It's Kegging Time 2021.

[ben 10]

On 11/30/2021 at 3:45 AM, stquinto said:

river Ganges it was that murky

Any corpses floating past?

[stquinto]

47 minutes ago, disgruntled said:

Any corpses floating past?

That's what they were.... 

[Shamus O'Sean]

Kegged my VB Clone last night.

This is the first time I have got the closed loop oxygen free transfer going properly. 

• 5psi in the keg
• 15psi in the fermenter
• Connect beer line to beer out post of fermenter
• Connect gas line to gas out post of keg
• Connect the beer line to the beer out post of keg AND QUICKLY, BUT NOT AT THE SAME TIME
• Connect the gas line to the gas in post of the fermenter 

Scales are so I know when the keg is just about full.

[ozdevil]

4 hours ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

Kegged my VB Clone last night.

This is the first time I have got the closed loop oxygen free transfer going properly. 

• 5psi in the keg
• 15psi in the fermenter
• Connect beer line to beer out post of fermenter
• Connect gas line to gas out post of keg
• Connect the beer line to the beer out post of keg AND QUICKLY, BUT NOT AT THE SAME TIME
• Connect the gas line to the gas in post of the fermenter 

Scales are so I know when the keg is just about full.

mate  i don't see the point in what your actually trying to achieve their   

with gas to gas  and beer to beer  

if you connected the gas to fermenter   and beer out to beer out on the keg

your still achieving  an oxygen free transfer 

even if you left the  prv open so gas escapes from the keg,  the co2 created  will not cause an oxygenated beer

i just feel your creating a step that is not really needed 

Edited December 26, 2021 by ozdevil

[Pickles Jones]

4 hours ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

Scales are so I know when the keg is just about full

A good an interesting set up, a bit down the track yet for me.

However I am just about to start kegging after getting all the gear but I am still in the gathering information stage, so just a couple questions.

I presume that is 19litre Keg so how much beer do you put in a 19Litre Keg.

Do you use 1litre of beer to equal nominally 1Kilo.

Thanks 

[ozdevil]

2 minutes ago, Pickles Jones said:

A good an interesting set up, a bit down the track yet for me.

However I am just about to start kegging after getting all the gear but I am still in the gathering information stage, so just a couple questions.

I presume that is 19litre Keg so how much beer do you put in a 19Litre Keg.

Do you use 1litre of beer to equal nominally 1Kilo.

Thanks 

i'm a bit of dare devil when i fill my kegs  i usually get 19l + another 250mls   but i am playing with danger  , but i will pull a taster with in 1-2 days of kegging (pint size)   

most sensible people will fill between 18-19l  just have that head space

not sure what your meaning with the 2nd question

 

[Pickles Jones]

1 minute ago, ozdevil said:

not sure what your meaning with the 2nd question

 

Thanks for the info.

Shamus uses a set of scales to see how much beer has gone into the keg. I was assuming he was using litre of beer equals I Kilo.

[ozdevil]

2 minutes ago, Pickles Jones said:

Thanks for the info.

Shamus uses a set of scales to see how much beer has gone into the keg. I was assuming he was using litre of beer equals I Kilo.

now i get you

1l = 1kg

[Pickles Jones]

9 hours ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

This is the first time I have got the closed loop oxygen free transfer going properly.

Shamus, is the 15PSI in the fermenter enough pressure to maintain enough pressure through out the whole of the transfer process considering the pressure in the keg will rise slowly as the volume of beer is transfered, equalising the pressure in the FV.

Do you prime the fermenter with CO2 to get the 15PSI

Your picture doesn't show that CO2 cylinder is connected so is this after the 15PSI top up to the FV, if you do the top up.

[kmar92]

@Shamus O'Sean I sort of have to agree with @ozdevil on the pressure transfer. I do not understand why you have any pressure in the keg, I do pressure transfers all the time to avoid any O2 contamination and I normally just do 2 x lines, gas to gas and liquid to liquid and then the pressure ferment vessel just siphons fine. To me it is sort of counter-intuitive to have any pressure in the keg when doing the transfer.

[iBooz2]

@Pickles Jones I too along with @ozdevil (and I see @kmar92 has since replied too) think @Shamus O'Sean continues to go about this the wrong way (and I mean no disrespect here).  Its very simple - gravity is a b!tch so use it to your advantage.  No CO2 bottle required in this case.

All you need when the FV is higher that the keg - is: 

The FV has a higher pressure than the keg, the keg can be at ambient pressure i.e "nothing, zero, zip" (well at zero it will be 1.013 hpa anyway - normal air pressure). 

With no forced pressure in the keg from CO2 bottle or whatever and several psi in the keg (in Shamus's case 15 psi) simply connect the beer line to FV and then to the keg.

The pressure in the FV (15 psi) will push beer down into the keg until the pressure of the FV and the keg equalizes and then the flow will stop.

