What Are You Drinking in 2022?

[Classic Brewing Co]

1 minute ago, Mickep said:

I took it as add it now, I better wait until it is cleared up 

I better re-phrase this, I thought Hoppy meant add it now.

[Tricky Micky]

1 hour ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

I better re-phrase this, I thought Hoppy meant add it now.

That's how I read it too but I'm curious as how we'd do that when the keg is under pressure.

[Classic Brewing Co]

1 minute ago, Mickep said:

That's how I read it too but I'm curious as how we'd do that when the keg is under pressure.

Well, I suppose turn the tap off at the manifold, burp the keg, disconnect, open & pour it in, close it, reconnect & turn tap on at manifold. 

[Tricky Micky]

14 minutes ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

Well, I suppose turn the tap off at the manifold, burp the keg, disconnect, open & pour it in, close it, reconnect & turn tap on at manifold. 

I've not done it so I'd be interested in Hoppy's answer. Or if you go ahead - to see what happens.  Sounds like that'd work I'm just uncertain about the pressure side of things and what that might do when opening the keg. This might be also something which I think Al's talked about when injecting a hop steep into the keg's "gas in post. 

[Classic Brewing Co]

36 minutes ago, Mickep said:

I've not done it so I'd be interested in Hoppy's answer. Or if you go ahead - to see what happens.  Sounds like that'd work I'm just uncertain about the pressure side of things and what that might do when opening the keg. This might be also something which I think Al's talked about when injecting a hop steep into the keg's "gas in post. 

I will wait until there is a comment from Hoppy or one of the keg geniuses. 

[kmar92]

1 hour ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

Well, I suppose turn the tap off at the manifold, burp the keg, disconnect, open & pour it in, close it, reconnect & turn tap on at manifold. 

I would imagine that you could add gelatine finings to the keg that has already been gassed and it will work fine. I haven't used gelatine but I believe that it works best if the beer is cold.

As you say @Classic Brewing Co turn off the gas at the manifold and disconnect the gas line from the keg. Release the pressure from the keg via the PRV, just be cautious when you do this as the CO2 already in solution in the keg will tend to want come out of solution as you release pressure and cause frothing. It will be fine though if you just de-gass the beer very slowly with the PRV, take your time and spend at least 10 minutes to release all the pressure via the PRV and you will not have any problems with frothing. Once you have de-gassed take the lid off the keg and add the gelatine solution, trying not to get any O2 in the keg (remember it will still have a blanket of CO2 in the head space of the keg so try and not disturb it). Once you have the gelatine added replace the lid, connect the gas and purge the keg a couple of times to get rid of any O2 and then put the keg on serving pressure again.

It is a very similar process as to what I do when dry hopping a brew in my pressure fermenter and the secret is just go slowly with the de-gassing process to avoid excessive frothing.

[Classic Brewing Co]

6 minutes ago, kmar92 said:

I would imagine that you could add gelatine finings to the keg that has already been gassed and it will work fine. I haven't used gelatine but I believe that it works best if the beer is cold.

As you say @Classic Brewing Co turn off the gas at the manifold and disconnect the gas line from the keg. Release the pressure from the keg via the PRV, just be cautious when you do this as the CO2 already in solution in the keg will tend to want come out of solution as you release pressure and cause frothing. It will be fine though if you just de-gass the beer very slowly with the PRV, take your time and spend at least 10 minutes to release all the pressure via the PRV and you will not have any problems with frothing. Once you have de-gassed take the lid off the keg and add the gelatine solution, trying not to get any O2 in the keg (remember it will still have a blanket of CO2 in the head space of the keg so try and not disturb it). Once you have the gelatine added replace the lid, connect the gas and purge the keg a couple of times to get rid of any O2 and then put the keg on serving pressure again.

It is a very similar process as to what I do when dry hopping a brew in my pressure fermenter and the secret is just go slowly with the de-gassing process to avoid excessive frothing.

Cheers for that @kmar92 I am seriously thinking it would be better if I didn't mess with it, after all it is pretty well gassed up at 8 days, so I am reluctant to attempt it. I have nothing to lose by leaving it in the keg & hope that it will clear itself up. Cheers.

[Hoppy81]

3 hours ago, Mickep said:

Hey Hoppy @Hoppy81, you mean in future -  as in next brew- right? Is there a way to add gelatine once the kegs carbed? Sorry if I've ballsed this up completely.

I'd do exactly what @kmar92 has written @Classic Brewing Co and yes that gelatine will be fine. Your beer will still be carbonated Phil, just make sure when you put the lid back on to burp it a few times.

[Tricky Micky]

1 hour ago, kmar92 said:

I would imagine that you could add gelatine finings to the keg that has already been gassed and it will work fine. I haven't used gelatine but I believe that it works best if the beer is cold.

