ChristinaS1 Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 @MartyG1525230263 Sorry to hear that your pressure fermentation didn't work out. At least I had one good experience before I had a bad one. Yes, I think you are right. Next time I ferment in the keg I will do a larger hop stand addition. If I do dry hop, I will do it after it has cold crashed, and just leave them in there. Cheers, Christina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_G Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 Just now, ChristinaS1 said: Next time I ferment in the keg I will do a larger hop stand addition. If I do dry hop, I will do it after it has cold crashed, and just leave them in there. Yep the hop stand is a good idea. I still want to try to dry hop it though. But have to decide if I want to go through the whole pressure decanting process twice. FV to keg for the dry hop and then keg to keg to remove the hops. Unless there is another way which I doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iBooz2 Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 Another batch of Summer Ale went in yesterday, krausen has pumped up nicely by this morning, I so like this beer. Think I will do a Summer every second batch. Got a Coopers Mild Ale in cold crash mode in other FV and will probably keg that one on Wednesday so that will give me 2 kegs of Mild. I think = better buy a couple more new kegs this week. Cheers - AL 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenyinthewestofsydney Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 4 hours ago, ChristinaS1 said: After being in there for three days I went to retrieve the hops last night, and a similar thing happened, though I reacted quicker this time and knew what to do. It was still actively fermenting, which I was a little surprised about. Anyway, the smell coming out of the keg has changed and is not very good. I am suspicious it is contaminated. Would not be surprised if the grocery bag that I wrapped the hop cylinder in contaminated the thing, and that spraying with Starsan missed some areas. While I was lowering the hops into the keg a little voice in the back of my head was saying, "Abort! Abort!" But I didn't listen to it. Anyway, I will wait a few more days for fermentation to finish and then try tasting a sample, but I am not very hopeful. Cheers, Christina. Have you tried keg hopping Christina? After the thing has fermented cool down the keg then add them. I suspend them in a tea ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristinaS1 Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 36 minutes ago, MartyG1525230263 said: I did the same thing with my one and only pressure ferment and it ruined the beer. Has distinct twang and off smell. While it is drinkable it is not right and i will more than likely toss it when I have another brew to keg in a couple of weeks. So if it has not conditioned out it is down the sink with it. It has drained my enthusiasm for pressure fermentation. However, I learnt a valuable lesson and that is: when it is actively fermenting just leave it. 11 minutes ago, MartyG1525230263 said: Yep the hop stand is a good idea. I still want to try to dry hop it though. But have to decide if I want to go through the whole pressure decanting process twice. FV to keg for the dry hop and then keg to keg to remove the hops. Unless there is another way which I doubt. Bit confused. Did you open the keg you fermented in to add the dry hops (like I did) or did you add the dry hops to a second (purged) keg, and pressure transfer to it, and then transfer again to a serving keg? If you did the later, which is probably the right way to do it, I don't understand how your brew could have become contaminated. Not having an empty keg available, I opened the keg. Cheers, Christina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristinaS1 Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 1 minute ago, Greeny1525229549 said: Have you tried keg hopping Christina? After the thing has fermented cool down the keg then add them. I suspend them in a tea ball. This was my first attempt at keg hopping. I have not been kegging that long. I did have them suspended in something similar to a tea ball. I will try what you suggest with my next lager. Cheers, Christina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_G Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, ChristinaS1 said: Bit confused. Did you open the keg you fermented in to add the dry hops (like I did) Yep, that is exactly what I did. I actually did it twice under pressure. To be honest the whole thing was messed up. I tried too many things that are not part of my normal process. Instead of pitching a harvested slurry as I normally do I made a stater from a slurry and when it had not started in 24 hours I pitched 2 packets of kit yeast I had. Which meant I opened it. Then next morning I was concerned that I had put too much wort in the fermenter and covered the gas dip tube so opened it again. The next 2 days it was going gang busters then as it slowed I though I would dry hop. Released the pressure but could not get the lid off. Came back next day released the pressure took lid off and bingo all the trub flew to the top of the wort and I thought "that cant be good" I dry hopped and left it. After that I did a CC, and then when that was over a pressure transfer to keg. Tasted it and 1st thing was a distinct smell of skunkiness. I was and still am very disappointed. Only saving grace was I used hop cones that I got for free