It's Kegging time 2022

[Hoppy81]

17 hours ago, Aussiekraut said:

They are good looking but can be very fiddly to set up and connect. Even changing kegs can be a pain in the neck. Right in the beginning, I had some beer leaks in the font tower. When you have virtually no space to manoeuvre your hands around and push things up from below, it doesn't take much to push a duotight lock in and slightly dislodge the beer line for example. Swapping a keg from the 2nd row, you disconnect the forward one and take it out, when you then have the other one out, When putting the rear one in, you need to somehow keep the beer and gas lines for the front one accessible or you will start taking it all out and re-do it. Luckily once there ate 4 full kegs in there, you don't have to swap any time soon  

 

Totally agree mate, i love mine but they are a pain in the ass to access and change kegs over, most definitely preferred my home made keg fridge for that reason but looks and cooler stable temps the Kegerator has it in the bag.

[Tricky Micky]

16 hours ago, interceptor said:

Yes, it's like a bottle.

Yeah, thought it might be. Just wasn't sure how the chemistry or whatever of CO2 worked. - whether it dissipated over time or some such.

Edited April 24, 2022 by Mickep

[Pezzza]

7 hours ago, Mickep said:

Yeah, thought it might be. Just wasn't sure how the chemistry or whatever of CO2 worked. - whether it dissipated over time or some such.

You asked for it @Mickep haha

And just always remember too that

Matter cannot be created nor destroyed

The Law of Conservation of Mass

 

On 4/15/2022 at 8:15 AM, Mickep said: 
Silly question but if a keg has been suitably carbonated with CO2 will this keg hold that same pressure if disconnected from the gas line for a few days? I presume so - but not certain. 

PV = nRT 
Ideal Gas Law... I thought it was Boyle's Law but I don't have any festive ancient text books anymore and the grumbly internet seems to call it all sorts of things...  anyway it still exists and works so just remember PV = nRT ; )

PLUS

Henry’s Law…. HL governs the amount of CO2 in solution, in relation to the amount under pressure in the headspace above the liquid surface…. But I think that this can be parked up as we are assuming that the Beer has been fully carbonated.  We are also not going to deal with any Calcium Carbonate chemistry e.g. limestone cave stuff where there is interaction with carbonic acid from CO2 via rainfall and carbonates precipitating out or going back into solution not that relevant… 

So if your keg is fully carbed up - so that the qtty of gas "n" and the Headspace Volume V and the Temp T stay the same - and the keg does not leak (V is constant) - yes your beer should remain suitably carbonated with the same Pressure Pin the headspace.  R is just the Gas Constant and is fixed.  

So I may have 6 bigs and 2 smalls in the box freezer at 2-3deg - but only ever use one gas line - and a number of pluto gun taps.  I just rotate the gas line and disconnect to where I need it to carb up -- or pour.  

So if the keg is sitting safely in the cold zone  - and is fully carbed so that the Pressure in the headspace is in equilibrium with the total  amount of Gas in Solution.... then the festive kegglers just sit there and all things going well they condition there at constant pressure for as long as you like... and this is what happens during lagering or keg conditioning...  For my Stouty Boy with the Nitro fully gassed up it sat for like 6 months in the festive Keggler maintaining a fairly high pressure and conditioning nicely with no addition of any Gas as it was at a fixed temp T and fixed volume V as no leakage, fortunately ; ) 

If you heat the keg up - things can change... it will also depend upon the solubility of the gas in relation to temp and think we all know that the colder things are that the solubility of CO2 increases... well up to a certain coldness... 

PV = nRT is just gas Temp and Volume and number (n) of moles or qtty of gas functional relationship  e.g. if you have a tyre tube and it is sealed and  if it gets hot then if the Volume is fixed by the Tyre and Rim around it, then the P Pressure must go up as PV must equal nRT.  Or if the tube is unconstrained, it may swell so that the V Volume goes up as the T goes up so that the Pressure stays the same.  

So although PV=nRT this does not relate directly to the relationship between the gas in headspace partial pressure and that in solution over time, over the short term it is relevant as if you release the gas - the volume becomes infinite and the P drops to zero.  But then there is the further interaction of Henry's Law which relates the partial pressure of the CO2 in the headspace with that in solution...  so if you use the PRV to let all the gas out and the P drops to zero as governed by the Ideal Gas Law... if you come back some hours later... the P may have gone back up... as some of the CO2 in solution will have come out and moved into the headspace as per Henry's Law... so hence Keg and CO2 and solution gas and headspace pressure are more complex than a tyre tube. 