As you say @Classic Brewing Co turn off the gas at the manifold and disconnect the gas line from the keg. Release the pressure from the keg via the PRV, just be cautious when you do this as the CO2 already in solution in the keg will tend to want come out of solution as you release pressure and cause frothing. It will be fine though if you just de-gass the beer very slowly with the PRV, take your time and spend at least 10 minutes to release all the pressure via the PRV and you will not have any problems with frothing. Once you have de-gassed take the lid off the keg and add the gelatine solution, trying not to get any O2 in the keg (remember it will still have a blanket of CO2 in the head space of the keg so try and not disturb it). Once you have the gelatine added replace the lid, connect the gas and purge the keg a couple of times to get rid of any O2 and then put the keg on serving pressure again.

It is a very similar process as to what I do when dry hopping a brew in my pressure fermenter and the secret is just go slowly with the de-gassing process to avoid excessive frothing.

Thanks @kmar92, KM92, that's awesome. Thanks for sharing.

[Tricky Micky]

56 minutes ago, Hoppy81 said:

I'd do exactly what @kmar92 has written @Classic Brewing Co and yes that gelatine will be fine. Your beer will still be carbonated Phil, just make sure when you put the lid back on to burp it a few times.

Cheers @Hoppy81 Hoppy, you guys are fantastic, thanks for being so generous with ya knowledge. 

[Pezzza]

These floating offtakes with filter also can sometimes deliver clearer beer faster off the top of the column in the keg... I have a couple and they seem to work quite nicely... there are a few different sorts...

[BlackSands]

A quick click off the phone of what has turned out to be an unexpected surprise.  I actually seriously considered tipping this one... something I haven't had to do for well over 5 years.  This is the second of only two K&K brews I've done this year, in this case a Real Ale Can, LME and 100g of Citra.  But something was seriously off with the fermentation!  My 3-year-old Kveik Voss, quite out of character produced an extremely slow fermentation on this occasion.  I'm used to 1.5 - 2 days, this time it was an extremely slow 6-days (@35ºC) which by kveik standards is unheard of!  Tastings along the way produced quite a bitter bite to the beer and there was an overwhelming sickly-sweet aroma going on in the fermentation fridge.  

But in the end, I decided to bottle it up regardless and take my chances.   I just handed a glass to my wife.  One sip and she says: "Wow!  What's this one?".  Well it sure aint the beer it was intended to be, but whatever went wrong with this brew has ended quite well.  That extra bitterness has added a certain character which I'm really liking...I've tended to steer away from higher IBU's but it's actually imparted quite a refreshing bite to this and I have to say, voss + citra seems to quite a good partnership also. 

So, I think this perhaps serves as a good example not being so quick and hasty to right off a brew that you may suspect has gone bad... because it may actually surprise you if you give it a chance! 

[Red devil 44]

AG Kolsch

Little muddy looking, been carbing at serving pressure whilst away working.

‘Thought it might of cleared by this time, oh well tastes great on a warm day in SE QLD, good to be home. 

[Classic Brewing Co]

30 minutes ago, BlackSands said:

So, I think this perhaps serves as a good example not being so quick and hasty to right off a brew that you may suspect has gone bad... because it may actually surprise you if you give it a chance! 

 

I would have to agree with you BS, I guess a lot of us are too impatient at times. In fact, time heals pretty much everything.

[Tricky Micky]

54 minutes ago, BlackSands said:

So, I think this perhaps serves as a good example not being so quick and hasty to right off a brew that you may suspect has gone bad... because it may actually surprise you if you give it a chance! 

Curious BS, how long you gave this before it became a keeper. 

[Tricky Micky]

22 minutes ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

I would have to agree with you BS, I guess a lot of us are too impatient at times. In fact, time heals pretty much everything.

Not my 3 kegs Classic, let me just say they were rancid in reality...something seriously wrong...all had the really nasty smell of nail polish remover, a sourly perception (maybe bitterness but very unpleasant) and an aftertaste or warmth of a cheap neat undiluted spirit.

Something in my process I think went horribly wrong. I think I was around the 6 week mark when I tasted for the final time before tipping and they were getting worse.

[Classic Brewing Co]

6 minutes ago, Mickep said:

Not my 3 kegs Classic, let me just say they were rancid in reality...something seriously wrong...all had the really nasty smell of nail polish remover, a sourly perception (maybe bitterness but very unpleasant) and an aftertaste or warmth of a cheap neat undiluted spirit.

Something in my process I think went horribly wrong. I think I was around the 6 week mark when I tasted for the final time before tipping and they were getting worse.

It is strange to get 3 kegs going off/wrong, I know if I mention the so-called DB process there would some disagreeing with me, but it makes me wonder what else it could have been. Funny thing was when I was kegging & a few bottles of my brew, I couldn't help thinking it was a fail but there are no off smells/taste, in fact it tastes fine, just cloudy.

I have decided I ain't going to mess with it, just let it clear up on its own.

[Tricky Micky]

11 minutes ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

It is strange to get 3 kegs going off/wrong

It is Phil, It could've been a perfect storm. I wasn't collecting any of the excess yeast cake between each brew (ale). So there's that multiplying factor. The power did go off during the second batch or third batch (not sure) and it may have been off overnight. I did note a strange ferocious looking krausen on the 3rd batch which almost blew the lid off the Coopers fermenter so the yeast might've been allowed to party a bit too hard.  It may have generated a lot of its own heat when the power went off and produced all those off flavours - My sanitising regime is meticulous so I'm thinking its not that. The only possible other cause I could think of was the dry hop addition - but that was only for one of the FV's which were in the fridge at the same time. Wild yeast infection ? I don't know enough about that.