Before this "stop in beer flow" happens connect the gas line from the keg to the FV which will allow the siphon effect to continue, that is, weight of beer in FV and beer line will force beer into the keg and the gas out of keg via the open PRV or back into the FV when gas line is connected.

Once you connect the gas line from the keg to the FV the incoming beer will push the CO2 out of the keg back into the FV which is sucking by this stage due to the weigh of the beer flowing into the keg.

A simple closed Oxygen transfer occurs using that b!tch called gravity.

A different approach is required if the FV is not higher up that the keg you are filling.  That's where your CO2 bottle comes into play.

Edited December 26, 2021 by iBooz2

[Shamus O'Sean]

Thanks for the great feedback.  I really appreciate it.  By doing something not quite right, I get to learn heaps.  

@ozdevil, I am trying to achieve an oxygen free transfer without using much CO2.  Previously, I have done like you describe: Connect the CO2 bottle to the FV at about 2-5psi, beer out FV to beer out keg, leave PRV open or attached a gas disconnect to the keg gas in post to allow the CO2 in the keg to blow off.  But this uses good CO2, keeping the FV around 2-5psi un-necessarily.  Last time I actually used air pressure, instead of CO2.  I figured not much oxygen is going to get forced into the beer in the time it takes to transfer.  I have also done gravity transfer (and that's how I empty the Coopers FV).

@Pickles Jones, last night I put 18.7 L into the 19L keg.  I just allow 1 L of beer to equal 1 kg.  Is it actually 1.010 kg if it's FG is 1.010?

PJ, on this occasion, the 15psi in the FV was "enough" (but in addressing Kmar92's comment below, I was doing it wrong).  I put the double quotes because the 15psi is not "enough" to push out an FV full of beer on its own.  I found out a while ago, if you just put 15psi in the FV and connect beer to beer, it will flow, but eventually the 15psi will drop to zero and these PET FV's will start to contract, as the siphon effect creates a vacuum in the FV.  I imagine that with a steel pressure FV the flow will stop because the vessel cannot contract.  The 15psi just gets the flow started, then the siphon effect takes over.  In fact, and I did not realise it until doing this transfer, the psi in the FV and in the keg equalise almost as soon as you connect the gas line to the FV.  As iBooz2 describes, it is the siphon effect that keeps the beer moving.

PJ, I did prime the FV with 15psi.  Then I disconnected the CO2 bottle.

@kmar92, thanks for your comments.  I am now thinking that you are right.  There is no need to have any pressure in the keg.  My previous attempts at O2 free transfers were with no pressure in the keg.  However, they did not work.  The flow slowed to a trickle: Would have taken all night to transfer.  But, I might have done something else wrong with those attempts.  I recall seeing a YouTube video where the guy did like I did this time:  A little pressure in the keg, higher pressure in the FV.  That's why I put some pressure in the keg.  Next time: No pressure in keg.

@iBooz2, No disrespect taken, mate.  You give a great explanation of how this O2 free pressure transfer works.  I do not know why my previous attempts have failed, and yet last night's process worked fine.  Nevertheless, next time I will not pressurise the keg.

 

[Malter White]

After reading some of the previous comments I now feel completely comfortable in my choice not to do kegs. I still secretly want a keg system (I guess writing it here doesn't make it very secret) but it would do my head in if things didn't go smoothly.

[ozdevil]

14 minutes ago, MUZZY said:

After reading some of the previous comments I now feel completely comfortable in my choice not to do kegs. I still secretly want a keg system (I guess writing it here doesn't make it very secret) but it would do my head in if things didn't go smoothly.

your really want to keg dont you    lol.






 

[Malter White]

23 minutes ago, ozdevil said:

your really want to keg dont you    lol.

I seriously have keg envy, Oz, but I also know me very well. I'll set the thing up and possibly do something wrong and have beer spurting everywhere or beer not pouring at all and then I'll be cursing under my breath (and over it too), "Why the f*&@ did I think kegs was a good idea? F&*@ing f*&ked up sh17."
 

Edited December 26, 2021 by MUZZY

[ozdevil]

1 minute ago, MUZZY said:

I seriously have keg envy, Oz, but I also know me very well. I'll set the thing up and possibly do something wrong and have beer spurting everywhere or beer not pouring at all and then I'll be cursing under my breath (and over it too), "Why the f*&@ did I think kegs was a good idea? F&*@ing f*&ked up sh17."
 

I get that feeling every time I bottle hoping the heck I don't get Bottle bombs because I miscalculated the priming 

 

[Malter White]

1 minute ago, ozdevil said:

I get that feeling every time I bottle hoping the heck I don't get Bottle bombs because I miscalculated the priming 

Why I use PET bottles.  

[Aussiekraut]

4 hours ago, MUZZY said:

After reading some of the previous comments I now feel completely comfortable in my choice not to do kegs. I still secretly want a keg system (I guess writing it here doesn't make it very secret) but it would do my head in if things didn't go smoothly.

