Brew Day What Have Ya Got - 2023

[Aussiekraut]

2 hours ago, Pale Man said:

Coopers Brew A IPA with 3.5 kilo of Gladfeild Ale Malt. I'll dry hop with 30 grams of Cashmere and 30 grams of Citra.

 

That's a lot of grain. Then again, it's an IPA, so ABV should be a little higher.

[Pale Man]

Just now, Aussiekraut said:

That's a lot of grain. Then again, it's an IPA, so ABV should be a little higher.

Brew Father brings it in around 5.5% abv in the keg. Which is about correct for an American IPA style.

[Pale Man]

I also find that Coopers cans tend to be overly bittered, so the extra malt should round the edge off. 

[Aussiekraut]

10 minutes ago, Pale Man said:

I also find that Coopers cans tend to be overly bittered, so the extra malt should round the edge off. 

I just thought 3.5kg as "half" of the fermentables was a little more than I expected. I normally use 5kg for a batch and end up around the 5% mark, sometimes more, sometimes less, depending on the grain. But 5.5 is quite in the range, actually a little lower than most IPAs.

[Pale Man]

15 minutes ago, Aussiekraut said:

I just thought 3.5kg as "half" of the fermentables was a little more than I expected. I normally use 5kg for a batch and end up around the 5% mark, sometimes more, sometimes less, depending on the grain. But 5.5 is quite in the range, actually a little lower than most IPAs.

I always brew on the big side of things. Low alcohol beers dont tickle my fancy. Having said that mashing fermentables out of grain youre always going to need more weight than dry or liquid extracts as they are concentrated and obviously grains arent. To me it adds an extra freshness to a can and rids that twang that concentrate comes with.

Edited October 1, 2023 by Pale Man

[Back Brewing]

1 hour ago, Aussiekraut said:

This is the cold extracted wort boiling away happily. It's in the cube now and will go into the FV in a bit. It should finish in just a couple of days, due to the very low amount of sugar. I guess the yeast is just playing tiddlywinks. 

I have been reading about cubing lately because I am close to going all grain but what I have been reading is that when cubed it produces a lot more bitterness how do you overcome that?

[Aussiekraut]

16 minutes ago, Back Brewing said:

I have been reading about cubing lately because I am close to going all grain but what I have been reading is that when cubed it produces a lot more bitterness how do you overcome that?

Can't say I've noticed any additional bitterness. At the old place, where we had a pool, I didn't worry too much about using 150-200l of water to chill the beer as I ran it straight into the pool, which needed topping up anyway. The new place doesn't have such a money grave, so I have to be a little more cautious with my water usage and went back to cubing.  I cube on brew day, put it into the fridge at pitching temp and then put it into the FV the next day.

[Classic Brewing Co]

1 minute ago, Aussiekraut said:

Can't say I've noticed any additional bitterness. At the old place, where we had a pool, I didn't worry too much about using 150-200l of water to chill the beer as I ran it straight into the pool, which needed topping up anyway. The new place doesn't have such a money grave, so I have to be a little more cautious with my water usage and went back to cubing.  I cube on brew day, put it into the fridge at pitching temp and then put it into the FV the next day.

I have never noticed extra bitterness when I cube, always turns out fine.

[stquinto]

Brew day with a 25 litre batch of Timothy Taylor Landlord. The last attempt I made of this is tasted really metallic for some reason. That eventually faded but it was underwhelming nevertheless. If I can get the hop profile right I’ll be a happy (or hoppy … boom boom!) camper.

I didn’t have enough Styrian for the last hop run so I put Williamette in instead.

 

[stquinto]

Here's the recipe if anyone wants to have a go. The final set of hops should be Styrian Golding but I ran out. I upped the hops across the board a bit: 36g EKG, 36 Styrian Golding at 60 minutes in the recipe, I did 42g. 22g Styrian at 7 minutes, 22g Fuggles at 5 minutes: I did 30fg Williamette and 25g Fuggles respectively. The colour seems a bit more amber that I expected, next time I would bring down the dark malt to 30g instead of 40g.

