Whats in Your Fermenter - 2024?

[Triple B Brewing]

2 hours ago, jennyss said:

Thanks Shamus, I didn't realise how important hops are at the start of the brew for the end result of bitterness. I will also have to study up about IBU's. We googled 'how much hops are in homebrew extracts' and didn't come up with any good information. We will sneak in some more hops. My husband likes to get his brews close to Tooheys New; and doesn't like my hoppy pale ales or IPA's. 

Hi Jen, further to all good advise above, you might find these two articles by BeerSmith of some interest. - They are really quite technical (my head is still spinning ), but they help to start to put things into perspective regarding how hops work in brewing.
What is Hop Isomerization in Beer Brewing and then this article The Bitterness Equation to understand why the specific gravity also impacts on achieving IBU's (International Bitterness Units). 

Apart from the different make up of the hops themselves (Alpha acids), as far as I can determine, it comes down to heat, time and gravity of the medium that the hops are boiled in which impacts on the bitterness equation.

There has been many references of hops, when to use them and the different effects, here's a couple of examples of historical threads on the Cooper Forum;

2013 Boiling hops in plain water?
2019 The Effects of Hops
2020 How To Gain The Most From Your Hops

And finally, here's a little midnight reading for ya to finish up the subject  

Hope some of that is useful to you and hubby
Cheers, and here's to some perfectly hoped beers eh    

Alpha-Hop Soup - Figuring Bitterness (IBUs, AAUs and HBUs).pdf

[Shamus O'Sean]

5 hours ago, jennyss said:

Thanks Shamus, I didn't realise how important hops are at the start of the brew for the end result of bitterness. I will also have to study up about IBU's. We googled 'how much hops are in homebrew extracts' and didn't come up with any good information. We will sneak in some more hops. My husband likes to get his brews close to Tooheys New; and doesn't like my hoppy pale ales or IPA's. 

Don't forget the hops have to be boiled to get the bitterness out of them.  Steeping does not do much from a bitterness perspective.  For something like Tooheys New, you want a plain hop.  Say Magnum, Pride of Ringwood, Super Pride, etc.  What have you got?

Note that the cans like your Brew A IPA are hopped extracts.  So they have hops added during a boil.  The cans like Coopers Light Malt Extract are unhopped extract.  They have no hops in them.  Hence no bitterness.  You have to add it in with your own hop boil.

Brea A IPA has 830 IBU's per kg of extract.  The amount is so high because the extract is concentrated.  Once you add it to your fermenter with water, it dilutes back down to beer territory.  The formula for bitterness (as per the Coopers FAQs) is: Product bitterness x 1.7 / Brew volume = Brew Bitterness before fermentation.  So for Brew A IPA it is 830 x 1.7 / 23 = 61 IBU's.  According to the Coopers FAQ's, fermentation reduces bitterness by between 10% to 30%.  So once fermented the Brew A IPA would be somewhere between 43 and 55 IBU.

[jennyss]

8 hours ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

Don't forget the hops have to be boiled to get the bitterness out of them.  Steeping does not do much from a bitterness perspective.  For something like Tooheys New, you want a plain hop.  Say Magnum, Pride of Ringwood, Super Pride, etc.  What have you got?

Note that the cans like your Brew A IPA are hopped extracts.  So they have hops added during a boil.  The cans like Coopers Light Malt Extract are unhopped extract.  They have no hops in them.  Hence no bitterness.  You have to add it in with your own hop boil.

Brea A IPA has 830 IBU's per kg of extract.  The amount is so high because the extract is concentrated.  Once you add it to your fermenter with water, it dilutes back down to beer territory.  The formula for bitterness (as per the Coopers FAQs) is: Product bitterness x 1.7 / Brew volume = Brew Bitterness before fermentation.  So for Brew A IPA it is 830 x 1.7 / 23 = 61 IBU's.  According to the Coopers FAQ's, fermentation reduces bitterness by between 10% to 30%.  So once fermented the Brew A IPA would be somewhere between 43 and 55 IBU.

Hello @Shamus O'Sean, Me again. The hops I have on hand are 25g packs of Citra, Nectaron and Mosaic; and about 17g of Galaxy. So could we boil a combo or one of these packs for 30 minutes in 3L of drawn off brew (in a chux bag or straight boil?), then cool the mixture to brew temp, then strain the liquid back into the brew. Will this add bitterness but not too much hoppy aroma/flavour?

