What's in Your Fermenter 2022?

[Nannaspeed]

Not such a great discussion, Pale doesn't discuss well and I'd wager he'll look back and scratch his head....again.

I haven't felt the need to log on for years, but wanted to thank Kelsey and Greeny especially for their yeast advice, gained through looking through microscopes, experience and reading current info, as I do. Thanks to all the generous contributors to the forum, Muzzy for his good humour and spirit, Benny who I've followed for years, Aussie K, Shamus and Mountain Brew who all started all graining around the same time as me. Miss Christina's hops and partial mashing stories, and Black Sands for getting me stove top BIAB before I took the final plunge down the infamous rabbit hole! 

Love this hobby, love my beers, love sharing with mates who brew or not.

I'll probably go quiet again now. Cheers all!

[Otto Von Blotto]

47 minutes ago, Pale Man said:

That was a whole lot of waffle. 

Lager yeast especially Lallemand Diamond love a kick off at around 18 -22 C Then back down to recommended lager temps. Around 12 C - 14 C produces a nice clean Lager. 

Your argument is Mute mate. 

You dont work for Lallemand so your argument is mute mate. You do what they say......for a great beer. Not what you say. You actually have no Idea.

Yeah I've only got 10 years of experience brewing AG with nearly half of them lagers, and done a reasonable amount of research into yeast practices, but nah I don't know what the f I'm talking about Those packs contain about 200 billion cells at most, which is about half the optimal pitching rate for a lager into a ~20 litre batch if you go by the general recommended pitching rate of 1.5 million cells per litre per degrees Plato, which is based on pitching at or close to ferment temp, not 8-10 degrees warmer. That rate might not be the only reason for the instructions but it would be part of it. 

It's well established that yeast throw fewer esters at lower temperatures, and also that the majority of the yeast's influence on the flavour occurs in the first day or two after pitching. It's also well established that they have less impact on the flavour if more is pitched. It stands to reason that starting a fermentation with a larger amount at a lower temperature would produce a cleaner flavour, and in my experience it does. 

46 minutes ago, Pale Man said:

How about you post a few brews youve done lately. Instead of criticising everyones. It does my head in. 

Not criticising anything, just an observation based on my own experience. I have pitched lagers warm in the past. I prefer them pitched cold. If you're gonna have a tantrum about that, it's your problem not mine.

[Cult Of One]

On 11/18/2022 at 3:25 PM, Classic Brewing Co said:

All good, I do it occasionally, but I would only ever use it once, some brewers on here re-use it many times.

There is a lot of info on this topic, attached a couple for you. Cheers.

https://www.beercraftr.com/yeast-washing/

https://beginnerbrewer.com/harvesting-and-reusing-yeast-a-guide/

Well today I have rescued the yeast after my bottling session and made a loaf of bread with it. It has been proving well (its 27 degrees today) and Looks actually really promising. Not sure how it will taste but there is only one way to find out and that is to force my children to eat it and let me know

 

[Classic Brewing Co]

15 minutes ago, Cult Of One said:

Well today I have rescued the yeast after my bottling session and made a loaf of bread with it. It has been proving well (its 27 degrees today) and Looks actually really promising. Not sure how it will taste but there is only one way to find out and that is to force my children to eat it and let me know

 

There is no physical reason why it shouldn't turn out OK, if anything the bread could end up a little dense however that would depend on the amount used & your methods. 

At the very worst the kids will enjoy it & will need an early night.

[Cult Of One]

1 hour ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

There is no physical reason why it shouldn't turn out OK, if anything the bread could end up a little dense however that would depend on the amount used & your methods. 

At the very worst the kids will enjoy it & will need an early night.

I make bread a lot from scratch probably 3 times per week despite the fact I don't eat bread myself. But see the photos here it worked well and smelled amazing while cooking and cutting however the "bitterness"  was too much.

It tasted great on first bite hot and fresh loaded with butter but the after taste was bitter, too bitter to make it good . It was worth a try though and was only 50 cents worth of flour. 

[Tricky Micky]

This:

Leftovers in the cupboard sort of brew.