Quite handy that my garage is now at 20 ° C anyway so I don't need to use the brew fridge. In any case I put it in the pressure fermenter. I can save that for a double batch of something.

Timothy Taylor Landlord Clone.pdf

A glass of Pezzza’s Pilly Larger to celebrate as well. Lovely drop! 

Edited October 1, 2023 by stquinto
Added photo

[Shamus O'Sean]

So brew day was yesterday (Saturday 7/10/23), I had planned something different.  A process called Parti-Gyle.  There are some different versions of this.  However, in my case, I wanted to brew one fairly strong batch, put the wort aside, and then use the spent grains to mash a second lower alcohol batch.  After that, put the original wort back in the brewing system for its boil step.

The first mash was a Duvel clone - 8% ABV.  The second mash I called a Quavel (Quarter of a Duvel) - 2% ABV. 

Part of the idea is not to sparge, especially the first mash.  With my usual process, I take post mash SG readings, and most of the time this number is pretty high: 1.080's for most brews.  It is the volume of sparge water that both extracts extra sugars, but at the same time, dilutes this SG back to the target pre-boil gravity.  But I did not know what volume of wort I would get at that stage, if I just drained the mash pipe without sparging. 

I figured, switch my Brewfather equipment profile to a "no sparge" calculation.  It turned out my calculations in Brewfather were completely stuffed.  The first batch OG and volume were heading toward being disastrously low.  Then the second batch, while volume was looking okay, the OG was heading too high.

Parti-gyle – Main brew – Duvel clone

Recipe

• 5.9kg Pilsner Malt
• 600g Dextrose
• 35g Cashmere 60 minute boil (24 IBU)
• 20g Saaz 60 minute boil (9 IBU)
• Lallemand Belgian Abbaye 

	WHAT I INTENDED	WHAT I GOT	AFTER ADJUSTMENTS
ABV	8.1%	4.5%	8%
OG	1.070	1.056 appox	1.072
FG	1.008 TBC	1.008 Maybe	1.008 TBC
FV Volume	23 Litres	13.4 Litres	15 Litres

What I did to try to fix it:

• I got about 20 litres of wort with a pre-boil gravity of 1.040 when it should have been about 30 litres of wort at 1.054.
• So I did some quick calculations and decided to add 700g of Light Dry Malt to get my pre-boil gravity up to 1.054.
• Given I only had about 17 litres of wort toward the end of the 90 minute boil, I should have revised the amount of Dextrose.
• Instead I added the 600g of Dextrose as per the recipe, for a post-boil gravity of 1.079, whoops a bit too high.
• I ended up transferring 13.4 litres of wort into the FV.  To which I added 1.3 litres of water to dilute back to 1.072.  Plus my yeast starter, finished up with 15 litres total in the FV

Parti-Gyle – Secondary brew – Light Pale Belgian Ale – Quavel

Recipe

• 5.9kg Pilsner Malt (This was the spent grains from the first mash)
• 10g Cashmere 60 minute boil (11 IBU)
• 10g Saaz 5 minute boil (2 IBU)
• Lallemand Belgian Abbaye

	WHAT I INTENDED	WHAT I GOT	AFTER ADJUSTMENTS
ABV	2.1%	4%	3%
OG	1.019	1.035 appox	1.027
FG	1.003 TBC	1.005 Maybe	1.004 TBC
FV Volume	20 Litres	22 Litres	28 Litres

When I saw the paleness of the mash, I added in 

• 300g Crystal Malt for extra colour and foaming
• 100g Carapils for extra foam

What I did to fix it:

• The gravity readings for this brew were way too high. Maybe due in part to the Crystal and Carapils Malt being fresh.
• I was not too worried because I knew I could always dilute the wort in the FV.
• However, I probably should have been worried.
• I got 22 litres of wort in the FV at 1.035.  To get that to about 1.020, I would have had to add over 16 litres of water.
• The FV (Standard Coopers) holds about 28 litres, allowing for using the Krausen Kollar.
• So I topped it up with 6 litres of water for an OG of 1.027.
• Not quite where I was aiming, but close enough.
• I guess I could have just accepted the OG as 1.035, but I was concerned that the IBU’s were very low and it could end up a sweetish beer. 
• Plus I wanted to make a low ABV beer using this process, so I was aiming to make a beer from a 1.020 wort.