with some brew gear I bought and flipped so all it owes me is the grain bill and my time. So the issue is I tried too many new things the next brew will be pitched with slurry and left alone and will be done in my brew fridge at a regulated temp as well. Edited February 29, 2020 by MartyG1525230263 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristinaS1 Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, MartyG1525230263 said: Yep, that is exactly what I did. I actually did it twice. To be honest the whole thing was messed up. I tried to many things that are not part of my normal process. Instead of pitching a harvested slurry as I normally do I made a stater from a slurry and when it had not started in 24 hours i pitched 2 packets of kit yeast I had. Which meant I opened it. Then next morning I was concerned that i had put too much wort in the fermenter and covered the gas dip tube so opened it again. The next 2 days it was going gang busters then as it slowed i though i would dry hop. released the pressure but could not get the lid off. Cam back next day released the pressure took lid off and bingo all the trub flew to the top of the wort and I thought "that cant be good" I dry hopped and left it. After that I did a CC, and then when that was over a pressure transfer to keg. Tasted it and 1st thing was a distinct smell of skunkiness. I was and still am very disappointed. Only saving grace was I used hop cones that I got for free with some brew gear I bought and flipped so all it owes me is the grain bill and my time. So the issue is I tried too many new things the next brew will be pitched with slurry and left alone and will be done in my brew fridge at a regulated temp as well. Ah I see. Thank you Marty. I also trying several new things. For this second batch of pressure fermented beer I used slurry from the the first batch. I found it very difficult to collect the slurry from the keg and truth be told the yeast may have gotten contaminated in the process. I am going to buy fresh yeast and try making an oversized starter, and saving a portion for the next batch, as some others do on the forum. The process is less prone to contamination....The only reason I have not done it before is because I do not have a stir plate or glass flask. For now I am going to try to adapt it to the Shaken Not Stirred starter method, using a larger volume and a larger vessel. Cheers, Christina. Edited February 29, 2020 by ChristinaS1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_G Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 6 minutes ago, ChristinaS1 said: Ah I see. Thank you Marty. Also just thinking about it I may only use it for lagers as I don't dry hop those. I have not given up on it but I have to totally re-think the process and what is it I want to achieve. Am I doing it because I think it is a good idea and was curious or to improve my processes. Possibly with ales there is no need to do it as my process is good but lagers are a different issue. If I can save on lagering time it is an obvious benefit. But I am an old school traditionalist kind of guy and if it ain't broke don't try to fix it. I am a home brewer with plenty of time and maybe I just don't need to pressure ferment. There is a big bold world of grainfathers and robobrewers, unitanks and Kviek yeasts but do they improve the beer or are they just a trendy thing pushed by retailers to get our cash? I was absolutely gobsmacked on FB group where a guy paid $800 for a grainfather SS conical FV. I thought why? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journeyman Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, ChristinaS1 said: Ah I see. Thank you Marty. I also trying several new things. For this second batch of pressure fermented beer I used slurry from the the first batch. I found it very difficult to collect the slurry from the keg and truth be told the yeast may have gotten contaminated in the process. I am going to buy fresh yeast and try making an oversized starter, and saving a portion for the next batch, as some others do on the forum. The process is less prone to contamination....The only reason I have not done it before is because I do not have a stir plate or glass flask. For now I am going to try to adapt it to the Shaken Not Stirred starter method, using a larger volume and a larger vessel. Sounds like you guys have forgotten or ignored the golden rule of chemistry - ALWAYS change only one thing at a time. The enthusiasm for "Ooh, and I can do THIS, and if I add THAT..." is not conducive to good results. I've just startered (see what I did there? ) & after the first one didn't seem to do much, (I was expecting a Kraussen, not sure why, think I read it on here somewhere that somebody had a good Kraussen on their starter) I had the thought that maybe overnight was too long to leave it without shaking so this current one I did first thing and stirred it up vigorously through the day. I did find with the first one that shaking a fermenting starter is a great way to discover the plastic liner for the top that seals it is NOT actually fastened to the metal cap. So stirring hard enough to get foam on top and mix it in is my mixing of choice. After 24 hours and letting it stand, 1 pkt Nott had become about 2/3rd cm across the bottom of the 4 L jar so I stirred it up, stole about 1/2 litre and pitched the rest. Worked luvverly. The first try seemed not so active. Next day the wort was still barely active - I'm used to activity within a couple of hours and next day a nice Kraussen, so