]

6 hours ago, ChristinaS1 said:

You might want to do some checking first to find out if Duval uses their fermentation yeast for bottle conditioning. While Coopers is well known to use their fermentation yeast for bottling as well, a lot of big breweries don't as it can lead to problems with over-attenuation in the bottle. Instead they use specialized bottling yeast, which does not ferment maltotriose. It would have a completely different character. 

Cheers,

Christina

+1. Do a bit of googling. Not many Belgians use the primary yeast for bottling. Some do but good luck trying to culture it up. As they are sitting under higher alcohol they usually die quicker. I have tried a few and failed the vast majority of the time.

Also a word of warning on Duvel and Belgians in general. They are super attenuators. Wyeast say on the site WY1388 is a 74-78 attenuator. That is utter horseshit and in my opinion dangerous. Pitching low and ramping temp will get you into the high 80s or early 90s which is to style. Also duvel is typically carbed more than a normal beer. If you are going to go to those levels I suggest you use higher strength bottles or the coopers plastic ones. 

[Hilltop hops]

On 1/29/2021 at 5:41 PM, Green Blob said:

Philly Sour - oh wow, what a yeast

Hey GB,

Brewing a raspberry wheat with Philly Sour tomorrow, any advice on temp etc 

[ben 10]

1 minute ago, Hilltop hops said:

Brewing a raspberry wheat with Philly Sour tomorrow, any advice on temp etc 

No, I run @ FNQ shed temps (in the hills mind you but still pretty warm.

[jamiek86]

@ChristinaS1 assuming because lager yeast needs more pitched would split the trub into 2 bigger lots for re use? I read someone say lager yeast was a bit harder to re use from trub is this the case?

[ChristinaS1]

1 hour ago, jamiek86 said:

@ChristinaS1 assuming because lager yeast needs more pitched would split the trub into 2 bigger lots for re use? I read someone say lager yeast was a bit harder to re use from trub is this the case?

With a lager you have to decide first whether you want to pitch warm or cold. If you want to pitch cold, use the whole yeast cake. If you are okay with pitching warm, divide it into two lots, and pitch it between 18-20C, then wait until you see the first faint signs of fermentation (condensation), then then ramp the temp down in stages to your target fermentation temp.

Cheers,

Christina.

Edited February 12, 2021 by ChristinaS1

[jamiek86]

2 minutes ago, ChristinaS1 said:

With a lager you have to decide first whether you want to pitch warm or cold. If you want to pitch cold, use the whole yeast cake. If you are okay with pitching warm, divide it into two lots, and pitch it between 18-20C, then wait until you see the first faint signs of fermentation (condensation), then then ramp the temp down in stages to your target ferment temp.

Cheers,

Christina.

I pitched cole first few times and only just recently pitched warm then dropped wont have those results until it ages properly so will just gather it in a whole lot got more on order thanks for info

[ChristinaS1]

15 minutes ago, jamiek86 said:

I pitched cole first few times and only just recently pitched warm then dropped wont have those results until it ages properly so will just gather it in a whole lot got more on order thanks for info

Cool. Just remember that for your first batch, whether you use liquid lager yeast or one package of dry lager yeast, you will have to make a starter if you want to pitch cold, to build it up to ~400B cells for an average gravity brew. Use a yeast calculator. 

An alternative when cold pitching dry lager yeast is to use 3 packages of yeast, which is expensive.

Most home brewers who use dry lager yeast probably use a single pack and pitch warm. 

Cheers,

Christina.

Edited February 12, 2021 by ChristinaS1