And I guess really a simple answer would be - yes the keg should just act like a big bottle if it is sealed properly - so it should hopefully retain  the same carb level and head pressure if you don't change the temperature.... HTH 

Haha and I wrote this yesterday and did not get to posting…

And in the meantime the simple and clear and distinct answer "well sealed and well behaved keg = bottle"

without the lengthy scientific blithering preamble

was already provided by Ceptor : ) @interceptor

Anyway... HTH for those interested  

 

And please if any of this is Wonky and needs correction cos I have gone up some dry gully  - I would be very happy to be advised and pointed in the right direction 

 

[Tricky Micky]

On 4/25/2022 at 7:35 AM, Hoppy81 said:

Luckily once there ate 4 full kegs in there, you don't have to swap any time soon  

Um - I might have a drinking problem - seem to be swapping out 

 

17 hours ago, Itinerant Peasant said:

You asked for it @Mickep haha

And just always remember too that

Matter cannot be created nor destroyed

The Law of Conservation of Mass

 

On 4/15/2022 at 8:15 AM, Mickep said: 
Silly question but if a keg has been suitably carbonated with CO2 will this keg hold that same pressure if disconnected from the gas line for a few days? I presume so - but not certain. 

PV = nRT 
Ideal Gas Law... I thought it was Boyle's Law but I don't have any festive ancient text books anymore and the grumbly internet seems to call it all sorts of things...  anyway it still exists and works so just remember PV = nRT ; )

PLUS

Henry’s Law…. HL governs the amount of CO2 in solution, in relation to the amount under pressure in the headspace above the liquid surface…. But I think that this can be parked up as we are assuming that the Beer has been fully carbonated.  We are also not going to deal with any Calcium Carbonate chemistry e.g. limestone cave stuff where there is interaction with carbonic acid from CO2 via rainfall and carbonates precipitating out or going back into solution not that relevant… 

So if your keg is fully carbed up - so that the qtty of gas "n" and the Headspace Volume V and the Temp T stay the same - and the keg does not leak (V is constant) - yes your beer should remain suitably carbonated with the same Pressure Pin the headspace.  R is just the Gas Constant and is fixed.  

So I may have 6 bigs and 2 smalls in the box freezer at 2-3deg - but only ever use one gas line - and a number of pluto gun taps.  I just rotate the gas line and disconnect to where I need it to carb up -- or pour.  

So if the keg is sitting safely in the cold zone  - and is fully carbed so that the Pressure in the headspace is in equilibrium with the total  amount of Gas in Solution.... then the festive kegglers just sit there and all things going well they condition there at constant pressure for as long as you like... and this is what happens during lagering or keg conditioning...  For my Stouty Boy with the Nitro fully gassed up it sat for like 6 months in the festive Keggler maintaining a fairly high pressure and conditioning nicely with no addition of any Gas as it was at a fixed temp T and fixed volume V as no leakage, fortunately ; ) 

If you heat the keg up - things can change... it will also depend upon the solubility of the gas in relation to temp and think we all know that the colder things are that the solubility of CO2 increases... well up to a certain coldness... 

PV = nRT is just gas Temp and Volume and number (n) of moles or qtty of gas functional relationship  e.g. if you have a tyre tube and it is sealed and  if it gets hot then if the Volume is fixed by the Tyre and Rim around it, then the P Pressure must go up as PV must equal nRT.  Or if the tube is unconstrained, it may swell so that the V Volume goes up as the T goes up so that the Pressure stays the same.  

So although PV=nRT this does not relate directly to the relationship between the gas in headspace partial pressure and that in solution over time, over the short term it is relevant as if you release the gas - the volume becomes infinite and the P drops to zero.  But then there is the further interaction of Henry's Law which relates the partial pressure of the CO2 in the headspace with that in solution...  so if you use the PRV to let all the gas out and the P drops to zero as governed by the Ideal Gas Law... if you come back some hours later... the P may have gone back up... as some of the CO2 in solution will have come out and moved into the headspace as per Henry's Law... so hence Keg and CO2 and solution gas and headspace pressure are more complex than a tyre tube. 

