Cubing

[Aussiekraut]

Is there any purpose of cubing other than storage? 

 

[Otto Von Blotto]

Convenience. Allows you to brew whenever, regardless of having an available fermenter or not. 

Saves water because you don't need to actively chill the wort. I think that was one of the main reasons it was started. Less setup and packing away too I suppose. 

One drawback is that it affects late hopping schedules, but this is pretty easily worked around. 

I've been doing it since I went AG, and don't have any plans to change. 

[Greenyinthewestofsydney]

As per Kelsey above is pretty much why I do it. Every ale i make gets the no chill cube treatment. Lagers i fast chill and dont cube. Only reason for that is to stop chill haze as i want my lagers clear.

Though i suppose Kelsey your bottom of the pool treatment is probably a fast chill in effect anyway.

[Aussiekraut]

Thanks guys.

And how long can the wort be stored and at what temps?

 

[Otto Von Blotto]

Yeah although I don't do the pool chill with lagers, just the hoppy ales. 

They can be stored as long as you like really, but around two years is usually the max time quoted around the place. Just ambient temperature is fine. 

Most of the time the wort is only stored for short periods before it is fermented though. 

[The Captain!!]

When storing I’d say just keep it out of sunlight. 

[Norris!]

I cube, only did 2, but it is pretty awesome. No wasting water and you can brew whenever you like. I think it is way better than running water down the drain just to chill a brew. My beers have had good hop aroma and flavour and so far, at the bitterness I expected. Give it a go, sometime.

[Shamus O'Sean]

I cubed my first all grain that I did in a 20L pot.  Since getting the Grainfather I have used its counter-flow chiller.  Cools 15L of wort to pitching temperature in under 15 minutes.  Water from tap running slowly through the chiller does not quite fill a 25L cube.  I use the collected water for cleaning and rinsing the Grainfather.  If I cubed from the Grainfather I would still have to use about 20L of water to clean it.

I can see that cubing is useful if you are time poor at the end of a brew day.  Being able to ferment at a later date adds some flexibility too.  My current circumstances allows me to do the brew, cool, ferment and clean on one day.  If time gets tighter I will re-evaluate.

[Beerlust]

10 hours ago, Aussiekraut said:

Is there any purpose of cubing other than storage? 

IMHO opinion, NO. I've never understood the practice, or any need for it, & never will.

Why pour off hot wort into a container & say OK container of hot wort, you can cool down over night, & I might use you tomorrow, I might not. why bother making the wort in the first place if that's your plan?

All this BS about I can't ferment the beer immediately because I've gotta work, or my granny was sick & I have to take care of her, or I have to take my kids to their junior choir rehearsal & every other BS reason under the sun just cracks me up.

It's like dry hopping in a separate fermenter, WHY???

For the sake of 20-30mins, just use a wort chiller & pour it directly into your fermenter & get it fermenting FGS.

If I ever switch to AG brewing, the only cube in my house will be the Rubik's cube that has sat in an old junk box for decades un-used. Come to think of it, I should probably turf that Rubik's cube as well, as it is just junk taking up space. Much like the need for a hot wort cube, a waste of time & space.

Just my 20 cents,

Lusty.

[Otto Von Blotto]

People do what works best for their situation. The fact that you can't understand why some brewers cube their wort, and wilfully refuse to, says more about you than the practice itself. It's pretty bloody narrow minded to be honest. 

I do it because I rarely if ever have a fermenter empty on the weekend, which is the only time I have available for a full AG brew day. It's either cube the wort or not brew AG at all. There's no point chilling it immediately if there's nothing for it to go into. I'm not gonna faff around trying to organise everything in a way that allows for the chilling of the wort when there is a much easier solution, or go backwards and use extract again. You might think it's a BS reason, but I and probably most other no chillers think your opinion is BS as well. 

It's one thing to say you wouldn't do it personally, and quite another to imply that it's a waste of time for anyone at all to do it because that is just f-ing stupid. 

I'd agree about dry hopping in a different vessel because there's virtually no benefit to doing so. But it's not really comparable to a process that does have benefits for those who use it.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Otto Von Blotto

[Norris!]

@Aussiekraut

You opened a can a worms!! Wow, I never knew this could be an issue, but it isn't really. Lusty, try it. It is a genius method. Yes, there are ways to do things differently, but that is why we all have our own breweries, if we liked what everyone else was doing we probably wouldn't be brewing. That doesn't mean we shouldn't at least take what we don't like and others do with a grain of salt, that maybe we could be wrong due to our prejudices. We don't know what we don't know.

I have a nice wort chiller, I might use it, I probably won't, unless I hook up an aquarium cooler and get a water tank to work out a way to ensure I keep all the water. But Shamus brought up a good point, if I saved the water from the chill in a barrel or something and then reused it for cleaning, I might try that. For me, I want to use the least amount of water As possible or use it efficiently. Cheers @Shamus O'Sean

That is a great idea that I honestly never even considered, much appreciated.

