Reusable Stubbies

[Classic Brewing Co]

52 minutes ago, Oldbloke said:

Do you blokes sanitise your bottles/stubbies?

Doh yes.

[Classic Brewing Co]

49 minutes ago, Uhtred Of Beddanburg said:

@Classic Brewing CoI think I will definitely just replace the whole lot with rubber thanks

Way to go mate.

[Shamus O'Sean]

9 hours ago, Oldbloke said:

Do you blokes sanitise your bottles/stubbies?

 

I've never bothered, just make sure they are clean. These days they just go through the dish washer. I figure if 1 in two hundred is a bit off, so what. Not that I recall when I last had one.

I always sanitised my bottles and the caps before filling.

I only clean the Grolsch seals in place.  Because they are flexible you can slide you finger around their under-side.  But even then, I am not cleaning every nook and cranny.  They get dunked in the sanitiser before use.

[Oldbloke]

17 hours ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

Doh yes.

Well, seems to me to be a lot of work for almost no reward.

[Classic Brewing Co]

Just now, Oldbloke said:

Well, seems to me to be a lot of work for almost no reward.

It is really no effort if you are organised, my already clean bottles are ready to have a bath in the tub of sanitiser before they go on the bottle tree while I get on with setting up the FV for bottling/kegging. 

After they have drained, I get on with transferring the wort into the keg & prime each bottle individually & just simply fill the bottles, cap & store in boxes. 

Of course, these days I am kegging so there only a few bottles to fill, even while I was bottling, I did the same. 

There is no need to risk an infection of any sort in the practice of home brewing - prevention is better than the cure.

I am sure I am not the only one who sanitises the bottles, you have to sanitise the keg before filling, so really there is no difference.

[RDT2]

8 minutes ago, Oldbloke said:

Well, seems to me to be a lot of work for almost no reward.

Too much work goes into making the beer to not sanitise imo!

[Brauhaus Fritz]

15 minutes ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

It is really no effort if you are organised, my already clean bottles are ready to have a bath in the tub of sanitiser before they go on the bottle tree while I get on with setting up the FV for bottling/kegging. 

After they have drained, I get on with transferring the wort into the keg & prime each bottle individually & just simply fill the bottles, cap & store in boxes. 

Of course, these days I am kegging so there only a few bottles to fill, even while I was bottling, I did the same. 

There is no need to risk an infection of any sort in the practice of home brewing - prevention is better than the cure.

I am sure I am not the only one who sanitises the bottles, you have to sanitise the keg before filling, so really there is no difference.

I am with you there, bottling the same way. Soaking the bottles the day before, it's all part of the enjoyable process. If I want it quicker, there is always the bottle shop

[Classic Brewing Co]

15 minutes ago, RDT2 said:

Too much work goes into making the beer to not sanitise imo!

Exactly, I can't understand anyone trying to short cut the age-old method of making beer, there is no purpose trying to find ways to save money/time & risk losing a brew, it has cost you time, money & 2 weeks of production.

You only have to go on Coopers website or read the back of any can of extract & it is all there: CLEAN - SANITISE - BREW etc.

• Do I need to sanitise all the brewing equipment?

   

  The first time you use your kit from new, you can just rinse it in hot water. Just remember, whenever you’re cleaning your equipment, only use a soft cloth that won’t scratch it. For future brews, we recommend that you sanitise all your brewing equipment before each brew. Note: sanitising is most effective on equipment that has already been cleaned (free from any obvious soiling).

[Classic Brewing Co]

10 minutes ago, Brauhaus Fritz said:

I am with you there, bottling the same way. Soaking the bottles the day before, it's all part of the enjoyable process. If I want it quicker, there is always the bottle shop

To be honest I think most would agree with me, ask any brewery or even Frank from Coopers Admin.

[Oldbloke]

Well, brewing since 1988. I'm still alive.

 

Can I ask, do you sanitise all your eating utensils and beer glasses?

 

Once in a blue moon I've had a "one off" stubbie that was a former and tasted off. But every time upon closer inspection it was dirty. Had somehow slipped through without being washed. Sanitising won't fix that.

[Oldbloke]

Just to add. I sanitise my barrel, spoon etc.

Not sanitising bottles/stubbies only risks 1 bottle. Not t he brew. 

See my logic.  My time is important to me.

Edited March 21, 2023 by Oldbloke

[Classic Brewing Co]

6 minutes ago, Oldbloke said:

Just to add. I sanitise my barrel, spoon etc.

Not sanitising bottles/stubbies only risks 1 bottle. Not t he brew. 

See my logic.  My time is important to me.

My first ever brew was in the mid 1970's & I was a Cook in the Army, so hygiene has played an important part in my life.

Methods, technology have changed since then & for the better, so I really don't care what some brewers do apart from the orthodox way of doing things. 

I think you are wasting time with me criticising my methods because I ain't going to change them.

And yes, I do sanitise my beer glasses regularly.

 

[Oldbloke]

15 minutes ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

My first ever brew was in the mid 1970's & I was a Cook in the Army, so hygiene has played an important part in my life.