[Tricky Micky]

It's interesting too that the 3 batches that were in that fridge were different brews - 2 being one style an ale and another being a draught. All 3 kegged brews had exactly the same taste and smell and it was even hard to distinguish between them - that's how overwhelming the "off" flavours and smells were.

[Classic Brewing Co]

1 minute ago, Mickep said:

It is Phil, It could've been a perfect storm. I wasn't collecting any of the excess yeast cake between each brew (ale). So there's that multiplying factor. The power did go off during the second batch or third batch (not sure) and it may have been off overnight. I did note a strange ferocious looking krausen on the 3rd batch which almost blew the lid off the Coopers fermenter so the yeast might've been allowed to party a bit too hard.  It may have generated a lot of its own heat when the power went off and produced all those off flavours - My sanitising regime is meticulous so I'm thinking its not that. The only possible other cause I could think of was the dry hop addition - but that was only for one of the FV's which were in the fridge at the same time. Wild yeast infection ? I don't know enough about that.

I just realised while my brew was in the Fermenting fridge at 20c my power went off for 24 hours, but I would like to think that wasn't the cause & also worth mentioning it was a fierce looking krausen for a few days, best I have had for a long while, possibly to do with the overpitch. 

I too have a very strict regime for cleaning/sanitising. The other thing is I boiled a heap of fresh hops & added the liquid to both fermenters 2/3 through the final fermenting period, 14 days. One brew is perfect & the other improving so not a dead loss,

[ben 10]

23 hours ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

how much is too much recycled yeast to add to a 23litre brew?

Did you count the cells?
 

If not you cannot really know how much you used.

[BlackSands]

37 minutes ago, Mickep said:

Curious BS, how long you gave this before it became a keeper. 

You may be surprised to learn, that it's not yet two weeks in the bottle.  But I have generally found (with some variation) that kveik-fermented beers generally do seem to arrive at a drink-ready state somewhat sooner than beers fermented with more conventional strains.  I did sample one batch at just 5 -days, it was definitely not ready, other times though I've sampled brews that do seem to have past their obvious 'green' stage at just a mere 8-10 days, and yet there's been others that seemed like they really needed longer before I'd considered them ready for consumption.   I'm expecting that by the time this particular one has aged another week or two it will have mellowed out some - for better or worse!

[Pezzza]

17 minutes ago, Mickep said:

I did note a strange ferocious looking krausen on the 3rd batch which almost blew the lid off the Coopers fermenter so the yeast might've been allowed to party a bit too hard.

The first period of time after pitch is the most critical re Temp when a lot of off flavours can be generated...  saw a great WhiteLabs Vid which mentioned this - not sure at what time Neva Parker discusses this point at in the Vid - but pretty sure that for most brews that the first 48 hours of working ferment is all pretty critical and if overly warm during that early time there can be trouble... but I do not claim to be an expert - it is an informative vid tho if you have the time... 

 

This link below re nail polish remove off-odour is for wine - but suspect that there may be a link to Bacterial Infection @Mickep mate...

https://www.seattletimes.com/life/food-drink/that-bouquet-of-nail-polish-remover-is-not-a-good-thing/#:~:text=That distinct smell of nail,a post-fermentation bacterial infection.

 

I don't think that pitch-onto-a-yeastcake should cause problems and automatically generate poor outcomes... other than what @Otto Von Blotto Kelsey notes regarding over-pitch which is absolutely correct... but a vast population of yeast for a Pillly can be beneficial, and for Dubbya and US05 that are not particularly big on input of yeast flavours... re-using or pitching the yeast cake seems to work out ok.  And also with HWs in my experience. 

However, one must note, that any infection in a Yeast-Cake.... then will clearly get passed onto the next brews, so if we inadvertently cop an infection in the first one and do two more... well then that infection will get passed on to whatever subsequent brew comes after unfortunately.

If the first sprinkle-yeast brew is good, and sterile practices deliver a positive outcome for that Brew, and the the backfill can be done without introducing any external source of infection be it wild yeast or bacteria, then pitching via introducing a new fresh wort onto a yeast cake should be ok.  I will be having another go at this later in the week hopefully.  But it is not for everyone. 

 

There are many ways to the top of the Brew Mountain, and each to their own, and what works best in your brewery is what you should use for sure 

 

 

Edited November 29, 2022 by Pezzza

[Classic Brewing Co]

1 minute ago, beach_life said:

Did you count the cells?
 

If not you cannot really know how much you used.

All I know is I added much more to this brew than previous brews. The thing is I probably won't bother to recycle yeast again as I have been brewing for centuries with fresh yeast & never had an issue.

[ben 10]

2 minutes ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

for centuries

hahahahhaa