this time the starter got 250 gm LDME and a good spoonful of raw sugar. Pretty sure the gurus will tell me the sugar is unnecessary but the only times I haven't used it to fire up the yeast I've had sluggish performance. i.e. My normal is rehydrate the yeast in mid-20.s water with a spoon of raw sugar, effectively a starter. I tried just water to rehydrate and ended pitching extra yeast to get the brew working. What I'm saying is, in my limited experience, stirring is good but shaking you better be damn sure of that lid, and it seems you don't need to stir it constantly with a stir plate. Every couple of hours worked just fine for me. Edited February 29, 2020 by Journeyman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journeyman Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 52 minutes ago, MartyG1525230263 said: There is a big bold world of grainfathers and robobrewers, unitanks and Kviek yeasts but do they improve the beer or are they just a trendy thing pushed by retailers to get our cash? I was absolutely gobsmacked on FB group where a guy paid $800 for a grainfather SS conical FV. I thought why? I've been indulging in an "If only..." world of browsing the equipment and wondering what I might get if I had the cash. It's fun but then I go read up on what those guys go through to get a beer and think of all the extra cleaning and I come sliding back into the world where I might go kegging and probably leave it at that. There's nothing onerous about brewing with a kit, even when adding partial mashes for extra 'oomph!' to my beer. The single area I will probably tire of is bottling, but even that, cleaning one day then bottling the next isn't exactly a hard day's yakka. I also thought about SS FV but then thought... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristinaS1 Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 (edited) @Journeyman How much wort did you use in your starter, and how many grams of dry yeast? I use the Shaken Not Stirred (SNS) starter method. There is a thread on it. Basically it is 1L of wort in a 4L vessel, adding liquid yeast (so <100B cells) and shaking the heck out of it for one minute, then leaving it over night and pitching it at high krausen. It roughly doubles the cell count, and the new cells are extremely vigorous because they have not been exposed to sheer force of shaking or spinning, or so the theory goes. The problem with using the SNS method with dry yeast is that an 11g packet puts too man cells into 1L of wort, so you aren't getting many (any?) new cells. But packets of kit yeast are 7g and adding one of those to a 1L SNS starter works well. With the amount of fermentables I add to a kit, I like to use 2 packets of yeast (14gm) and if I don't have two, I make a starter with one. And yes, it is certainly possible to spend a lot of money on brewing gear. You have to be careful. When I moved to kegs I did get caught buying an expensive piece of equipment that I thought would be great, only to find I don't use it. Trying to sell it now but I will probably only get 40% of what I paid for it. Cheers, Christina. Edited March 11, 2020 by Coopers DIY Beer Team swearing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristinaS1 Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 (edited) Journeyman, I tried answering you but for some reason my perfectly ordinary post has been "Hidden" by they system. At first there was this message that it would be reviewed by the moderator, but now that message is gone but my post is highlighted in pink and is still labelled as "Hidden." Not sure what is going on. I have never seen this happen before. Has this happened to anyone else? I am curious if this post will be visible, or if it will also be hidden. Cheers, Christina. Edited March 1, 2020 by ChristinaS1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Captain!! Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 Did you say some naughty words @ChristinaS1 Like Morgan’s, Mangrove Jacks, williamswarn, or any other Sh!tty competitors out there???? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristinaS1 Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, The Captain!! said: Did you say some naughty words @ChristinaS1 Like Morgan’s, Mangrove Jacks, williamswarn, or any other Sh!tty competitors out there???? No I didn't. I don't even know what williamswarn is. It was just an ordinary post about Shaken Not Stirred starters. Edited March 1, 2020 by ChristinaS1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris! Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 On 2/28/2020 at 7:08 PM, Norris! said: I did some more dirty fermenting, this is my 3rd time doing this. I kegged a batch and then swirled the dregs up and removed about 2/3 of the yeast and dumped the leftover pale ale on it, from the cube...my heart palates every time I do this, but it is so quick and easy.....I hope I didn't put the moz on myself. The batch going in is higher gravity and similar hops as the last, which the dry hop was contained. It should be right(famous last words). This batch has reached final gravity, OG 1.061, it took less than 48 hours, I probably overpitched with the slurry. Sample tasted good. Kveikwho? Lallemand NE yeast slurry!! I want to try out dry hopping at a lower temp, I think @ChristinaS1noted that a lower temp can make the hops pop, around 15c I think, I have to find it and re-read before I try it. I have raised the temp up, will let it sit at that higher temp for a few days and then drop it down for the dry hop and then I am going to cold crash and fine this batch. I am worried if I don't fine it, it will be a red/brown hazy looking soup. I had a partial mind that the colour would look good and remind someone of red juice,but I am not game to try that just yet. I also want to use some hops that really remind people of a red juice not just tropical. Think red grapes, pomegranate, maybe some watermelon and colours and aromas like that, but a hazy pale ale. It might not work when I try that but, in my mind, all hazy's/NEIPAs don't have to smell and look like orange juice. But if I can clear this up and it comes out more red than coppery/Brown I will be happy and might try that red juice on another batch. