What's in Your Fermenter? 2020

[ChristinaS1]

3 hours ago, ChristinaS1 said:

20gm Amarillo @ 4 minutes with 20 minute stand before chilling

20gm Mosaic @ 4 minutes with 20 minute stand before chilling

Correction: I added the hops at FO, not at 4 minutes, but I did let them stand for 20 minutes.

Edited August 31, 2020 by ChristinaS1

[Beerlust]

Hi Christina.

30 minutes ago, ChristinaS1 said:

Correction: I added the hops at FO, not at 4 minutes, but I did let them stand for 20 minutes.

Just a quick question, approx. how long from flameout until you are pitching the yeast, & is the wort uncovered through this period?

The reason I ask is that this period of time is a very vulnerable time for the wort where a variety of spoilage organisms/wild yeast etc. can begin to establish themselves in a home brewing environment. I had some issues related to this back in my early days, & once I shortened this period of time, those issues disappeared. I also stopped pre-mixing my dry & liquid malt extracts before my hop boil, & began adding them after for the same reason.

If I've added hops @ flameout, I'll steep for no more than 5mins, then begin to cool which will be done by 20mins (usually). Even if there is a little warmth still in the hop boil wort, it can be helpful to dissolve any other extracts you may be adding directly into the FV.

Looks like a nice recipe. Best of luck with the ferment. 

Lusty.

[BlackSands]

A simple stove-top AG batch, a low-ABV ordinary bitter.  Was going to try out MJ's M12 KVEIK yeast but the LHBS was out!  Next time!  Using Rakau hops in this one (on sale!).  Have been somewhat underwhelmed by them in the past but I thought if I double up the dosage I might get a better sense of what they're all about. 

• 2.7kg GF Ale Malt
• 300g Med Crystal
• 100g Biscuit Malt
• 100g Roasted Wheat
• 15g Sticklebract @30mins
• 25g Rakau @10 mins
• 25g Rakau @2mins
• Nottingham

Good efficiency this time - 80% resulting in an OG of 1.036.  Wort tastes quite bitter?  Was supposed to be around 26 IBU but seems a lot more that.  I assume it's because the sugar content is lower than what I'm used to.  Anyway...  let's see in a month or so how this one turns out.   

 

[Pezzza]

14 hours ago, ChristinaS1 said:

7gm Coopers Ale/lager blend + 7gm Cooper yeast dry pitched @ 1:45p.m

Just straight sprinkle of dry yeast from the sachet on top of the Wort Christina? 

[Pezzza]

11 hours ago, Beerlust said:

The reason I ask is that this period of time is a very vulnerable time for the wort where a variety of spoilage organisms/wild yeast etc. can begin to establish themselves in a home brewing environment.

Hey there Lusty,

think we may have briefly discussed this in the past... I do "desert no-chill" with the big SS vessel's (Mash Tun/Boil Kettle) lid placed firmly on at the end of the boil so it is a steaming hot cavity... a clean new sun dried tea towel on top and then weight the lid down with 20kg weights... and let cool down overnight... never had a problem.  Earlier on when researching this I saw in Palmer ok to leave overnight and from memory @porschemad911 John had done this numerously also...

Agree wholeheartedly with you regards a fresh wort and a dangerous time for colonisation by wild yeasts...  but if you keep everything inside the hot vessel sterile (clean/boiled/steamed) and leave the lid on until ready to be cleaned - I pipe into the FVs and pitch directly - not had any issues.

I do like the idea of steeping with hops post-boil... and am a bit paranoid about taking the lid on and off at that time...  I steep fairly short -- with the lid on -- if steeping... and most of the time there is a lot of steam still around when I pull my steeping hops out...  plus the temp of the brew is like 80-90 deg C so well above Pasteurisation temp so probably anything arriving at that time will not survive.... but I get what you mean about the Wort being at risk and in a dangerous time when warm and no colonising population of good yeasts at work.

I do also like the idea of the Blichmann Plate Chiller too and getting the job done faster... but I only have my rainwater tanks so am a bit water restricted... and the desert no-chill seems to work very well...

I guess too I could use a SS FV... and transfer hot... and once cool... at pitch-time use an Oxy-bottle and stone to aerate and pitch at that time...

I don't like putting really hot wort into my Cooper Plazzi FVs...

Anyway all good... a few thoughts there up for discussion.

Cheers Lusty and Cheers Brewers

BB

 

 

[ChristinaS1]

2 hours ago, Bearded Burbler said:

Just straight sprinkle of dry yeast from the sachet on top of the Wort Christina? 

Yes, that is right. Because I am using 14gm of yeast in a normal gravity brew, which is a slight over-pitch, I feel quite comfortable with this. IME Coopers yeast, and the ale/lager blend, do very well dry pitched / sprinkled. 