Anyway, I got a few photo's but was distracted a lot, so missed some important ones.

Equipment set up, first thing in the morning.  Nothing could go wrong...could it?

First lot of wort transferred to cube and pot, to be boiled after the second brew had been mashed and boiled

Mash pipe, after being drained of first lot of wort. It drained quickly and looked funny compared to how grains usually look at this stage.

Second brew coming to the boil

Transferring second brew to an FV.

[Aussiekraut]

9 hours ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

So brew day was yesterday (Saturday 7/10/23), I had planned something different.  A process called Parti-Gyle.  There are some different versions of this.  However, in my case, I wanted to brew one fairly strong batch, put the wort aside, and then use the spent grains to mash a second lower alcohol batch.  After that, put the original wort back in the brewing system for its boil step.

The first mash was a Duvel clone - 8% ABV.  The second mash I called a Quavel (Quarter of a Duvel) - 2% ABV. 

Part of the idea is not to sparge, especially the first mash.  With my usual process, I take post mash SG readings, and most of the time this number is pretty high: 1.080's for most brews.  It is the volume of sparge water that both extracts extra sugars, but at the same time, dilutes this SG back to the target pre-boil gravity.  But I did not know what volume of wort I would get at that stage, if I just drained the mash pipe without sparging. 

I figured, switch my Brewfather equipment profile to a "no sparge" calculation.  It turned out my calculations in Brewfather were completely stuffed.  The first batch OG and volume were heading toward being disastrously low.  Then the second batch, while volume was looking okay, the OG was heading too high.

Parti-gyle – Main brew – Duvel clone

Recipe

• 5.9kg Pilsner Malt
• 600g Dextrose
• 35g Cashmere 60 minute boil (24 IBU)
• 20g Saaz 60 minute boil (9 IBU)
• Lallemand Belgian Abbaye 

	WHAT I INTENDED	WHAT I GOT	AFTER ADJUSTMENTS
ABV	8.1%	4.5%	8%
OG	1.070	1.056 appox	1.072
FG	1.008 TBC	1.008 Maybe	1.008 TBC
FV Volume	23 Litres	13.4 Litres	15 Litres

What I did to try to fix it:

• I got about 20 litres of wort with a pre-boil gravity of 1.040 when it should have been about 30 litres of wort at 1.054.
• So I did some quick calculations and decided to add 700g of Light Dry Malt to get my pre-boil gravity up to 1.054.
• Given I only had about 17 litres of wort toward the end of the 90 minute boil, I should have revised the amount of Dextrose.
• Instead I added the 600g of Dextrose as per the recipe, for a post-boil gravity of 1.079, whoops a bit too high.
• I ended up transferring 13.4 litres of wort into the FV.  To which I added 1.3 litres of water to dilute back to 1.072.  Plus my yeast starter, finished up with 15 litres total in the FV

Parti-Gyle – Secondary brew – Light Pale Belgian Ale – Quavel

Recipe

• 5.9kg Pilsner Malt (This was the spent grains from the first mash)
• 10g Cashmere 60 minute boil (11 IBU)
• 10g Saaz 5 minute boil (2 IBU)
• Lallemand Belgian Abbaye

	WHAT I INTENDED	WHAT I GOT	AFTER ADJUSTMENTS
ABV	2.1%	4%	3%
OG	1.019	1.035 appox	1.027
FG	1.003 TBC	1.005 Maybe	1.004 TBC
FV Volume	20 Litres	22 Litres	28 Litres