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Captain!! Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 11 minutes ago, ChristinaS1 said: No I didn't. I don't even know what williamswarn is. It was just an ordinary post about Shaken Not Stirred starters. This has happened to Ben before but he was definitely swearing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris! Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 Coopers hates the shaken and not stirred method and will do everything it can to eradicate it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 42 minutes ago, ChristinaS1 said: Has this happened to anyone else? Yes, but I swore like I was drinking beers in a pub. Funny that we can be on a beer forum and not be allowed to swear...... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 The Shaken not Stirred method is absolutely fine for making starters. The secret is to shake the hell out of the wort to get it foaming prior to pitching the yeast. This ensures that there is plenty oxygen which makes the yeast perform better. Here is an article I read recently about yeast propagation. https://www.experimentalbrew.com/blogs/saccharomyces/yeast-cultures-are-nuclear-weapons 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddyBrew2 Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 I’m about to venture into pressure fermentation but I’m gonna go the conical fermenter route. Am thinking the fermzilla all rounder without the collection jar but reading Christina’s and Marty’s posts I may just get the one with the jar so I don’t have to open the lid to dry hop. Or did you guys just have issues cos you used a keg ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Instigator Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 Did an SG reading on my Sparkling Ale yesterday. Came out as 1024 and was expecting 1014. Ugh! Was thinking my first time CCA starter had fizzled, but also noted the sample itself was seriously fizzy. I knew it was accounting for some of the extra reading, but 10 points? Even bouncing the hydrometer in the sample didn't seem to help. Anyway, left it overnight and it was down to 1014 today. Phew! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_G Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 4 hours ago, PaddyBrew2 said: Christina’s and Marty’s posts I may just get the one with the jar so I don’t have to open the lid to dry hop. 100% the way to go. If you want to pressure ferment as a regular thing get the conical with the jar so you can remove the trub and fill with hops. I did it as a bit of an experiment and was not convinced but sure I can adapt it. I just need to be patient and not rush the process. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristinaS1 Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 (edited) @PaddyBrew2 If you want to collect yeast from the cone or add hops without adding oxygen, the jar makes it easy. I you save yeast from starters and don't mind opening the fermenter to add hops, then you don't need the jar. Not sure how much extra the jar costs. The big negative for the Fermzilla is that it is plastic and so has a limited lifespan in terms of fermenting under pressure, so that is something to think about. Apparently the date at which it is not longer considered safe for pressure fermentation is stamped on the side; it is two years from the date of manufacture. If you get one, you want to make sure it hasn't been sitting around on a store shelf for months. Ask yourself why you want to ferment under pressure. I think fermenting under pressure is best suited to making lagers +/- NEIPAs. If you are not a lager drinker, or only make them occasionally, you might want to use a keg instead, as they are multipurpose, and impervious to light. If your main reason for wanting to ferment under pressure is so that you can make ales without temp control, kviek yeast is another option. I am kind of envious of Marty's 25L keg. Personally I am going to keep making 17L batches of lager in my 19L kegs, because that is what I already own. I will figure out how to work within their limitations. Cheers, Christina. Edited March 1, 2020 by ChristinaS1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristinaS1 Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 8 hours ago, Ben 10 said: Yes, but I swore like I was drinking beers in a pub. Funny that we can be on a beer forum and not be allowed to swear...... Interesting. No swearing in my post. I see my post is still hidden. The moderator likely won't be in to check it until Monday; it may be low on their list of priorities. I just find it so weird. It would be nice to know why it got blocked. I am a bit annoyed about being censored.... Cheers, Christina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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