[Shamus O'Sean]

8 hours ago, jennyss said:

Hello @Shamus O'Sean, Me again. The hops I have on hand are 25g packs of Citra, Nectaron and Mosaic; and about 17g of Galaxy. So could we boil a combo or one of these packs for 30 minutes in 3L of drawn off brew (in a chux bag or straight boil?), then cool the mixture to brew temp, then strain the liquid back into the brew. Will this add bitterness but not too much hoppy aroma/flavour?

Sorry for taking so long to get back to you Jenny.  I suggest a 20 minute boil of 25g of Mosaic and the 17g of Galaxy.  I have mocked up the recipe in the IanH spreadsheet.  You should get around 19-20 IBU.  You could boil it for up to 30 minutes for about 25 IBU (which is close to the bitterness of a Coopers Original Pale Ale).  A Chux bag is a good idea because you can just fish it out at the end of the boil.  Cool it - Yes.  Strain - Only needed if you do not use a Chux.  The 20 minute boil should boil off a lot of the hop flavour and aroma.  Some will still be there, but not enough for a hop-bomb.

The brew is probably getting close to finished now.  Therefore there will not be much yeast activity to stir up the boil addition.  Sanitise your brew spoon and give the whole contents of the FV a good but gentle stir.  Try not to disturb the yeast cake too much.  But also do not worry about it too much either, it will settle down in a few days.

[jennyss]

1 hour ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

Sorry for taking so long to get back to you Jenny.  I suggest a 20 minute boil of 25g of Mosaic and the 17g of Galaxy.  I have mocked up the recipe in the IanH spreadsheet.  You should get around 19-20 IBU.  You could boil it for up to 30 minutes for about 25 IBU (which is close to the bitterness of a Coopers Original Pale Ale).  A Chux bag is a good idea because you can just fish it out at the end of the boil.  Cool it - Yes.  Strain - Only needed if you do not use a Chux.  The 20 minute boil should boil off a lot of the hop flavour and aroma.  Some will still be there, but not enough for a hop-bomb.

The brew is probably getting close to finished now.  Therefore there will not be much yeast activity to stir up the boil addition.  Sanitise your brew spoon and give the whole contents of the FV a good but gentle stir.  Try not to disturb the yeast cake too much.  But also do not worry about it too much either, it will settle down in a few days.

Thanks again @Shamus O'Sean, We have jumped the gun and did a 30 minute boil of 17g Galaxy and 10g Cluster in 3L water. Cooled and strained the mixture into the FV. I tasted the hop residue left in the strainer, and oh my goodness it was bitter! I will report back when the brew gets to drinking stage. 

[Shamus O'Sean]

3 hours ago, jennyss said:

Thanks again @Shamus O'Sean, We have jumped the gun and did a 30 minute boil of 17g Galaxy and 10g Cluster in 3L water. Cooled and strained the mixture into the FV. I tasted the hop residue left in the strainer, and oh my goodness it was bitter! I will report back when the brew gets to drinking stage. 

Nice work Jenny.  I reckon you have saved your hubby's brew.

[NBillett09]

Put together my ROTM Gold Medal Golden Ale this morning, trying out a new FV that’s nice and clear to watch the fermentation and first time using an actual airlock so looking forward to that experience!

25L

Coopers English Ale yeast

Starting fermentation at 19c will bump up to 21 in a few days.

[Triple B Brewing]

2 hours ago, NBillett09 said:

Put together my ROTM Gold Medal Golden Ale this morning, trying out a new FV that’s nice and clear to watch the fermentation and first time using an actual airlock so looking forward to that experience!

25L

Coopers English Ale yeast

Starting fermentation at 19c will bump up to 21 in a few days.

Go you good thing - nice setup @NBillett09

[Back Brewing]

My Rogers clone in my new pride and joy don't know what I'm doing so just preset the spunding valve to 12psi let it build up pressure and see what happens.

I'm looking forward to watching how this fermentation turns out from now to dry hopping to kegging.

[John304]

On 10/5/2024 at 2:05 PM, Back Brewing said:

My Rogers clone in my new pride and joy don't know what I'm doing so just preset the spunding valve to 12psi let it build up pressure and see what happens.

I'm looking forward to watching how this fermentation turns out from now to dry hopping to kegging.

I’m interested in how your’s turns out, I’m considering getting one myself,

[Aussiekraut]

On 10/5/2024 at 2:35 PM, Back Brewing said:

My Rogers clone in my new pride and joy don't know what I'm doing so just preset the spunding valve to 12psi let it build up pressure and see what happens.

I'm looking forward to watching how this fermentation turns out from now to dry hopping to kegging.