When I saw the paleness of the mash, I added in 

• 300g Crystal Malt for extra colour and foaming
• 100g Carapils for extra foam

What I did to fix it:

• The gravity readings for this brew were way too high. Maybe due in part to the Crystal and Carapils Malt being fresh.
• I was not too worried because I knew I could always dilute the wort in the FV.
• However, I probably should have been worried.
• I got 22 litres of wort in the FV at 1.035.  To get that to about 1.020, I would have had to add over 16 litres of water.
• The FV (Standard Coopers) holds about 28 litres, allowing for using the Krausen Kollar.
• So I topped it up with 6 litres of water for an OG of 1.027.
• Not quite where I was aiming, but close enough.
• I guess I could have just accepted the OG as 1.035, but I was concerned that the IBU’s were very low and it could end up a sweetish beer. 
• Plus I wanted to make a low ABV beer using this process, so I was aiming to make a beer from a 1.020 wort.

Anyway, I got a few photo's but was distracted a lot, so missed some important ones.

Equipment set up, first thing in the morning.  Nothing could go wrong...could it?

First lot of wort transferred to cube and pot, to be boiled after the second brew had been mashed and boiled

Mash pipe, after being drained of first lot of wort. It drained quickly and looked funny compared to how grains usually look at this stage.

Second brew coming to the boil

Transferring second brew to an FV.

Busy day

You brew with ingredients for 30l but use less water and then top it all up in the FW, similar to a FWK right? Is there a difference between doing it this way and using water for the full batch in terms of the finished product? Just curious.

[Shamus O'Sean]

13 hours ago, Aussiekraut said:

Busy day

You brew with ingredients for 30l but use less water and then top it all up in the FW, similar to a FWK right? Is there a difference between doing it this way and using water for the full batch in terms of the finished product? Just curious.

It sure was a busy and long day AK.  Although you have done double batches on the same day, with two lots of grain, which would be at least as busy.

I do usually brew with ingredients for a 30L batch, but use less water in the mash, and then top up in the FV.  And although I am using less water in the mash, I am still maxing out the capacity of the Grainfather G30 system.

However, this approach is limited when doing a high ABV brew.  The OG is limited by how much grain I can get in the malt pipe.  Therefore, I cannot get the higher OG, that I can then dilute in the FV.  So usually these bigger OG brews are done to 20-23 litres, including a sparge, without any water top up in the FV.  With the method of Parti-Gyle I did, there is no sparge.  Even though the contents of the malt pipe are allowed to drip-drain, the leftover sugars stay in the malt pipe.  They are then rinsed and extracted in the second mash.

What is quite weird is that I made a standard G30 process-based Duvel recipe using @stquinto's version.  It was suggesting to use a similar amount of grain, dextrose, water and hops as the Parti-Gyle recipe I put together.  Because the amounts were all pretty similar, I figured it should be fine.  What I did not consider is how the G30 works best.  And when I first stirred the mash was my first warning sign.  The grain had become quite compacted in the bottom part of the malt pipe and the upper 40% or so was mostly liquid.  By comparison, in my usual mash, the grain is fairly evenly spread through the liquid.  I figure the compacted grain bed drastically affected by efficiency.  The numbers indicate it was around 45% instead of my assumed (and usual) 75%.

One thing I did get a better handle on with this experience is my grain absorption rate.  This is because it is the first time I have done a batch where I completely drained the malt pipe after having done the mash.  Usually I am sparging into the malt pipe, as the wort is draining into the kettle below.  In Brewfather, the default grain absorption rate for the G30 is 0.8 L/kg.  In my case, I had 26.05 L of strike water, and once the malt pipe had drained, I collected 20.25 L.  So I figure (26.05-20.25)/5.9kg = 0.98 L/kg.  This explains why my boil volume is almost always about 1 litre less than predicted.  Interestingly, this issue was not really a problem because in the boil stage, my default boil-off rate was actually too high.  So the lower actual boil-off rate meant I ended up with a final volume very close to what I was aiming for in the recipe.

