What's in Your Fermenter? 2020

[iBooz2]

@ozlizard As JM suggests, the siphon racking method but using a bottling jigger as this would be no different oxygen wise than filling from the tap (with bottling jigger)

I use that 8 mm OD EVA beer line as it fits snugly into the top of the coopers bottling jigger.  And I dry hop commando.

Cheers - AL

Edited March 3, 2020 by iBooz2
(with bottling jigger)

[Cassius]

11 minutes ago, Journeyman said:

Tip to self: Don't go commando hops!

I went commando lemon peel for my Citruis Sail Saison. It wasn't until I was sloshing some sterilising solution around that I washed an errant peel back out of the tap hole. Not sure what would have happened if I'd pitched another brew without removing that peel, but I won't be going commando again any time soon.

[Journeyman]

9 minutes ago, iBooz2 said:

@ozlizard As JM suggests, the siphon racking method but using a bottling jigger as this would be no different oxygen wise than filling from the tap (with bottling jigger)

I use that 8 mm OD EVA beer line as it fits snugly into the top of the coopers bottling jigger.  And I dry hop commando.

Cheers - AL

I haven't used it yet but I got some larger silicon tubing that fits snugly over the tap and bottle wand. I assume to use it as a siphon for bottling you'd need to fix it to the top of the FV somehow - maybe through the airlock hole if it has one? I wouldn't want to have an open FV sitting there while bottling, given the opportunistic nature of them there yeasty buggers...

[iBooz2]

16 minutes ago, Cassius said:

I went commando lemon peel for my Citruis Sail Saison. It wasn't until I was sloshing some sterilising solution around that I washed an errant peel back out of the tap hole. Not sure what would have happened if I'd pitched another brew without removing that peel, but I won't be going commando again any time soon.

The Coopers FV tap should be dismantled and cleaned every time anyway, that is the beauty of their design.  If using another FV with ordinary $2 tap like I have on one of my fermentation drums, then best to have a couple of taps/washers and change them over each time.  My spare taps & washers soak in a sealed jar of perc until they a required next batch.

Cheers - AL

[iBooz2]

19 minutes ago, Journeyman said:

I haven't used it yet but I got some larger silicon tubing that fits snugly over the tap and bottle wand. I assume to use it as a siphon for bottling you'd need to fix it to the top of the FV somehow - maybe through the airlock hole if it has one? I wouldn't want to have an open FV sitting there while bottling, given the opportunistic nature of them there yeasty buggers...

If using a Coopers FV, you could just sneak the sanitised siphon hose end down between lid and side wall until its just above the trub.  Leave lid clips on to keep some firmness there and feed the hose about halfway between the clips as there should be enough give in plastic at that point and would work OK I reckon.

Cheers - AL

[Cassius]

6 minutes ago, iBooz2 said:

The Coopers FV tap should be dismantled and cleaned every time anyway, that is the beauty of their design.  If using another FV with ordinary $2 tap like I have on one of my fermentation drums, then best to have a couple of taps/washers and change them over each time.  My spare taps & washers soak in a sealed jar of perc until they a required next batch.

Cheers - AL

I think a lot of my processes would make some of the more meticulous forum-goers shudder. I'm not ignorant of the potential ramifications; just apathetic. It will likely take a spoiled batch for me to up my game but I'm 16 batches in without issue. I tell myself it's because I'm time-poor but honestly I'm just lazy. Still using the same water/bleach/vinegar sterilising solution I've used the entire time and still only rinse my bottles with cold water twice straight after drinking and then sit with residual water in them until I slosh some water/bleach/vinegar around right before the next bottling. 

[ozlizard]

Well  bottling completed. Tried the tilt method but that didn't work so siphoned it, which was painful and slow! Won't be going commando any time soon when bottling, might be ok if you are kegging. Wasteful too, only ended up with 21 bottles

[Journeyman]

5 minutes ago, ozlizard said:

Wasteful too, only ended up with 21 bottles

We need an "OUCH!" smiley. I do 20L batches and usually get 25 - 27 bottles from them.

[Otto Von Blotto]

No better with kegging, the bloody hop matter blocks the kegs up, or at least it can. 

If I'm feeling lazy I'll commando dry hop but I'm usually not using the amounts used in a NEIPA. Usually I just use tea strainer balls which keep most of it contained. 

