What's in Your Fermenter 2022?

[iBooz2]

On 11/21/2022 at 9:24 PM, Mr Beer Goggles said:

Coopers Draught with a mini mash in. I've started the Diamond Lager yeast at 18 to give a nice welcome, I'll turn the dial down to 13 - 14 degrees over 12 hours or so.

Interesting concept @Mr Beer Goggles, given DL yeast preferred range is 10 - 15 C (not pressurized) are you aiming for a "steam beer" style here?  Would have thought if you were aiming for a draught style then no ale-y characteristics would be wanted.  Not being critical, just interested in what you are aiming for that's all. - Cheers.

 

[Otto Von Blotto]

9 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

Interesting concept @Mr Beer Goggles, given DL yeast preferred range is 10 - 15 C (not pressurized) are you aiming for a "steam beer" style here?  Would have thought if you were aiming for a draught style then no ale-y characteristics would be wanted.  Not being critical, just interested in what you are aiming for that's all. - Cheers.

 

It's an alternative method to get it going quicker if you don't have enough yeast to pitch it low. 

[Pale Man]

On 11/22/2022 at 10:25 PM, iBooz2 said:

Interesting concept @Mr Beer Goggles, given DL yeast preferred range is 10 - 15 C (not pressurized) are you aiming for a "steam beer" style here?  Would have thought if you were aiming for a draught style then no ale-y characteristics would be wanted.  Not being critical, just interested in what you are aiming for that's all. - Cheers.

 

For the main part fermented at 12 C, wort was at 18 C for a short time just to fire the yeast up a bit quicker.

[Otto Von Blotto]

Yep. It's not my preferred method for lagers, I think they taste better when pitched with a lot of yeast below the fermentation temp, but it does the job if it's the only option. 

[Pale Man]

48 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

Yep. It's not my preferred method for lagers, I think they taste better when pitched with a lot of yeast below the fermentation temp, but it does the job if it's the only option. 

I also have an issue with cooling. I'm only using a standard immersion chiller at the moment, so it takes forever to get down to lagering temps. So I'd rather pitch a bit higher than leave the wort to cool for hours. My last Pilsner was brewed this way and it was pretty damn good, so it will suffice for now until I can get my cooling down pat.

Edited November 25, 2022 by Pale Man

[Pale Man]

Vic Bitter knock off in the fermenter. Colour us deceiving, when I took a gravity reading it was exactly that VB colour. Can't wait to drink this one.

 

[Pale Man]

Also just in adding, Lallemand recommend initial propagation at 18 - 20 C

So I'm not too far off the mark, as long as the majority of fermentation is within recommended lager temps.

They recommend hydration at 30 C, so its obviously a very tolerant lager yeast.

Edited November 25, 2022 by Pale Man

[Otto Von Blotto]

That's an advantage of cubes I guess, I can chuck the whole cube in the fridge to chill it down prior to pitching. 

Most yeast is best rehydrated at 30ish degrees or a bit higher, but that has nothing to do with what type of flavours it'll throw depending on the pitching conditions. I'd imagine they recommend pitching at that 18-20 because there aren't 500 billion cells in the pack. 

I'm not saying the pitching warmer method doesn't work, just that I find lagers taste a bit cleaner when I pitch more yeast at a low temperature. 

[Pale Man]

1 hour ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

That's an advantage of cubes I guess, I can chuck the whole cube in the fridge to chill it down prior to pitching. 

Most yeast is best rehydrated at 30ish degrees or a bit higher, but that has nothing to do with what type of flavours it'll throw depending on the pitching conditions. I'd imagine they recommend pitching at that 18-20 because there aren't 500 billion cells in the pack. 

I'm not saying the pitching warmer method doesn't work, just that I find lagers taste a bit cleaner when I pitch more yeast at a low temperature. 

Good debate. My point is I follow Lallemands schedule for their yeast to a Tee. If they say pitch at 18 - 20 degrees I do that. That follows with getting your wort down to lager temps over the course of fermentation.  A little hit of 20 - 18 C is not harmful, in fact encouraged.