When it comes to other dry yeasts, I would be more hesitant to dry pitch. Personally I would rehydrate US-05, BRY-97, and any MJ yeast, as they (MJ) only provide 10gm of yeast and I have had some bad luck with them. I would feel comfortable dry pitching Nottingham, S-04, Windsor, London ESB, as they are all vigorous starters, but to be honest, I rarely use them.

Recently I have started using WLP095 and love it. I consider it my house yeast. It makes fantastic, fruity "New England" style Pale Ales and ESBs (my two favourite styles). But right now I have a bunch of kit yeasts in the fridge to use up. The Coopers ale/lager blend is very clean at 18C and makes nice "West Coast" style Pale Ales. 

Cheers,

Christina.

[ChristinaS1]

19 hours ago, Beerlust said:

Just a quick question, approx. how long from flameout until you are pitching the yeast, & is the wort uncovered through this period?

About 40-50 minutes all told between FO and yeast pitch. I always used to put the lid on right away, at FO, but after a discussion about DMS I started leaving if off for the first 20 minutes. At that point I add the kit and LME and put the lid on, then start chilling.

You make a good point about the wort being vulnerable at this juncture. It might not be worth the risk of leaving the lid off during the hop stand, especially as I never really noticed a problem with DMS prior to that anyway. Maybe I will go back to putting the lid as soon as I add the FO hops. 

Edited September 1, 2020 by ChristinaS1

[Pezzza]

22 hours ago, ChristinaS1 said:

WLP095 and love it. I consider it my house yeast.

Fancy liquid yeast or?

[Pezzza]

In the Yeast race W34/70 slurry got out fast in 10L.... but US05 is hauling them in...

[BlackSands]

On 9/1/2020 at 11:33 PM, ChristinaS1 said:

Personally I would rehydrate US-05...

I'm curious why given Fermentis themselves have stated rehydrating isn't really necessary?

https://fermentis.com/en/news-from-fermentis/technical-reviews/e2u-direct-pitching/

I do note however that their older advice about rehydrating is still in wide circulation.  

 

[Pezzza]

6 hours ago, BlackSands said:

I'm curious why given Fermentis themselves have stated rehydrating isn't really necessary?

What about high OG brews?

[Hairy]

9 hours ago, BlackSands said:

I'm curious why given Fermentis themselves have stated rehydrating isn't really necessary?

https://fermentis.com/en/news-from-fermentis/technical-reviews/e2u-direct-pitching/

I do note however that their older advice about rehydrating is still in wide circulation.  

 

I stopped rehydrating dry yeast a few years ago and haven’t noticed any real difference.

[Pezzza]

6 minutes ago, Hairy said:

I stopped rehydrating dry yeast a few years ago and haven’t noticed any real difference.

Ha ha Hairy that is so funny - mate I brewed for bllllardy years Coopers KnK and never even knew about hydrating... and went fine and dandy.

Joined here - read Palmer - and am going - oooh - maybe I need to hydrate....  Oooh maybe I need to make a starter... .... anyway... interesting...

Thing is I am a chronic high OG brew producer....

so sorta think maybe a good idea to give my expensive dry yeast purchase their best chance to move forward to make me nice beer ; )

Edited September 3, 2020 by Bearded Burbler

[Hairy]

4 minutes ago, Bearded Burbler said:

Ha ha Hairy that is so funny - mate I brewed for bllllardy years Coopers KnK and never even knew about hydrating... and went fine and dandy.

Joined here - read Palmer - and am going - oooh - maybe I need to hydrate....  Oooh maybe I need to make a starter... .... anyway... interesting...

Thing is I am a chronic high OG brew producer....

so sorta think maybe a good idea to give my expensive dry yeast purchase their best chance to move forward to make me nice beer ; )

I don’t brew a lot of high OG beers.

My last beer ended up at 1064 so I pitched two packets. Even hydrated, one wouldn’t have been enough.

I’m not anti-hydrating, I just don’t do it.

[Guvna]

On 8/19/2020 at 8:24 AM, Guvna said:

Howdy All, 

I,m back in the Home Brew game as of last sunday   Put down a Pale Ale kit pimped with a hop boil using cascade @15mins and cascade&galaxy @ 1min.

This brew went together well and being winter was able to get the pitching temp of 19c straight of the bat! Day three at 18.6 temp controlled and its bubbling away still low and slow.

will dry hop with more cascade accordingly.  looking forward to pouring from the fridge again. 

Cheers to all, stay safe

Guvna

Small first sample ( several pints ),  after 8 days at 10 - PSI.

no complaints,...   touch too sweet and malty, but with a little extra carbing will get emptied 

[BlackSands]

4 hours ago, Bearded Burbler said:

What about high OG brews?