Don't worry about closed xfers etc. I put my fermenter on the kitchen bench, put the keg underneath, attach a long hose to the tap, which reaches the bottom of the keg to avoid splashing and let gravity do its job. I was worried as well about kegging and if I understand all this talk about disconnects and posts and gas and beer lines and whatnot but at the end of the day, it is very simple and easy and once you start, you will not want to go back to bottling. 

[ozdevil]

21 minutes ago, Aussiekraut said:

Don't worry about closed xfers etc. I put my fermenter on the kitchen bench, put the keg underneath, attach a long hose to the tap, which reaches the bottom of the keg to avoid splashing and let gravity do its job. I was worried as well about kegging and if I understand all this talk about disconnects and posts and gas and beer lines and whatnot but at the end of the day, it is very simple and easy and once you start, you will not want to go back to bottling. 

the problem with us humans we strive to get things better  

mate when i started kegging your method was the way i did it.

now if i dont use the pressure fermenter and just my coopers fvs   i run hose with a disconnect to the out post   that way there is no tube in the wort

but  this kegging is so much easier  specially if people find bottling a chore, i know i know  some of you dont find bottling a chore and its just part of the process 

 

[Greenyinthewestofsydney]

39 minutes ago, Aussiekraut said:

Don't worry about closed xfers etc. I put my fermenter on the kitchen bench, put the keg underneath, attach a long hose to the tap, which reaches the bottom of the keg to avoid splashing and let gravity do its job. I was worried as well about kegging and if I understand all this talk about disconnects and posts and gas and beer lines and whatnot but at the end of the day, it is very simple and easy and once you start, you will not want to go back to bottling. 

Yeah personally I think oxidisation from transfer if you careful isn't a problem. I have never had an oxidised beer from kegging but then again a keg hasn't lasted many months either. I do the same as you except I do purge the keg most times with co2 before filling so there is that blanket in the keg when I fill. Then lid on and gas it up and lift the release to purge the headspace a few times. Too easy.

@MUZZY you wouldn't regret going to kegs. Its easy peesy. I still bottle my yeast driven beers and high alcohol beers and I dread when it comes around to bottling them. However expect consumption to increase. I used to be able to limit my beers by putting only 2 bottles in the fridge. If they ain't cold you don't drink them etc. With kegs it's too easy to have 2 and then you think I might have another half. Then after the half your in the mood so you go eff it and fill up another then it's 3 and a half etc etc.

Edited December 27, 2021 by Greenyinthewestofsydney

[Malter White]

40 minutes ago, Greenyinthewestofsydney said:

@MUZZY you wouldn't regret going to kegs. Its easy peesy. I still bottle my yeast driven beers and high alcohol beers and I dread when it comes around to bottling them. However expect consumption to increase. I used to be able to limit my beers by putting only 2 bottles in the fridge. If they ain't cold you don't drink them etc. With kegs it's too easy to have 2 and then you think I might have another half. Then after the half your in the mood so you go eff it and fill up another then it's 3 and a half etc etc.

To me it doesn't matter if it's bottles or kegs. One beer is too many and fifteen is not enough.  

[Malter White]

52 minutes ago, ozdevil said:

the problem with us humans we strive to get things better  

mate when i started kegging your method was the way i did it.

now if i dont use the pressure fermenter and just my coopers fvs   i run hose with a disconnect to the out post   that way there is no tube in the wort

but  this kegging is so much easier  specially if people find bottling a chore, i know i know  some of you dont find bottling a chore and its just part of the process 

 

You make a good point here, Oz. Bottles can be a chore but I don't mind it too much. To halve the workload I only do long necks. I can understand it being tiresome if one was doing stubbies.

[Tone boy]

I feel like I’m extremely unqualified to post on this thread but thought I had better show off my Christmas beer bling. I received a 1 gallon “ukeg” from Santa (family). 
I know it’s just a toy and #notarealkeg, and looks a bit like a steampunk sculpture, but it looks like a bit of fun. It’s basically a vacuum thermos which is carbonated with those little 16g CO2 bulbs. 

anyway, as you were

[ozdevil]

27 minutes ago, Tone boy said:

I feel like I’m extremely unqualified to post on this thread but thought I had better show off my Christmas beer bling. I received a 1 gallon “ukeg” from Santa (family). 
I know it’s just a toy and #notarealkeg, and looks a bit like a steampunk sculpture, but it looks like a bit of fun. It’s basically a vacuum thermos which is carbonated with those little 16g CO2 bulbs. 

anyway, as you were

they do look intersting , but none the less   you might find it easier then to take stubbies at party

[Tone boy]

14 minutes ago, ozdevil said:

might find it easier then to take stubbies at party

I don’t get invited to parties Ozzie. 
I envisage it will keep me company while I watch the ashes on the couch