Woolies Draught 1.7kg

Coopers LDM 1.5kg

200grams Dextrose,

Yeast US-05 slurry from previous 150 Lashes clone.

24 liter volume.

ABV 4.9% Approx

We shall see.

Maybe a POR dry hop at FG.

Edited November 28, 2022 by Mickep

[DavidM]

Coopers Pale Ale

170g Golden Oats (all I had left)

230g Light Crystal Malt

200g Maltodextrin 

30g Galaxy hops

Steeped the Oats and Crystal for 30 minutes

Boiled for 10, then chucked in the Hops at Flameout.

US05 yeast.

In the brew fridge at 20 deg 

[Pale Man]

On 11/25/2022 at 8:59 PM, Otto Von Blotto said:

Yeah I've only got 10 years of experience brewing AG with nearly half of them lagers, and done a reasonable amount of research into yeast practices, but nah I don't know what the f I'm talking about Those packs contain about 200 billion cells at most, which is about half the optimal pitching rate for a lager into a ~20 litre batch if you go by the general recommended pitching rate of 1.5 million cells per litre per degrees Plato, which is based on pitching at or close to ferment temp, not 8-10 degrees warmer. That rate might not be the only reason for the instructions but it would be part of it. 

It's well established that yeast throw fewer esters at lower temperatures, and also that the majority of the yeast's influence on the flavour occurs in the first day or two after pitching. It's also well established that they have less impact on the flavour if more is pitched. It stands to reason that starting a fermentation with a larger amount at a lower temperature would produce a cleaner flavour, and in my experience it does. 

Not criticising anything, just an observation based on my own experience. I have pitched lagers warm in the past. I prefer them pitched cold. If you're gonna have a tantrum about that, it's your problem not mine.

You annoy me because you choose to go you're own way as you have for years. It's your way or the highway.

That doesn't necessarily work for beginners mate. There's nothing wrong with playing around with any yeast.

These days yeast and grain have a high tolerance to to brewing. That includes Lager yeast. Your regime of propergating and pitching low for you will work for you but not for the majority. You can in fact pitch a Lager yeast a bit higher. Download their yeast spreadsheet. 

I love this place and don't want to make people nervous.

Otto.  I'd rather call a truce than pathetic stuff. You follow a regime as I do.

[Pale Man]

I use Lallemand for all my beers Otto

And I pitch dry as they recommended to do and their temps

I'm not going to listen to you because you don't work for Lallemand.  And because my beers are so tasty. My yeast guideline is run from them.

Lol they stipulate to make up a Lager cream from 30 degree sterile water and pitch around 18 then bring down to lager temps. You're living in old school as if I would follow your advice.

[Pale Man]

Ah well apparently Ive had a tantrum. Maybe I have. I defend my methods. 

All the toys are going out of my cot. I've only been brewing for 30+ years. 

[Pale Man]

I'm throwing out Big Ted, Little Ted, Gemima............toys are out.

[Otto Von Blotto]

The only pathetic stuff is coming from you. Not once did I suggest my way is the only way to do it to get a great outcome. Not once did I criticise your method, or anyone else's for that matter. I don't really care if you want to do it that way or not, it's your beer. All I did was give a legitimate reason for why old mate was pitching the yeast warmer, and described my method and the reasons I use it, and you get all bent out of shape and carry on like a total idiot about it for reasons I still can't work out. 

It's well known that yeast rehydration is best done in warmish temperatures, nobody is disputing that but rehydration is a completely different thing to fermentation. Sure it grows faster when it's warmer too, nobody is disputing that either, that's why I do my yeast starters at room temperature and not 10 degrees. But since the yeast is already grown in the starter there's no point pitching it warm into the batch, and since I have the capability to chill the wort down low, and prefer the outcome of the beer when doing so, it makes sense to do it that way. Maybe other brewers who are making starters might want to try it to see how it goes for them too. 

How the bloody hell you can extrapolate making people nervous and losing confidence in their own brewing from that sort of discussion is beyond me. Or are we only allowed to talk about beginners methods here now because you decided it are we? 