[Titan]

4 hours ago, ozlizard said:

About to bottle my NEIPA but because I went commando with the dry hopping the trub is up to the top of the bung. Any issues with this or is there a way to avoid getting too many floaties in the bottles?

Cold crash or not?

[ozlizard]

33 minutes ago, Titan said:

Cold crash or not?

No cold crash. I think that would not be desirable with a NEIPA as it's meant to be cloudy although in this case dropping some of the hop residue out probably would have been a good thing!

[Beerlust]

9 hours ago, Journeyman said:

1. Where do you brew? Kitchen, laundry etc? What is close by you?

My brew day largely consists of switching stances between stovetop & oven in front of me & the kitchen sink directly behind me.

9 hours ago, Journeyman said:

2. How are you re-using yeast? Pitching slurry into wort cleaned or otherwise? On a FB brew page some guys apparently just pour their wort onto the previous brew trub.

Stored slurry rinsed once usually. Timeframes alter between re-use though, so that could be my issue. You can certainly pour a fresh wort directly onto the yeast cake from a previous brew. I've done it twice & worked fine both times. It is an overpitch though as Norris mentioned & with some brews there can be flavour issues that arise from doing that.

9 hours ago, Journeyman said:

3. What effects are you seeing with fresh yeast packets? How son do they appear?

Unfortunately with yeast it's always a waiting game after you pitch. Generally if you haven't noticed obvious signs in the fermenter that the brew has begun actively fermenting within 24hrs there's a better than fair chance you'll have a problem with the ferment. A number of scenarios can be the cause of this. If you're interested in my views about this I'm more than willing to share them. They are mainly documented facts anyways.

9 hours ago, Journeyman said:

...Why the different methods in the same brew?

I hadn't dry pitched yeast for a very long time, so wanted to test that out again. I don't recall having any problems from dry pitching yeasts in the past & many guys & gals regularly still dry pitch yeast without issues. I switched to rehydration on the back of recommendations & literature suggesting cell count losses, so just wanted to try it again. Although it was pitched in conjunction with a rehydrated portion, no issues have arisen & the ferment began fairly quickly for a higher OG wort & this yeast strain vs normal periods I have experienced with it. I'm not suggesting yes or no, just stating an observation.

9 hours ago, Journeyman said:

...From what I've been reading, pitching rate doesn't seem to be the reason for a fast start to fermenting - the yeast still has to go through a reproductive phase before the O2 drops enough for it to roll up to work.

Sorry mate it does. Your starting cell count will affect how many extra cells the pitched volume of yeast has to create before being able to completely ferment out the wort. The "lag phase" as it is known will increase the lower your starting count is when pitched & be reduced by increasing that initial pitching volume.

A short article Chris White (from White Labs Yeast) wrote a while back that is easy to understand...

BYO: Fermentation Timeline

For the more advanced, the following link (from my saved online encyclopedia! ) will go into much more detail about the aerobic & anaerobic respiration/activity of yeast & dispel many rumours about the absolute need for an abundance of oxygen to be present at the beginning of primary fermentation to successfully make good beer (among numerous other things). Quite technical, but a terrific article (IMHO).

The Biochemistry of Yeast - Aerobic Fermentation

My problems don't appear to stem from a lack of knowledge, just my practical application of best practices at times. Something I admit I need to work on.

I hope some find the articles helpful.

Lusty.

Edited March 3, 2020 by Beerlust

[Titan]

17 minutes ago, ozlizard said:

No cold crash. I think that would not be desirable with a NEIPA as it's meant to be cloudy although in this case dropping some of the hop residue out probably would have been a good thing!

If you can cold crash it. Will compact yeast cake, then pour of 500ml of wort and disgard first 500ml then bottle rest.

Edited March 3, 2020 by Titan

[ChristinaS1]

3 hours ago, ozlizard said:

No cold crash. I think that would not be desirable with a NEIPA as it's meant to be cloudy although in this case dropping some of the hop residue out probably would have been a good thing!

I don't think it is wise to dry hop commando, especially with the amounts used in a NEIPA, and not cold crash for a good week, particularly if you bottle. Hop particles will end up in the bottles and act as nucleation sites, and possibly also release enzymes leading to further attenuation in the bottle, aka hop creep. Risky for over-carbonation. I suggest you put your bottles in the fridge as soon as they are carbonated, which is probably a good idea anyway for a NEIPA. 