And I guess really a simple answer would be - yes the keg should just act like a big bottle if it is sealed properly - so it should hopefully retain  the same carb level and head pressure if you don't change the temperature.... HTH 

Haha and I wrote this yesterday and did not get to posting…

And in the meantime the simple and clear and distinct answer "well sealed and well behaved keg = bottle"

without the lengthy scientific blithering preamble

was already provided by Ceptor : ) @interceptor

Anyway... HTH for those interested  

 

And please if any of this is Wonky and needs correction cos I have gone up some dry gully  - I would be very happy to be advised and pointed in the right direction 

 

Ha, Thanks for this IP, love it! 

[Aussiekraut]

7 hours ago, Mickep said:

Um - I might have a drinking problem - seem to be swapping out 

Looks like me too. I try to spread the load across all 4 kegs but the problem is of course, they all run out around the same time.

[Aussiekraut]

On 4/25/2022 at 5:07 PM, Itinerant Peasant said:

The Law of Conservation of Mass

Yeah, I relate to that. No matter what I do, I always seem to conserve my mass 

[Pale Man]

Kegging a Mosaic Pale Ale. Probably one of the last open transfers I'll do. I've got a Fermzilla 30 litre all rounder on the way.

 

[ben 10]

On 4/25/2022 at 5:07 PM, Itinerant Peasant said:

And in the meantime the simple and clear and distinct answer "well sealed and well behaved keg = bottle"

without the lengthy scientific blithering preamble

was already provided by Ceptor : ) @interceptor

Lol

[Classic Brewing Co]

12 hours ago, Pale Man said:

Kegging a Mosaic Pale Ale. Probably one of the last open transfers I'll do. I've got a Fermzilla 30 litre all rounder on the way.

 

I have often wondered about getting one of those when I was organised with gas but I have 7 Fermenters now plus a Craft so it would probably be overkill. The look good though.

[ozdevil]

5 hours ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

I have often wondered about getting one of those when I was organised with gas but I have 7 Fermenters now plus a Craft so it would probably be overkill. The look good though.

you can never have to many fermenters  ,  fermzilla 30l all rounder  with pressure connections and spunding valve will look great  and will go with that kegging system you have 

whats another few bucks lol

 

[Classic Brewing Co]

56 minutes ago, ozdevil said:

you can never have to many fermenters  ,  fermzilla 30l all rounder  with pressure connections and spunding valve will look great  and will go with that kegging system you have 

whats another few bucks lol

 

The money could be spent on extra kegs/gas bottles & accessories rather than buy more fermenters but as you say it's only money 

[ozdevil]

16 minutes ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

The money could be spent on extra kegs/gas bottles & accessories rather than buy more fermenters but as you say it's only money 

arrrgh that rabbit hole   never ends mate , we both know eventually you have a unitank sitting in the classic brewery

[Hoppy81]

5 hours ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

The money could be spent on extra kegs/gas bottles & accessories rather than buy more fermenters but as you say it's only money 

Plenty in stock, want me to bring one down next week hahahaha

[Classic Brewing Co]

57 minutes ago, Hoppy81 said:

Plenty in stock, want me to bring one down next week hahahaha

Yeah mate just load up your chariot with as much as you can we can sort it out. 

[ozdevil]

57 minutes ago, Hoppy81 said:

Plenty in stock, want me to bring one down next week hahahaha

what do you mean 1 for @Classic Brewing Co  he is atleast going to need 8 kegs so phil dont runout

[Hoppy81]

17 minutes ago, ozdevil said:

what do you mean 1 for @Classic Brewing Co  he is atleast going to need 8 kegs so phil dont runout

True, i'll load up 3 x 60L all rounders, that should suffice........for now

[stquinto]

Got a bit of a conundrum. My keg fridge can only fit 2 cornies or 3 10l kegs. I have two taps drilled through the door but have a third one available. The gas manifold splits into 4 inside the fridge, with the gas bottle outside, so I could have three 10l kegs on the go at once.

I have about 8 litres of Real IPA in one keg, and maybe 12 litres of Landlord in another. My Duvel cornie is primed and ready but I don’t have space for it in the fridge, and the shameless Jezebel keeps winking at me every time I go past. “Drink me” she wails,  like a mermaid seducing the sailors unto the rocks, the wanton hussy…

If I take an unfinished keg out of the fridge for a while will it go off quicker than if I left it cold and finished it?