Norris

[Beerlust]

5 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

People do what works best for their situation. The fact that you can't understand why some brewers cube their wort, and wilfully refuse to, says more about you than the practice itself. It's pretty bloody narrow minded to be honest.

I knew you'd be one of the first to comment on my post.

There's nothing "narrow minded" in my post whatsoever. You & others have convinced yourself of the need for the practice, so don't even try to suggest the need for it, especially to me given I understand the full procedure for wort production & the available practices & time-frames open for brewers to ferment it. What you do is a choice, it doesn't make it the ONLY choice.

Because a bunch of lazy brewers choose to do 9/10th's of the process on one day, & the other one 1/10th on another day doesn't make it best practice OR something that has to be adhered to or promoted as something that should be considered as a general rule for BIAB or AG brewing, because that is simply BS!

16 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

I do it because I rarely if ever have a fermenter empty on the weekend...There's no point chilling it immediately if there's nothing for it to go into.

If you're that disorganised that you schedule a brew day when you don't have an available fermenter to pour it into, & an available brew fridge to control ferment it in, then I can't offer you the help you need, maybe see a psychiatrist. It's only as hard as you wish to make it. You cuber's make it hard all by yourselves with the BS scenarios you create.

You Cuber's, keep your BS excuses coming & I'll have a solution for all of you, if not at a bare minimum, a joke response for the BS story you will provide!

Cheers,

Lusty.

 

[Norris!]

5 minutes ago, Beerlust said:

You Cuber's, keep your BS excuses coming & I'll have a solution for all of you, if not at a bare minimum, a joke response for the BS story you will provide!

Cheers,

Lusty.

 

Gangsta as usual Lusty. It is all in good fun and learning, but you did make me laugh out loud at your gregariousness.

Cheers

Norris

[Beerlust]

7 minutes ago, Norris! said:

Gangsta as usual Lusty. It is all in good fun and learning, but you did make me laugh out loud at your gregariousness.

Cheers

Norris

It's likely to be the kindest response I'm going to get to my comments, but bring 'em on as this cubing practice that is pushed in homebrewing circles has reached plague proportions (IMHO) without much resistance or offer of other options &/or available practices.

Cheers,

Lusty.

[Otto Von Blotto]

That's the problem with your opinion right there. Apart from criticising something you've never even tried, nobody is saying it's best practice for every brewer or whatever, or the only choice/only way to do AG or anything else in that paragraph. You're the only one suggesting that anyone is saying that. Suggesting that it shouldn't be promoted as a viable method is flat out rubbish as well. All that's been posted are reasons why some of us do it, in response to a question about exactly that. If the question was more broad about different chilling methods then they would all be suggested.

It's nothing to do with being disorganised, I simply keg and pitch batches whenever they're ready, it might be on a Tuesday or it might be on a Sunday or any other day. I don't adhere to rigid timeframes doing it all on weekends because I have no need to. That's why the fermenters aren't always available on weekends when I brew. My brewing is well organised, putting wort in a cube doesn't make it less so, and once the fermenter is available the wort is ready to pitch. It also allows me to chill wort down below 10 degrees when brewing lagers, something that wouldn't be possible chilling, without mucking around a hell of a lot more (ice etc.).

If you want to work 12 hour days with a few hours break in the middle and try to fit an AG brew in as well, be my guest, but I'm not about to bust my arse like that just because you think no chilling is crap. 

 

Edited October 1, 2019 by Otto Von Blotto

[Beerlust]

1 hour ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

That's the problem with your opinion right there. Apart from criticising something you've never even tried,

That's it in a nutshell Kelsey, I won't EVER try it as I'm one of the educated folk unlike those new to the forum that are posing the question based on a lack of information & relevant knowledge in this area. It is a complete waste of time & an added process that is entirely unnecessary. Because you & others choose to adopt it, & follow it is completely your right as an individual, but don't preach it to me or others as something necessary as part of the process of BIAB or AG brewing because it isn't. And it's about time someone said so as another option against the  biased advice of this forum that suggests it is the best & only option in most discussions when this question is posed by new brewers moving into AG brewing.

If & when I move to AG brewing it will be something along the lines of 3V & no cubes involved.

Lusty.

[MitchBastard]

@Aussiekraut certainly got his money’s worth on this thread. 

Spicy.

[RDT2]

I like to chill but put my water into my pool but if I didn’t have my pool I would probably no chill. I have tried it, worked fine don’t see the problem with it specially the people with water shortages in the rural areas makes sense to me  

[Otto Von Blotto]

You know, people probably wouldn't ark up if you didn't adopt this arrogant attitude that your opinion is fact and that no chillers are somehow lesser brewers. Just because someone chills their wort doesn't make them more educated over someone who chooses cubes. It's no different to 3V against BIAB or other single vessel systems. Neither method necessarily makes better beer than the other, most of the difference is a few SG points. There are probably a few other minor advantages to 3V, but it's up to the individual to decide if those are worth it over single vessel systems. 