Methods, technology have changed since then & for the better, so I really don't care what some brewers do apart from the orthodox way of doing things. 

I think you are wasting time with me criticising my methods because I ain't going to change them.

And yes, I do sanitise my beer glasses regularly.

 

Its not criticism. If blokes want to sterilise bottles, all good. I'm just saying it's a lot of work for little benefit.  

If I was kegging I would sterilise the keg because there is a possibility of ruining a full keg. 

Everyone in exposed daily. Keep in mind there are viruses and bacteria floating around in the air, on every surface in your house. You can't eliminate them, just minimise the numbers.

Horses for course's again.

 

 

[Classic Brewing Co]

1 minute ago, Oldbloke said:

Its not criticism. If blokes want to sterilise bottles, all good. I'm just saying it's a lot of work for little benefit.  

If I was kegging I would sterilise the keg because there is a possibility of ruining a full keg. 

Everyone in exposed daily. Keep in mind there are viruses and bacteria floating around in the air, on every surface in your house. You can't eliminate them, just minimise the numbers.

Horses for course's again.

 

 

I am moving on from this, it's going nowhere. 

[Graculus]

On 3/19/2023 at 3:34 PM, Oldbloke said:

Of course they are thinner  so will blow if pressure is too much. But it won't the stubbies that we're the problem, it was t he cider. Like I said, 5 years not one blown. And a fair few were primed with 250grams. 

I disagreed with you before and I still disagree with you.

I read your comment earlier in the week, but didn't reply until I had time to check  my notes.

The Cider in question was primed with 8 grams of dextrose per litre.

The Grolsch swing tops and the HB lager 375 ml bottles were fine.

It was only the Bundie that blew.

And it was during the winter, so the bottles were not stressed by the heat.

 

You've said a couple of times it was the cider, without saying why.

Also you prime some with 250 grams. 250 grams of what?

In how much beer? Cider?

From memory I've only ever had one swing top break, which was around the neck.

And other bottles maybe the odd one now and again.

The only brew I've had several blow is the cider that I bottled in those thin Bundie bottles.

 

And just to echo what @Classic Brewing Co says.

I am moving on from this, it's going nowhere

Edited March 24, 2023 by Graculus

[Graculus]

On 3/20/2023 at 9:55 PM, Uhtred Of Beddanburg said:

@Classic Brewing CoI think I will definitely just replace the whole lot with rubber thanks

This is the only way....

I changed to silicone seals when the rubber ones perished.

Couldn't change back quick enough.

[Classic Brewing Co]

13 minutes ago, Graculus said:

This is the only way....

I changed to silicone seals when the rubber ones perished.

Couldn't change back quick enough.

Yes, after a couple of uses they don't provide a tight seal, the rubber seals last a long time if they are looked after.

Grolsch bottles are great, extra strong far & better than all of those silly little thin 330ml bottles & pull off tops etc.

[Otto Von Blotto]

I used the Bundy stubbies a little bit but I didn't like the way they poured into a glass so I stopped with them. Didn't have any blow up at least. I never used sanitiser on my bottles either but they were always soaked in hot perc and hot rinsed then dried. If I'd started having problems I would have changed my process however. 

The only explosions I had were one particular batch fermented with S-04, I think it did the old fall asleep in the fermenter before the job was done then woke up again in the bottles. 2 or 3 of them blew up, the others were rather over carbonated but tasted fine. 

[Classic Brewing Co]

5 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

I used the Bundy stubbies a little bit but I didn't like the way they poured into a glass so I stopped with them. Didn't have any blow up at least. I never used sanitiser on my bottles either but they were always soaked in hot perc and hot rinsed then dried. If I'd started having problems I would have changed my process however. 

The only explosions I had were one particular batch fermented with S-04, I think it did the old fall asleep in the fermenter before the job was done then woke up again in the bottles. 2 or 3 of them blew up, the others were rather over carbonated but tasted fine. 

Yeah, you might get away with it if you don't do any additions - grain, malt etc particularly if you only use kit yeast.

An old mate of mine is a tight a**** & opts for the cheapest way out & only used cheap stubbies, any kind & used to store them in the shed with all of his primitive brew equipment. Her indoors doesn't allow anything to do with brewing in the house so he always had explosions & of course, crap tasting beer.

[Oldbloke]

2 hours ago, Graculus said:

I disagreed with you before and I still disagree with you.

I read your comment earlier in the week, but didn't reply until I had time to check  my notes.

The Cider in question was primed with 8 grams of dextrose per litre.

The Grolsch swing tops and the HB lager 375 ml bottles were fine.

It was only the Bundie that blew.

And it was during the winter, so the bottles were not stressed by the heat.

 

You've said a couple of times it was the cider, without saying why.

Also you prime some with 250 grams. 250 grams of what?

In how much beer? Cider?

From memory I've only ever had one swing top break, which was around the neck.

And other bottles maybe the odd one now and again.

The only brew I've had several blow is the cider that I bottled in those thin Bundie bottles.

 

And just to echo what @Classic Brewing Co says.