So now knowing that the G30 works best when the grain and mash water volume is balanced, plus having a better number for Grain Absorption Rate and Boil-Off Rate, I think my next crack at a Parti-Gyle process will turn out much closer to predicted.

[stquinto]

Interesting experiment @Shamus O'Sean. I like the idea of making two strengths of similar beers.

Concerning the compacted grain, I have started to stir the grain during the mash with the large metal paddle. That helps matters: if anything it makes the brew overly efficient.

Not specifically relevant to your experience in this case, but with Duvels I have found my last attempts end up slightly sweet, rather like other commercial beers of this category of Strong Belgian Golden. I reckon that the yeast I have used was not lively enough, even though the FG often ends up around 1.006

I'll enclose two recipes if anyone is interested. 

For my next attempt (hopefully this weekend), I will make up a starter of two Wyeast 1388 packs and a White Labs WLP570 (both are a bit out of date) and pitch them into a double batch of Duvel. I just got myself a yeast plate and am keen to give it a whirl. I could only get a 2l Erlenmeyer jar, hope it's enough.

 Duvel Clone Recipe Step Mash 25l.pdfDuvel Clone with step mash.pdf

Good luck on your brew Shamus !

 

[Aussiekraut]

9 hours ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

It sure was a busy and long day AK.  Although you have done double batches on the same day, with two lots of grain, which would be at least as busy.

I do usually brew with ingredients for a 30L batch, but use less water in the mash, and then top up in the FV.  And although I am using less water in the mash, I am still maxing out the capacity of the Grainfather G30 system.

However, this approach is limited when doing a high ABV brew.  The OG is limited by how much grain I can get in the malt pipe.  Therefore, I cannot get the higher OG, that I can then dilute in the FV.  So usually these bigger OG brews are done to 20-23 litres, including a sparge, without any water top up in the FV.  With the method of Parti-Gyle I did, there is no sparge.  Even though the contents of the malt pipe are allowed to drip-drain, the leftover sugars stay in the malt pipe.  They are then rinsed and extracted in the second mash.

What is quite weird is that I made a standard G30 process-based Duvel recipe using @stquinto's version.  It was suggesting to use a similar amount of grain, dextrose, water and hops as the Parti-Gyle recipe I put together.  Because the amounts were all pretty similar, I figured it should be fine.  What I did not consider is how the G30 works best.  And when I first stirred the mash was my first warning sign.  The grain had become quite compacted in the bottom part of the malt pipe and the upper 40% or so was mostly liquid.  By comparison, in my usual mash, the grain is fairly evenly spread through the liquid.  I figure the compacted grain bed drastically affected by efficiency.  The numbers indicate it was around 45% instead of my assumed (and usual) 75%.

One thing I did get a better handle on with this experience is my grain absorption rate.  This is because it is the first time I have done a batch where I completely drained the malt pipe after having done the mash.  Usually I am sparging into the malt pipe, as the wort is draining into the kettle below.  In Brewfather, the default grain absorption rate for the G30 is 0.8 L/kg.  In my case, I had 26.05 L of strike water, and once the malt pipe had drained, I collected 20.25 L.  So I figure (26.05-20.25)/5.9kg = 0.98 L/kg.  This explains why my boil volume is almost always about 1 litre less than predicted.  Interestingly, this issue was not really a problem because in the boil stage, my default boil-off rate was actually too high.  So the lower actual boil-off rate meant I ended up with a final volume very close to what I was aiming for in the recipe.

So now knowing that the G30 works best when the grain and mash water volume is balanced, plus having a better number for Grain Absorption Rate and Boil-Off Rate, I think my next crack at a Parti-Gyle process will turn out much closer to predicted.