If it is a lager, 12psi is fine. I usually stick between 12 and 15. I keep lagers at 18C and seem to get good results. If it is an ale, drop the pressure down to 3-5. Ale yeasts can cause some problems with esters when the pressure stresses them. Or that is what I've heard and read. 

Keep an eye on the pressure. I've had an issue where I accidentally set the spunding valve too high and the pressure in the fermenter exceeded what the valve could handle and I had wort from A to B in the fridge. It was really quite messy. 

[Red devil 44]

Japanese Lager FWK, no AG this break.

S-189 Yeast, will ferment at 13 degrees. 
 

Have brewed this one before and it was divine, will be lagering so this one is a while away before tasting.

OG- 1040

 

[Back Brewing]

5 hours ago, Aussiekraut said:

If it is a lager, 12psi is fine. I usually stick between 12 and 15. I keep lagers at 18C and seem to get good results. If it is an ale, drop the pressure down to 3-5. Ale yeasts can cause some problems with esters when the pressure stresses them. Or that is what I've heard and read. 

Keep an eye on the pressure. I've had an issue where I accidentally set the spunding valve too high and the pressure in the fermenter exceeded what the valve could handle and I had wort from A to B in the fridge. It was really quite messy. 

Aussie I'm on 12psi don't know what I'm doing but I thought hey I've got to start somewhere and see how it goes it's cracking a long at the moment

 

[Back Brewing]

6 hours ago, John304 said:

I’m interested in how your’s turns out, I’m considering getting one myself,

I'll let you know mate 

[Back Brewing]

17 hours ago, Red devil 44 said:

Japanese Lager FWK, no AG this break.

S-189 Yeast, will ferment at 13 degrees. 
 

Have brewed this one before and it was divine, will be lagering so this one is a while away before tasting.

OG- 1040

 

When do I dry hop with the allrounder? It's day 3 and activity is slowing down and pressure has dropped 1psi should I dry hop now or let it go gor another day?

Edited October 7 by Back Brewing

[Red devil 44]

4 hours ago, Back Brewing said:

When do I dry hop with the allrounder? It's day 3 and activity is slowing down and pressure has dropped 1psi should I dry hop now or let it go gor another day?

Hi @Back Brewing , let the fermentation stop completely, then dry hop late, better aromatics. 

Depends how long you want your brew to go for, let’s say you ferment for 10 days total, I would dry hop around day 7.

I work fifo 14 days on 7 off, so my ferment works like this, dry hop with magnets (I don’t open my fermenter) around day 10, CC around day 12, keg on day 15 or 16. 
I use high strength magnets, normal ones don’t usually work. 
 

Hope this helps .

[Tricky Micky]

1 hour ago, Red devil 44 said:

Hi @Back Brewing , let the fermentation stop completely, then dry hop late, better aromatics. 

Depends how long you want your brew to go for, let’s say you ferment for 10 days total, I would dry hop around day 7.

I work fifo 14 days on 7 off, so my ferment works like this, dry hop with magnets (I don’t open my fermenter) around day 10, CC around day 12, keg on day 15 or 16. 
I use high strength magnets, normal ones don’t usually work. 
 

Hope this helps .

RD44 @Red devil 44, a little off topic so I apologise. Wondering if I could pose a couple of questions. If I had an SS kegmenter ( eg 58 litre) as my ferment vessel could I also use the same vessel to carbonate and pour the beer from it? Would the kegmenter's 304 stainless steel allow for magnets (to stick to the lid area) for dry hopping. If I were able to ferment and pour / serve from the same vessel would allowing hop matter to remain in that vessel for the whole time until the beer was consumed have any negative impact? (Apart from the grassy notes some speak of) Would you have any opinions for the pros and cons on this idea?

Edited October 8 by Tricky Micky

[Red devil 44]

18 minutes ago, Tricky Micky said:

RD44 @Red devil 44, a little off topic so I apologise. Wondering if I could pose this question. If I had a kegmenter ( eg 58 litre) as my ferment vessel could I also use the same vessel to carbonate and pour the beer from? Would the kegmenter's 304 stainless steel allow for magnets for dry hopping. If I were able to ferment and pour / serve from the same vessel would allowing hop matter to remain in that vessel for the whole time until the beer was consumed have any negative impact? Would you have any opinions for the pros and cons on this idea?

Hi @Tricky Micky, I shall give you my opinions.