I think for my consumption 10 litre kegs might be a better bet as I don’t tend to drink the same beer each time. 

[Classic Brewing Co]

2 hours ago, stquinto said:

Got a bit of a conundrum. My keg fridge can only fit 2 cornies or 3 10l kegs. I have two taps drilled through the door but have a third one available. The gas manifold splits into 4 inside the fridge, with the gas bottle outside, so I could have three 10l kegs on the go at once.

I have about 8 litres of Real IPA in one keg, and maybe 12 litres of Landlord in another. My Duvel cornie is primed and ready but I don’t have space for it in the fridge, and the shameless Jezebel keeps winking at me every time I go past. “Drink me” she wails,  like a mermaid seducing the sailors unto the rocks, the wanton hussy…

If I take an unfinished keg out of the fridge for a while will it go off quicker than if I left it cold and finished it?

I think for my consumption 10 litre kegs might be a better bet as I don’t tend to drink the same beer each time. 

Just drink faster man !!

Seriously these are questions I probably will be asking soon as my fridge will be converting to a keg fridge next week.

[Aussiekraut]

2 hours ago, stquinto said:

Got a bit of a conundrum. My keg fridge can only fit 2 cornies or 3 10l kegs. I have two taps drilled through the door but have a third one available. The gas manifold splits into 4 inside the fridge, with the gas bottle outside, so I could have three 10l kegs on the go at once.

I have about 8 litres of Real IPA in one keg, and maybe 12 litres of Landlord in another. My Duvel cornie is primed and ready but I don’t have space for it in the fridge, and the shameless Jezebel keeps winking at me every time I go past. “Drink me” she wails,  like a mermaid seducing the sailors unto the rocks, the wanton hussy…

If I take an unfinished keg out of the fridge for a while will it go off quicker than if I left it cold and finished it?

I think for my consumption 10 litre kegs might be a better bet as I don’t tend to drink the same beer each time. 

I reckon it'll be fine. The keg is pressurised and sealed, the beer is carbed. I don't think it is different to taking a cold bottle out of the fridge and putting it back in at a later point.

[Shamus O'Sean]

7 hours ago, stquinto said:

Got a bit of a conundrum. My keg fridge can only fit 2 cornies or 3 10l kegs. I have two taps drilled through the door but have a third one available. The gas manifold splits into 4 inside the fridge, with the gas bottle outside, so I could have three 10l kegs on the go at once.

I have about 8 litres of Real IPA in one keg, and maybe 12 litres of Landlord in another. My Duvel cornie is primed and ready but I don’t have space for it in the fridge, and the shameless Jezebel keeps winking at me every time I go past. “Drink me” she wails,  like a mermaid seducing the sailors unto the rocks, the wanton hussy…

If I take an unfinished keg out of the fridge for a while will it go off quicker than if I left it cold and finished it?

I think for my consumption 10 litre kegs might be a better bet as I don’t tend to drink the same beer each time. 

I agree that it will be fine to take a keg out of the fridge for a while.

There was an old husband's tale that you should only refrigerate beer once.  But that was probably about the husband maintaining possession of some space in the fridge for a few beers.  With a keg, the worst that could happen is a drop in carbonation.  But with kegs, it is easy to bring that carbonation back up.

[Classic Brewing Co]

Just now, Shamus O'Sean said:

I agree that it will be fine to take a keg out of the fridge for a while.

There was an old husband's tale that you should only refrigerate beer once.  But that was probably about the husband maintaining possession of some space in the fridge for a few beers.  With a keg, the worst that could happen is a drop in carbonation.  But with kegs, it is easy to bring that carbonation back up.

Good to know Shamus, that's something I need to remember. 

[Tricky Micky]

My Kegerator must be sick I keep hearing the kegs coughing. 

 

[Hoppy81]

7 hours ago, Mickep said:

My Kegerator must be sick I keep hearing the kegs coughing. 

 

Mine always whisper too me, my Wife reckons she can never hear them whispering for some reason though.

[stquinto]

24 minutes ago, Hoppy81 said:

Mine always whisper too me, my Wife reckons she can never hear them whispering for some reason though.

 Beguiling devils, aren’t they? 

[Hoppy81]

6 minutes ago, stquinto said:

 Beguiling devils, aren’t they? 

That they are