I am moving on from this, it's going nowhere

You obviously missed where on 27 march i said: "23litre batches with 250grams of sugar."

Thats over 10.8 grams of sugar per litre. I have since reduced to 190 grams. (8.26gr per litre)

 

Yes, we all know the Bundy stubbies have thinner glass. A thicker glass provides a greater safety margin. Anyone can work that out. BUT if they were too thin all the GB would be exploding on the super market shelves. And I would have had stubbies exploding. Thats yet to happen in about 5 years.

IMO your cider must have been very fizzy. Well above the norm, resulting in 1 or 2 exploding. That does not make them unsuitable. Providing you make your beer/cider correctly.

[Aussiekraut]

3 hours ago, Oldbloke said:

You obviously missed where on 27 march i said: "23litre batches with 250grams of sugar."

Thats over 10.8 grams of sugar per litre. I have since reduced to 190 grams. (8.26gr per litre)

 

Yes, we all know the Bundy stubbies have thinner glass. A thicker glass provides a greater safety margin. Anyone can work that out. BUT if they were too thin all the GB would be exploding on the super market shelves. And I would have had stubbies exploding. Thats yet to happen in about 5 years.

IMO your cider must have been very fizzy. Well above the norm, resulting in 1 or 2 exploding. That does not make them unsuitable. Providing you make your beer/cider correctly.

In another thread about the new Coopers long necks, the statement from Coopers was they are not suitable for reuse. So original use is fine. The same goes for the Bundy bottles I suppose. Why this is, is for somebody else to explain. 

[Oldbloke]

4 hours ago, Aussiekraut said:

In another thread about the new Coopers long necks, the statement from Coopers was they are not suitable for reuse. So original use is fine. The same goes for the Bundy bottles I suppose. Why this is, is for somebody else to explain. 

Yes, I read that. Obviously if the glass is a little thiner the margin for error (safety margin) has been reduced. But personally I believe those warnings are driven by the fear of litigation by company lawyers.  Perhaps at least in part because they have no control over the cleaning and bottling process.

Let's keep in mind, if the pressure developed by your home brew is much the same as factory beer they should be fine. If normal pressure levels is an issue all the stubbies in your local bottle shop would be exploding.

Glass does not become significantly weakened after its been used once unless it is treated very badly.  And we don't treat our bottles in the rough manner that a production facility does.

[kmar92]

1 hour ago, Oldbloke said:

 

Let's keep in mind, if the pressure developed by your home brew is much the same as factory beer they should be fine.

 

Probably exactly why Coopers do not recommend using the new long necks. The factory bottling would be done in carefully controlled conditions, whereas home brewers may do things differently. I have seen so many posts about the quantity of fermentables that people use in their bottling and also what type of fermentables that they use (white sugar, dextrose, lollies, etc, etc). Also what about a brew that is bottled before primary has finished, people do that all the time? Home brewing is not a carefully controlled environment so there are many things that may impact the level of carbonation in a home brewed bottle and hence the chance of a pressure that exceeds the strength of the new weakened pressure vessels, i.e. bottles.

No doubt Coopers are very wise to say that the new long necks should not be used for home brewing.

I do not understand why some people say that "they should be fine", etc. Maybe they will be, but maybe they will explode.

[Otto Von Blotto]

11 hours ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

Yeah, you might get away with it if you don't do any additions - grain, malt etc particularly if you only use kit yeast.

An old mate of mine is a tight a**** & opts for the cheapest way out & only used cheap stubbies, any kind & used to store them in the shed with all of his primitive brew equipment. Her indoors doesn't allow anything to do with brewing in the house so he always had explosions & of course, crap tasting beer.

"Got away with it" for several years before I switched to kegs, most of that time brewing AG. The bottles were stored in closed containers after drying. I don't use sanitizer in my kegs either, they get the same hot perc and hot rinse then filled with CO2 and kept sealed until filling. No problems with them either. 

I'm not suggesting anyone do anything different to what they do now, but I had and continue to have no issues so don't see much point in adding any extra steps to the process. Simple as that. 

[Classic Brewing Co]

1 hour ago, kmar92 said:

Probably exactly why Coopers do not recommend using the new long necks. The factory bottling would be done in carefully controlled conditions, whereas home brewers may do things differently. I have seen so many posts about the quantity of fermentables that people use in their bottling and also what type of fermentables that they use (white sugar, dextrose, lollies, etc, etc). Also what about a brew that is bottled before primary has finished, people do that all the time? Home brewing is not a carefully controlled environment so there are many things that may impact the level of carbonation in a home brewed bottle and hence the chance of a pressure that exceeds the strength of the new weakened pressure vessels, i.e. bottles.

No doubt Coopers are very wise to say that the new long necks should not be used for home brewing.

I do not understand why some people say that "they should be fine", etc. Maybe they will be, but maybe they will explode.

Good points @kmar92 I am guilty of using lots of fermentables but also very cautious about it too, that's why I only use the appropriate bottles albeit a small amount these days. I agree also about those that reckon the brew is ready to bottle in about 8 days, that is not a good practice as you cannot brew buy guess work.