1. With the kegmenter firstly, 304 stainless has too much austenite in it so magnets will not work.

2. You can certainly ferment & pour from a keg, or rack to a secondary keg to eliminate trub matter etc. I don’t dry hop in kegs but if you did you would have to remove the lid, then drop the hop sock in (introducing oxygen during fermentation which you don’t want) 

I prefer to use my All Rounder for fermentation, that way I can use the magnet dry hop method, which when I am away working all my lovely wife has to do is remove a magnet from the outside of the fermenter. 
 

Hope this helps mate

 

[Tricky Micky]

17 minutes ago, Red devil 44 said:

Hi @Tricky Micky, I shall give you my opinions.

1. With the kegmenter firstly, 304 stainless has too much austenite in it so magnets will not work.

2. You can certainly ferment & pour from a keg, or rack to a secondary keg to eliminate trub matter etc. I don’t dry hop in kegs but if you did you would have to remove the lid, then drop the hop sock in (introducing oxygen during fermentation which you don’t want) 

I prefer to use my All Rounder for fermentation, that way I can use the magnet dry hop method, which when I am away working all my lovely wife has to do is remove a magnet from the outside of the fermenter. 
 

Hope this helps mate

 

Thanks heaps mate, great stuff. I do note that Kegland have a dry hop bong set-up for the kegmenters - which allows for introducing the dry hop without opening the kegmenter ferment vessel - the device allows for the user to purge the hop bong of oxygen with Co2  before dropping the hops. 

I think I may have over thunk the 304 SS and magnet stuff mate and asked a silly question.

The magnets are actually placed one inside the hop bag or whatever and then the second magnet is placed on top of the vessel to allow for the hop bag to attach to the inside of the lid of the fermenter - yes? Sorry if I confused anything there. At least that's what I've been seeing on the vids I've been looking at.

Using the new kegmenter floating dip tube with a filter seems to work reasonably well with keeping trub and hop matter to a minimum in the pour. 

Not sure whether I'll go down this route but thought I'd ask just the same.

Thanks for your feedback RD44, much appreciated. 

Edited October 8 by Tricky Micky

[kmar92]

@Tricky Micky I can confirm that I have not found a magnet that will work with a 58l Kegementer. Also looking at that hop bong it seems to have a considerable height, so unless you considerable clearance in your ferment fridge I doubt whether you could fit the whole thing in the fridge.

[Red devil 44]

11 minutes ago, Tricky Micky said:

Thanks heaps mate, great stuff. I do note that Kegland have a dry hop bong set-up for the kegmenters - which allows for introducing the dry hop without opening the kegmenter ferment vessel - the device allows for the user to purge the hop bong of oxygen with Co2  before dropping the hops. 

Using the new kegmenter floating dip tube with a filter seems to work reasonably well with keeping trub and hop matter to a minimum in the pour. 

Not sure whether I'll go down this route but thought I'd ask just the same.

Thanks for your feedback RD44, much appreciated. 

No worries @Tricky Micky, I use the hop bong with my All Rounder.

Haven't seen one for the kegmenters, have to have a look.

[kmar92]

6 minutes ago, Red devil 44 said:

No worries @Tricky Micky, I use the hop bong with my All Rounder.

Haven't seen one for the kegmenters, have to have a look.

What is the height measurement from the bottom of the lid to the top of the hop bong @Red devil 44? I would like to know if I can fit both the 58l kegmenter and the hop bong in my FV.

[Tricky Micky]

KL hop bong kit for kegmenter

https://kegland.com.au/products/4-inch-tc-hop-bong-pressure-kit?srsltid=AfmBOoodSpzth02IumMM0EiTuPppU0hqxdozj5kOpXI881vUNwUzVnPz

 

 

[Tricky Micky]

23 minutes ago, kmar92 said:

@Tricky Micky I can confirm that I have not found a magnet that will work with a 58l Kegementer. Also looking at that hop bong it seems to have a considerable height, so unless you considerable clearance in your ferment fridge I doubt whether you could fit the whole thing in the fridge.

Hey KM92 @kmar92 and RD 44 @Red devil 44, does any of the following ring true or is it all a bit of smoke and mirrors?

from online:

If you’re using a stainless steel fermenter, you can use a muslin bag packed with your dry hops and a strong magnet. Place the bag of hops above the beer inside the fermenter using another strong magnet on the outside of the fermenter. This will hold the hops in place as active fermentation takes place. When fermentation is complete, remove the magnet from the outside of the fermenter and the hop sack will drop into the beer avoiding oxygen.

[kmar92]

Does not work for me Mick, with the 58l kegmenter and the strongest magnets I could find.