2 packets.

[Pezzza]

25 minutes ago, BlackSands said:

2 packets.

Yeast costs money - I would rather use one pack and then do a starter and or hydrate the dried yeast for best possible outcomes

[BlackSands]

7 minutes ago, Bearded Burbler said:

Yeast costs money - I would rather use one pack and then do a starter and or hydrate the dried yeast for best possible outcomes

Bear in mind one packet rehydrated is still one packet 

 

[Pezzza]

2 minutes ago, BlackSands said:

Bear in mind one packet rehydrated is still one packet 

 

yeah supposedly the one packet dry pitch = X cells hydrated

and supposedly that one packet dry pitch = X cells - morbidity due to osmotic shock

when tossed into the higher osmotic potential sugary wort... don't survive their resuscitation

[MitchBastard]

My saison which was pitched on Tuesday, reached FG by this morning. Definitely wasn’t expecting a 2 day ferment of 1.053 down to 1.004. Fermenting at 30 degrees will do it I guess. 
 

will let it sit on the cake for another 2 weeks, potentially dry hop then bottle. 
 

tastes awesome. Lotta funk, bit of spice and she’s gunna be dry once carbed up. 
 

 

[ChristinaS1]

On 9/2/2020 at 9:11 PM, BlackSands said:

I'm curious why given Fermentis themselves have stated rehydrating isn't really necessary?

https://fermentis.com/en/news-from-fermentis/technical-reviews/e2u-direct-pitching/

I do note however that their older advice about rehydrating is still in wide circulation.  

 

Yes, I am aware that Fermentis have followed Mangrove Jack's example and have stopped recommending rehydration. I don't know why. A few explanations that come to mind are 1.) they don't want to intimidate beginners, or 2.) continued testing has shown the benefit of rehydration (higher cell count / shorter lag time) doesn't make a practical difference in the real world, or 3.) the risk of users making things worse by using the wrong temperature or introducing infection during the rehydration process don't outweigh the benefit.

The reason I said that I personally would rehydrate US-05 is because it is a slowish starter, and in theory dry pitching would slow it down even more. 

Cheers,

Christina. 

[BlackSands]

On 9/5/2020 at 6:51 AM, ChristinaS1 said:

Yes, I am aware that Fermentis have followed Mangrove Jack's example and have stopped recommending rehydration. I don't know why.

The reason's why according to Fermentis are summarised in these charts.  Essentially as you say "continued testing has shown the benefit of rehydration (higher cell count / shorter lag time) doesn't make a practical difference in the real world," but also considers attenuation, volatile compounds produced etc: 

(DP=direct pitch, W=rehydrated in water @30ºC, 15ºP=rehydration in agitated 15ºP wort at 20º)

Edited September 5, 2020 by BlackSands

[ChristinaS1]

@BlackSands Thanks for that. Very cool chart, and very interesting.  Do you know  what OG and fermentation temp they used?

Dry pitching is a wee bit slower out of the starting gate but catches up to rehydration by day 5. The three methods produce extremely similar results and you have to squint to see any measurable difference. About the only one that I can see is that the average VDK (= diacetyl) level using rehydration is a bit lower, so if you are making a pseudo-lager using US-05 you might want to consider rehydration, but otherwise no so much.

https://beerandbrewing.com/dictionary/OFH8CHBicP/#:~:text=Vicinal Diketones (VDKs) are a,and 2%2C3-pentanedione.&text=They are formed during beer,can indicate possible bacterial contamination. 

But I note that all of the things tested in the above chart were tested by machines; there was no sensory testing. I wonder if that would provide different results?

Cheers,

Christina.

Edited September 6, 2020 by ChristinaS1

[ChristinaS1]

Here is a link to the information @BlackSands supplied above:

https://fermentis.com/en/news-from-fermentis/technical-reviews/e2u-direct-pitching/

I note that the water used for rehydration in the study was 30C, and that it was moderately agitated, same as the 15P (SG 1.061) wort. That is surprising to me as back when Fermentis was recommending rehydration they said to use 24-29C sterile water, which a bit cooler; they did not mention agitating it. The way most people probably go about rehydration is to boil water and let it cool to the recommended temp, and then add the yeast and stir it in. Boiled water is low in dissolved oxygen, isn't it? 

In using slightly warmer water and moderately agitating it the rehydration arm of this experiment might make rehydration look better than the way most home brewers practice it, although dry yeast has plenty of ergosterols builtin and supposedly does not need aeration.

Cheers,

Christina.

Edited September 6, 2020 by ChristinaS1

[The Captain!!]

Split batch into the FV today. 
Cascade Mosaic with US05 

Cascade, Sabro, Citra with Verdant IPA yeast

Looking forward to both