I would rather end this ridiculous excuse for a discussion as well but don't ever attack me like that again just for making discussion about different methods. That's the whole fn point of the forum isn't it? It's quite insulting being accused of knowing nothing just because I don't work for bloody lallemand, and I will defend myself against this bloody nonsense. There's a lot more information about lager yeast and fermentation practices than a few instructions on the back of a yeast packet. 

[Shamus O'Sean]

16 hours ago, Mickep said:

Maybe a POR dry hop at FG

I would encourage that.  It is going to need something to give it a lift.  Maybe just dry hop one of the FV's so you can compare.

[Tricky Micky]

10 minutes ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

I would encourage that.  It is going to need something to give it a lift.  Maybe just dry hop one of the FV's so you can compare.

Shamus, great idea. I'll do that. I think I know which one I'll end up preferring. 

[Otto Von Blotto]

7 hours ago, Pale Man said:

 

These days yeast and grain have a high tolerance to to brewing. That includes Lager yeast. Your regime of propergating and pitching low for you will work for you but not for the majority. You can in fact pitch a Lager yeast a bit higher. Download their yeast spreadsheet

The method would work for anyone if they did it. I agree it wouldn't work if they're just pitching one dry packet, but I never suggested it would. It would probably work if they pitched 2 or 3 packets, but that's prohibitively expensive I'd imagine. 

Like I said I've pitched lagers warm in the past and prefer them pitched cold. That's about the extent of my initial comments on it. I make starters for more reasons than that.its also to save money by reusing it

[Tricky Micky]

22 hours ago, Mickep said:

This:

Leftovers in the cupboard sort of brew.

Woolies Draught 1.7kg

Coopers LDM 1.5kg

200grams Dextrose,

Yeast US-05 slurry from previous 150 Lashes clone.

24 liter volume.

ABV 4.9% Approx

We shall see.

Maybe a POR dry hop at FG.

I've got this going now and was going to try a Por dry hop but haven't got any. I've got bundles of other hops as follows: 

Tettnanger, Willamette, Secret, Amarillo, eclipse, and Super Pride. I'm a bit gun shy of the Super P even in the dry hop (had some really bad experiences in the past with this one, not with dry hopping mind) Would any of the above suit this pubby, swilly, sorta beer ya reckon? 

[Classic Brewing Co]

6 minutes ago, Mickep said:

I've got this going now and was going to try a Por dry hop but haven't got any. I've got bundles of other hops as follows: 

Tettnanger, Willamette, Secret, Amarillo, eclipse, and Super Pride. I'm a bit gun shy of the Super P even in the dry hop (had some really bad experiences in the past with this one, not with dry hopping mind) Would any of the above suit this pubby, swilly, sorta beer ya reckon? 

I have used Willamette & Amarillo, both have citrusy flavours, Eclipse delivers a nice almost sweet piney, fruity flavour, personally I would use 2-3 & blend them together but of course I am no expert.

[kmar92]

Unfortunately I have had a hiatus in the brewery for various reasons. Today things were serious, so I put down a quick partial batch that I am hoping will come out really nice. I also have some Coop's tins that I need to use so started on that job.

1 x Coopers Aussie Pale Ale, 1 x Coopers Wheat Malt Extract, approx. 500g LDME, 400g Carapils steeped for 30 mins @ 65 - 70C, 25g Mosaic@14. I will dry hop with Mosaic and Simcoe. Yeast was Nottingham (yeah you US05 users will not like that).

In the ferment fridge @19C. Now I just need to fill that void in the fridge below it, that will be an AG brew I am thinking! The lighting affected the camera so it is far paler than it appears, estimated at 8EBC.

 

 

[Shamus O'Sean]

8 hours ago, Mickep said:

I've got this going now and was going to try a Por dry hop but haven't got any. I've got bundles of other hops as follows: 

Tettnanger, Willamette, Secret, Amarillo, eclipse, and Super Pride. I'm a bit gun shy of the Super P even in the dry hop (had some really bad experiences in the past with this one, not with dry hopping mind) Would any of the above suit this pubby, swilly, sorta beer ya reckon? 

By "Secret" I am guessing you mean Vic Secret?  Vic Secret and Eclipse are the dry hops in the Coopers Australian IPA.  That was a great brew.  I made the Coopers Extract version and an all grain version. 