Edited November 25, 2022 by Pale Man

[Otto Von Blotto]

1 hour ago, Pale Man said:

Good debate. My point is I follow Lallemands schedule for their yeast to a Tee. If they say pitch at 18 - 20 degrees I do that. That follows with getting your wort down to lager temps over the course of fermentation.  A little hit of 20 - 18 C is not harmful, in fact encouraged.

Yes and that's fine. I'm just pointing out that they'd have those instructions mainly due to the amount of yeast in the pack. You wouldn't pitch low with that amount, but if you have two packs you could. 

[Pale Man]

3 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

Yes and that's fine. I'm just pointing out that they'd have those instructions mainly due to the amount of yeast in the pack. You wouldn't pitch low with that amount, but if you have two packs you could. 

I think they are talking about one pack in 23 Litres? I would easily pitch two packs in a 23 litre brew and get results I'm after.

Nowdays the myth of underpitching yeast is long gone. And the grain we get is very tolerble, in fact @Hoppy82 cuts down his boil to 30 minutes. 

Just saying the brewing times have changed. 

You're debate doesnt stack up.

Quote

 

 

[Pale Man]

Homebrewing these days is very tolerable, grain and yeast are so good. All grain brewers try to scare people out of it. but in fact if you have the gear its good fun and very very achievable.

[Pale Man]

Misinformation puts people off from being confident. Been there. Done it.

[Pale Man]

Anyway its science. Homebrewing people need to relax. I think my methods work very well, my beers are sensational. I'm a tough judge.

I think for the homebrewer its fine to pitch a lager yeast warm and bring it dow to temp and let just eat away for days.

Too much stress on here with people that think their opinion is the be end all.

Theres 50 ways to skin a cat.

[Pale Man]

34 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

Yes and that's fine. I'm just pointing out that they'd have those instructions mainly due to the amount of yeast in the pack. You wouldn't pitch low with that amount, but if you have two packs you could. 

Youre wrong mate and need to look at your information to people here.

[Pale Man]

Lager yeasts these days are sensational. Lallemand are first in the stable.

[Pale Man]

3 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

That's an advantage of cubes I guess

Never cubed a beer in my life. 

[Otto Von Blotto]

18 minutes ago, Pale Man said:

Youre wrong mate and need to look at your information to people here.

I'm not. Pitching lagers warm is done because of a lower amount of cells being pitched. It gives it a better chance of success because it will multiply and get going quicker at the warmer temperature. 

If you're pitching a larger amount, like 400-500 billion cells into a batch then there's no need for this warm start and it can be pitched at or below fermentation temp without any problem. I've done plenty of lagers this way and they've all been fantastic. 

I'm not saying the other way doesn't work, just that I prefer the pitch more yeast cooler over pitch less yeast warmer, and pointing out the reason behind pitching warmer. 

 

 

[Pale Man]

9 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

I'm not. Pitching lagers warm is done because of a lower amount of cells being pitched. It gives it a better chance of success because it will multiply and get going quicker at the warmer temperature. 

If you're pitching a larger amount, like 400-500 billion cells into a batch then there's no need for this warm start and it can be pitched at or below fermentation temp without any problem. I've done plenty of lagers this way and they've all been fantastic. 

I'm not saying the other way doesn't work, just that I prefer the pitch more yeast cooler over pitch less yeast warmer, and pointing out the reason behind pitching warm.

Pitching Lagers a tad warm is good for yeast propagation. Im not going to argue with you anymore, you do it your style.

Lagers are a challenge, especially all grain. I'm trying to nut it out. I love your input. I'll learn but Ill put my 5 cents in too. 

[Pale Man]

23 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

I'm not. Pitching lagers warm is done because of a lower amount of cells being pitched. It gives it a better chance of success because it will multiply and get going quicker at the warmer temperature. 