Cheers,

Christina. 

Edited March 3, 2020 by ChristinaS1

[ChristinaS1]

Put this on this morning, to replace Spunded Lager #2, which became contaminated when I opened the keg to dry hop during active fermentation.

 

Saaz & Mt Hood Lager

Spunded Lager #3

 

1.7kg Mexican Cervesa

1.25kg Superior Pale Ale malt 

200gm Carapils 

150 gm dextrose

 

8gm Mt Hood x 20 minute boil 

30gm Mt Hood x 5 minutes

24gm Saaz @ 185F x 20 minute hop stand

12gm Mt Hood @ 185F x 20 minute hop stand

16gm Saaz keg hop

8gm Mt Hood keg hop

10mL Clarity Ferm

17L RO water

Mangrove Jack's M76 Barvarian Lager yeast in a Shaken Not Stirred starter

 

OG 1.048; FG 1.011; ABV 4.9% keg; IBU 34; EBC 7.3; BU:GU 0.71.

 

This time I won't dry hop until after the beer has been CC, as I don't want a repeat of the overflowing that happened last time.   I will drop them in when I open the keg to add the gelatin; the hops will just stay in there until the keg blows. 

 

No pressure applied for the first 10 hours, to allow the yeast to establish. Diacetyl doesn't start forming until the 10 hour point. I will apply 10PSI at that time, for the remainder of fermentation. The pressure will suppress production of diacetyl. 

 

Cheers,

 

Christina.

[Marty_G]

2 hours ago, ChristinaS1 said:

This time I won't dry hop until after the beer has been CC, as I don't want a repeat of the overflowing that happened last time. 

Great idea, I will have ago at the Pressure ferment again with my next batch. The 1st one actually tastes Ok is flawed but is drinkable. The next brew I have designed not to dry hop. I will increase the hop stand quantities pitch, set and leave it alone to do its thing. 

Edited March 3, 2020 by MartyG1525230263

[ChristinaS1]

22 hours ago, Journeyman said:

After reading the link you provided (I think it was yours) I plan not to beat it so much, just a bit of a stir to keep all the yeast in suspension until high Kraussen. 

Maybe you missed the part in the article where he say yeast will stay in suspension all own their own, until they have finished fermenting. No need to stir. In addition, opening up the vessel to stir is probably risky for introducing infection. 

Cheers,

Christina.

[Journeyman]

14 hours ago, Beerlust said:

My problems don't appear to stem from a lack of knowledge, just my practical application of best practices at times. Something I admit I need to work on.

I hope some find the articles helpful.

Sorry if I sounded like I was implying any lack on your part - I was interested in details to further my knowledge, not critique yours. 

So the half'n'half yeast wasn't testing anything but just what you had in hand?

I'll be having a read of them a bit later to day - thanks.

[Journeyman]

1 hour ago, ChristinaS1 said:

Maybe you missed the part in the article where he say yeast will stay in suspension all own their own, until they have finished fermenting. No need to stir. In addition, opening up the vessel to stir is probably risky for introducing infection. 

Good reminder - I recall that NOW...  Thanks.

[Cassius]

LHBS was out of Galaxy so instead I made a PaciVic Ale.

 

Canadian Blonde extract 1.7kg

Coopers liquid wheat extract 1.5kg

50g Vic Secret hop steep

Made to 23L

Nottingham dry pitched at 18 degrees

 

Will dry hop another 50g at 10 days. The Nottingham had a lovely creamy krausen at 20 hours. Trying out a few things I've never used before in this one so I'm excited to see how it turns out.

[Journeyman]

21 hours ago, Beerlust said:

A short article Chris White (from White Labs Yeast) wrote a while back that is easy to understand...

BYO: Fermentation Timeline

The Biochemistry of Yeast - Aerobic Fermentation

Both good but the 2nd one was more informative I think. 

[Shamus O'Sean]

Simple Pilsner SMaSH

• 3.2kg Pilsner Malt 5.3 EBU
• 65°C Mash for 60 minutes, 75°C for 10 minutes
• 90 minute boil
• 40g Hallertau @60 for 22.6 IBU
• Harvested MJ Bavarian Lager yeast

OG 1.042. 