Everyone has different life situations. All you are doing is applying a blanket statement that suggests everyone is in the same situation. You're also looking at each batch individually rather than the bigger picture. Each batch by itself might take longer from brew day to glass, but overall there is still a constant production of beer, and at the end of the day that's what we're all aiming for. Perhaps if you looked at it that way you might understand that for those who choose that method it's not time wasted but simply allocated differently, but until you get away from this idiotic idea that the only reason for no chilling is laziness, that probably won't happen. 

[Beerlust]

7 hours ago, RDT2 said:

I like to chill but put my water into my pool but if I didn’t have my pool I would probably no chill. I have tried it, worked fine don’t see the problem with it specially the people with water shortages in the rural areas makes sense to me  

Do you boil your rain water before you drink it?

[Worthog]

10 hours ago, Beerlust said:

.....You Cuber's, keep your BS excuses coming & I'll have a solution for all of you, if not at a bare minimum, a joke response for the BS story you will provide!

Cheers,

Lusty.

 

I cube because I don't have the equipment or water to waste. 

I cube because it is a very workable process when mashing and boiling on gas in a 38L pot.

I cube because I can split the process into 2 enjoyable sub-processes on different days while I mind grandchildren.

I cube because I have continued to notice improved changes in my brewing quality - not necessarily due to cubing, although it is a process change I implemented for reasons - but because I have concentrated on other process areas.

I cube, not because I am a BS artist. I cube because I  like to.

Just my 2 bobs worth. Cheers

 

 

[Beerlust]

16 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

You know, people probably wouldn't ark up if you didn't adopt this arrogant attitude that your opinion...

The people that ark up are generally those that are close-minded to difference & other options. This "arrogant attitude" you speak of only comes across that way because it comes from a place of knowledge, & it happens to differ from the ideology of those that "ark up".

26 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

that your opinion is fact

My opinion in this case is fact. You can chill wort, & you don't have to cube it for later use.

28 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

...and that no chillers are somehow lesser brewers.

If you feel like a lesser brewer because you no-chill, that's really not my problem, nor is it something I can help you with. Maybe time to go see a psychiatrist.

32 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

...Just because someone chills their wort doesn't make them more educated over someone who chooses cubes. It's no different to 3V against BIAB or other single vessel systems. Neither method necessarily makes better beer than the other, most of the difference is a few SG points. There are probably a few other minor advantages to 3V, but it's up to the individual to decide if those are worth it over single vessel systems.

It's not about the systems or anything to do with producing better beer. It's some of the BS reasons given for no-chilling. It's like saying, I'll mow the lawn today, but I'll leave that one square metre patch until tomorrow, or later in the week. 

36 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

Everyone has different life situations. All you are doing is applying a blanket statement that suggests everyone is in the same situation. You're also looking at each batch individually rather than the bigger picture. Each batch by itself might take longer from brew day to glass, but overall there is still a constant production of beer, and at the end of the day that's what we're all aiming for. Perhaps if you looked at it that way you might understand that for those who choose that method it's not time wasted but simply allocated differently, but until you get away from this idiotic idea that the only reason for no chilling is laziness, that probably won't happen. 

I learned something new today (because I'm a bit more open-minded). 20-30 minutes to cool a wort through a wort chiller is classed as a "life situation".

Please keep the comedy coming.

Lusty.

[Hoppy81]

[Otto Von Blotto]

Lol. You really have no idea. Of course you can chill wort, or cube it. That's not being argued. I don't feel like a lesser brewer but your comments imply that no chillers somehow are.

I'll give an example of why it works better for me, not necessarily everyone, but me. I have a batch of pilsner being kegged tomorrow and gassed up for the weekend, so obviously the fermenter will be empty. Because of other things happening this weekend that were planned some time ago, I won't have a chance to brew, and may not next weekend either. There's no chance during the week because of work. If I was using a chiller and not cubes, that's definitely one week without anything fermenting, and potentially two weeks. Because I already have a batch ready to go in a cube, by the time that two weeks is up it will be just about ready to keg rather than not even been brewed at all. It would be a far greater waste of time not using cubes. 

The difference is that I don't think everyone is in the same situation as me. I don't rubbish chilling as a method overall because it works. It just doesn't work for my situation. Using cubes enables a more efficient use of the time I have to brew, and I produce beers that I enjoy drinking. If you don't want to use the method, that's fine too, nobody gives a shit, but it's no reason to get up on a pedestal and suggest someone should see a shrink because they choose a method that works for them. 

[Hoppy81]

I honestly don't understand why people knock other peoples ways of doing things, does it affect you? does it bother you? What ever works best for you is the only thing that matters. It's good to see other ways of doing things but if you don't agree with such ways for your brewing so be it, why does it then become a debate?  Blows my mind how people can be so argumentative about such things.