If you're pitching a larger amount, like 400-500 billion cells into a batch then there's no need for this warm start and it can be pitched at or below fermentation temp without any problem. I've done plenty of lagers this way and they've all been fantastic. 

I'm not saying the other way doesn't work, just that I prefer the pitch more yeast cooler over pitch less yeast warmer, and pointing out the reason behind pitching warmer. 

 

 

Yep, good on you. my lagers and Pilsners are delicious. Your opinion counts for zero.

Im trying to help beginners. 

Yeast hey, who would have thought.

[Otto Von Blotto]

25 minutes ago, Pale Man said:

Pitching Lagers a tad warm is good for yeast propagation. Im not going to argue with you anymore, you do it your style.

Lagers are a challenge, especially all grain. I'm trying to nut it out. I love your input. I'll learn but Ill put my 5 cents in too. 

Yeah, it is, that's why it's done when you pitch less yeast. If you pitch a lot of yeast you don't need as much propagation so it works fine pitching it at lower temperatures. I'd suspect that's why it tends to produce a cleaner flavour. It's not a massive difference but it was enough for me to keep going with it because I preferred it that way. If that counts for zero then so does what you say about yours. 

I'm not really sure what's so hard to grasp about that concept or why you completely overreacted calling it misinformation. There's nothing wrong in what I said. I didn't criticise the other way of doing it, say it sucked or makes crap beer or any other nonsense like that which would dent someone's confidence. All I gave was a reason why that method is done, and I'd like to think most reasonable people would interpret it in the way it was intended rather than blowing a gasket and going off on a ridiculous rant. 

 

[Cheap Charlie]

great discussion, appreciate points from both sides

[Pale Man]

2 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

Yeah, it is, that's why it's done when you pitch less yeast. If you pitch a lot of yeast you don't need as much propagation so it works fine pitching it at lower temperatures. I'd suspect that's why it tends to produce a cleaner flavour. It's not a massive difference but it was enough for me to keep going with it because I preferred it that way. If that counts for zero then so does what you say about yours. 

I'm not really sure what's so hard to grasp about that concept or why you completely overreacted calling it misinformation. There's nothing wrong in what I said. I didn't criticise the other way of doing it, say it sucked or makes crap beer or any other nonsense like that which would dent someone's confidence. All I gave was a reason why that method is done, and I'd like to think most reasonable people would interpret it in the way it was intended rather than blowing a gasket and going off on a ridiculous rant. 

 

Have you read Lallemands spread sheet? I expcect not.

[Pale Man]

13 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

Yeah, it is, that's why it's done when you pitch less yeast. If you pitch a lot of yeast you don't need as much propagation so it works fine pitching it at lower temperatures. I'd suspect that's why it tends to produce a cleaner flavour. It's not a massive difference but it was enough for me to keep going with it because I preferred it that way. If that counts for zero then so does what you say about yours. 

I'm not really sure what's so hard to grasp about that concept or why you completely overreacted calling it misinformation. There's nothing wrong in what I said. I didn't criticise the other way of doing it, say it sucked or makes crap beer or any other nonsense like that which would dent someone's confidence. All I gave was a reason why that method is done, and I'd like to think most reasonable people would interpret it in the way it was intended rather than blowing a gasket and going off on a ridiculous rant. 

 

That was a whole lot of waffle. 

Lager yeast especially Lallemand Diamond love a kick off at around 18 -22 C Then back down to recommended lager temps. Around 12 C - 14 C produces a nice clean Lager. 

Your argument is Mute mate. 

You dont work for Lallemand so your argument is mute mate. You do what they say......for a great beer. Not what you say. You actually have no Idea.

Edited November 25, 2022 by Pale Man

[Pale Man]

8 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

Yep. It's not my preferred method for lagers, I think they taste better when pitched with a lot of yeast below the fermentation t of criemp, but it does the job if it's the only option. 

How about you post a few brews youve done lately. Instead of criticising everyones. It does my head in.