Predicted FG 1.008 - Actual FG 1.010 for an ABV of 4.2% plus 0.4% for bottle conditioning = 4.6%

I spilt this brew into two craft fermenters.  One of the fermenters I dry hopped with the 68g of Riwaka.  I left the other fermenter dry hop free.  

After four days of dry hopping that brew, on lifting the lid, the smell is like faint terpentine, but in a good way.  Maybe this is too much Riwaka?  @ChristinaS1 queried my dry hop rate of around 7g/L for the half batch.  In the post, a by-product called A-terpeniol was mentioned.  Maybe this is what I am smelling.  Its name resembles terpentine.  A little googling actually confirms it.  However, A-terpeniol is considered a good aroma - similar to lilac.  The SG sample smelled fine and tasted good.   This batch will be bottled this weekend.  It, and its unhopped sibling, are currently in the middle of a cold crash.  The final tasting will be interesting.

[Beerlust]

8 hours ago, Journeyman said:

Sorry if I sounded like I was implying any lack on your part - I was interested in details to further my knowledge, not critique yours. 

So the half'n'half yeast wasn't testing anything but just what you had in hand?

I'll be having a read of them a bit later to day - thanks.

All good Journeyman. I took it as you implied & just tried to be open about my practices with the questions you asked.

The half & half yeast thing really proved nothing....& disproved nothing. LOL!  At least the buggar is fermenting very well & lag time was very short. The brew smelled lovely with what was belching out of it when I opened up the brew fridge door yesterday to have a look at it. 

It was actually a very simple recipe to put together & yet the end result could end up being really terrific. Time will tell.

Cheers & good brewing,

Lusty.

[Titan]

24 minutes ago, Beerlust said:

All good Journeyman. I took it as you implied & just tried to be open about my practices with the questions you asked.

The half & half yeast thing really proved nothing....& disproved nothing. LOL!  At least the buggar is fermenting very well & lag time was very short. The brew smelled lovely with what was belching out of it when I opened up the brew fridge door yesterday to have a look at it. 

It was actually a very simple recipe to put together & yet the end result could end up being really terrific. Time will tell.

Cheers & good brewing,

 

Lusty, many folks underestimate what part yeast plays in the brewing process. From a home brew perpective no1 in my book is cleanliness. A very close 2nd come yeast and its health. Study them. My brew day coming this weekend will be a wheat beer. I will under pitch because i want the yeast to give me the clove/banana flavours for the style. Manipulate the yeast to impart the desired flavours required. Maybe over or underpitch to achieve the correct result.

[Beerlust]

Hi Titan.

18 minutes ago, Titan said:

Lusty, many folks underestimate what part yeast plays in the brewing process. From a home brew perpective no1 in my book is cleanliness. A very close 2nd come yeast and its health. Study them. My brew day coming this weekend will be a wheat beer. I will under pitch because i want the yeast to give me the clove/banana flavours for the style. Manipulate the yeast to impart the desired flavours required. Maybe over or underpitch to achieve the correct result.

As mentioned in an earlier post, I have a very good grasp of best practices in general, but with yeast I have to be honest with myself that I am not always re-using stored yeasts within certain timeframes to guarantee successful ferments. If I had the ability to view cell counts of my stored yeasts before re-use I'd probably find some problems there despite the fact I generally pitch them into a starter to evaluate their viability to some level.

If you look at someone like OVB, he has consistent methods, processes, timeframes, brew original gravities, brew types, a very consistent schedule of re-brewing 3 types of beer, & a stir-plate.

I have nowhere near the consistency of process OVB has with his yeast cultivating processes & re-use, so in no way should I expect the same level of consistency. I understand this & to maintain my various strains to a higher viability even when not planning to use them on a brew I probably need to put them through a starter ferment as a means of maintaining them in good health in readiness for a brew.

P.S. Yep understand the underpitch with wheat beers to help throw the ester. On the other side of the wheat beer coin a more consistent pitching rate with some wheat beer yeast strains fermented at a much lower temp (around 18°-19°C) will help to throw the clove-like character often wanted in certain wheat beer styles. 

Cheers,

Lusty.

Edited March 4, 2020 by Beerlust