I was wondering if it was possible to squeeze 3 batches out of the 65l BrewZilla once it is operational. So I could get 2 FVs filled and get an FWK to use at a later stage or give away. My thinking was that if I make them 15l each and then top them up to 20l, it should be possible and the system should be able to handle the amount of water needed. But it seems there are a few more things to take into consideration. I knew I'd have to adjust my recipes and my processes, unlearn a few things and learn a few more. I also knew that the BrewZilla apparently has a much higher boil-off rate than the Guten. Currently, I have a 4l/h boil-off rate but the BZ is said to have about 6.5l for example. I never even thought I might have to deal with a different grain absorption rate. With the Guten, I lose 0.6l per kilo of grain. Reading that in the GF you see between 0.8 and even close to 1l, depending on the technique, I think there is a lot more to adjust than I initially thought. It'll be a steep learning curve and I'm prepared for a few odd batches before I sussed it all out. Maybe on Wednesday, I'll get to give the BZ a trial run to see how much boil-off I actually get, although I expect the BrewFather profile to be fairly accurate. 

I know all the important numbers for the Guten, I know I need to brew to 26l in order to get 21-22l into the FV, because I can't get all the liquid out of the kettle and lose somewhere between 4 and 5l, depending on how good a whirlpool I do. I mash with 25l of water, sparge with 8l, which gives me a pre-boil volume of 30l (3l are lost in the grain) and a post-boil of 26l. But the BZ is apparently a different beast, so all my previous numbers are out the window. 

Interesting times ahead. Not sure if I get to brew on the weekend, depends on whether I blow a keg soon. I have 2 kegs left, 2 brews fermenting and once these are kegged, there is no room in the fridges for a new batch because I need the fridges to keep the kegs cool  

[Shamus O'Sean]

12 hours ago, Aussiekraut said:

With the Guten, I lose 0.6l per kilo of grain. Reading that in the GF you see between 0.8 and even close to 1l, depending on the technique, I think there is a lot more to adjust than I initially thought.

If I am right, the grain absorption is more about your grain crush than the system.  At the very least, if I were you I would start with 0.6 L/kg and see where it takes you.

[Shamus O'Sean]

13 hours ago, Aussiekraut said:

I was wondering if it was possible to squeeze 3 batches out of the 65l BrewZilla once it is operational. So I could get 2 FVs filled and get an FWK to use at a later stage or give away. My thinking was that if I make them 15l each and then top them up to 20l, it should be possible and the system should be able to handle the amount of water needed.

I am very interested to read how you go with that idea.  One day I will get a 65L Brewzilla.  Your test runs will help me out. 

I would think it is possible to do what you have in mind.  I get 30 L of wort into a FV (22 L of concentrated wort, topped up with 8 L of water) out of my G30 which would hold about 35-36 L full to the brim.  They are different systems though.  A clear advantage is the Brewzilla drains through the bottom, meaning you should collect every last drop.

[Red devil 44]

Brew day today, another double batch of AG Balter XPA Clone, first AG I’ve done for 2 months, stocks are getting low.

‘Just mashing in. 
I have 1 months holidays in November so will be drinking this. 

[Hoppy81]

2 brews today. 100L each of Lager and Stout, sneaky session ale while the Stout comes to boil.

[Hoppy81]

May have pushed the 125L to its limit haha

[Classic Brewing Co]

1 hour ago, Hoppy81 said:

May have pushed the 125L to its limit haha

Come on mate it's not quite full, top it up. 

[Hoppy81]

7 minutes ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

Come on mate it's not quite full, top it up. 

It was interesting when I put the 60min hop bag in...

[Classic Brewing Co]

2 minutes ago, Hoppy81 said:

It was interesting when I put the 60min hop bag in...

Looks nice anyway, is that post boil?

[Hoppy81]

11 minutes ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

Looks nice anyway, is that post boil?

Just at boil mate.

[kmar92]

3 hours ago, Hoppy81 said:

May have pushed the 125L to its limit haha

Wow, what happened when it did boil? Hopefully it was not a flood.