I would dry hop with up to 50g of just one or the other, so you can get a feel for what each hop brings.  Otherwise do a 50/50 combo of up to 50g.

[jennyss]

I get a chuckle out of your photos of fermenters with tapes, and wires, and boxes stuck onto them. They look like patients in hospital! Here is my Brew no.3, a Coopers Australian Pale Ale with Brew Enhancer No.2, done back in March.  Although I am starting to include hops and other goodies; still no wires attached. Best wishes to all in the Coopers Community.

[Tone boy]

18 hours ago, Mickep said:

I've got this going now and was going to try a Por dry hop but haven't got any. I've got bundles of other hops as follows: 

Tettnanger, Willamette, Secret, Amarillo, eclipse, and Super Pride. I'm a bit gun shy of the Super P even in the dry hop (had some really bad experiences in the past with this one, not with dry hopping mind) Would any of the above suit this pubby, swilly, sorta beer ya reckon? 

Hey Mick,

I bottled a lager yesterday that I dry hopped with Super Pride at FG and cold - 20g at 2 degrees C for 32 hours.  Hoping the short cool dry hop will result in a less harsh result. 
If only I did that 4 weeks ago I would be able to let you know how it turned out!!
 

Shamus’ suggestion of Vic Secret and/or Eclipse sounds good. Maybe steer away from SP if you didn’t like your previous results with it.

[Classic Brewing Co]

18 minutes ago, jennyss said:

I get a chuckle out of your photos of fermenters with tapes, and wires, and boxes stuck onto them. They look like patients in hospital! Here is my Brew no.3, a Coopers Australian Pale Ale with Brew Enhancer No.2, done back in March.  Although I am starting to include hops and other goodies; still no wires attached. Best wishes to all in the Coopers Community.

@jennyssWhile your temperature strip indicates a reading of 20c you are fine with that even slightly higher but as the warmer temperatures arrive there will be a need to take steps to keep the temperature the same. You don't to start introducing 'off' flavours in your brew due to a too high temperature, more so constant changes in temperature.

I would imagine in your region the summer gets fairly warm & cooler at night.

It is not for me or anyone else to tell you to go & buy a fridge, temp controller/heat belt, but eventually you may have to consider it.

There are many ways to combat heat, ice baths, wet towels, fans etc but you would soon get sick of that.

It is a good practice to keep a reliable temperature gauge in the same room as the FV as your temp strip on the unit is an indication of the brew inside rather than the room temperature.

[Classic Brewing Co]

27 minutes ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

You don't want to start introducing 'off' flavours in your brew due to a too high temperature, more so constant changes in temperature.

Sorry Jenny I left a word out. 

[Tricky Micky]

12 hours ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

By "Secret" I am guessing you mean Vic Secret?  Vic Secret and Eclipse are the dry hops in the Coopers Australian IPA.  That was a great brew.  I made the Coopers Extract version and an all grain version. 

I would dry hop with up to 50g of just one or the other, so you can get a feel for what each hop brings.  Otherwise do a 50/50 combo of up to 50g.

Yes, sorry Shamus, I did mean Vic Secret.

Actually I might go with vic secret in one and eclipse in the other and compare. Cheers mate.

[Tricky Micky]

2 hours ago, Tone boy said:

Hey Mick,

I bottled a lager yesterday that I dry hopped with Super Pride at FG and cold - 20g at 2 degrees C for 32 hours.  Hoping the short cool dry hop will result in a less harsh result. 
If only I did that 4 weeks ago I would be able to let you know how it turned out!!
 

Shamus’ suggestion of Vic Secret and/or Eclipse sounds good. Maybe steer away from SP if you didn’t like your previous results with it.

Hey Toner, thanks heaps mate. Let me know how this goes. I'm keen to know because I stupidly bought a mountain of SP a while back when I couldn't get POR - so I have oodles of the stuff to get rid of. I like the sound of the addition going in at FG and cold. Those articles on what is imparted in the dry hop are really interesting - some suggest the first 12 hours is where all the lovely aromas and flavours are imparted. Thanks for your help mate, much appreciated.