Smithy Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Hey guys, me again with another (possibly silly) question. I've been looking everywhere to try and find this answer but for some reason I can't find it! I'm looking to add some bittering hops to an upcoming brew, but was wondering if I can boil them in plain water for X amount of time to generate the bitterness, or does it have to have malt extract in it? If someone could please explain to me this procedure of bittering hops that would be much appreciated. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 you get better utilisation using a wort with a gravity of approx 1040. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
***** Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 you get better utilisation using a wort with a gravity of approx 1040. For my fifth Brew I boiled 25g of Cascade in just water, something I will never do again. In the same brew I dry hopped 25g of Nelson Sauvin. The Cascade is totally lost on me, the Nelson flavor and aroma is a standout. I reckon I wasted 25g of Cascade. I will have a better idea once I sample my Real Fat Yak where I treated the Nelson and Cascade the same in a 1.040 grain and LDM wort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Nelson, how long did you boil the Cascade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
***** Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Nelson' date=' how long did you boil the Cascade?[/quote'] 15 minutes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 Cool, thanks. Next question... liquid or dry malt? Or does it not really matter? And how much water should I be using? I understand that the less water you use, the less malt you'll need to hit 1.040, I'll also only be using about 14g hops. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
***** Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Cool, thanks. Next question... liquid or dry malt? Or does it not really matter? And how much water should I be using? I understand that the less water you use, the less malt you'll need to hit 1.040, I'll also only be using about 14g hops. Cheers So far, Smithy, I have only used DME because I reckon it is easier to measure. However I don't think it matters except that you need more LME. In my next brew, Bushy Park Blonde, I will be using LME in the boil as the recipe doesn't contain DME. As for boil size the larger the wort size the better the hop concentration, so the theory says. So: "2 litre boil add either 213g DME or 260 LME 4 litre boil add either 427g DME or 519g LME" (Courtesy of IanH's amazing spreasheet). In other words for every 1 litre of water add either 107g of DME or 130g of LME. Just remember when you start using specialty grains the amount of malt will reduce as your wort will consist of grain steepings and malt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 close enough... generally 100g (DME) per L of water... ball park is good enough [whistling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 Sweet thanks [happy] I've been using Ians spread sheet to plan this one, and I've bought all the ingredients, then realised that I wanted to make it slightly more bitter, so I'll just boil some of the hops rather than steeping. Just wasn't sure if I had to use some of the malt or not. It's an all LME recipe so to make things easier I'll probably go to 6L water and just use half a can of the LME so I don't need to measure precisely. Thanks again guys! - I'll get there one day [rightful] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamH1525226084 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Hi guru's. So..... for the Fruit Salad Ale which I will start in a few days, the recipe instructions say... "1. Make a \u201chop infusion\u201d by mixing the Cascade and Amarillo hops in a couple of litres of water just taken off the boil and allow it to steep for 30 mins. " As this is not boiling, is it any different? Should I have DEX or LME in the water too?[unsure] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Yes Adam, about 10% malt. Boil it for a few minutes then turn the heat off and add your hops. EDIT: I'd use malt not dex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 So just to clarify with that one. should you add malt even with steeping hops? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarvo_325 Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Gee I'm glad someone else asked this question because I have been thinking about this for my next brew. So out of interest why can't you boil in plain water? See I do not boil my wort, I follow the coopers instructions and pour all the dry ingredients into the FV then add hot water. So when you want to steep some hops, you should add 100g of LDM into 1 litre of water, bring it to the boil then add the hops?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 So out of interest why can't you boil in plain water? You can. However... you get better utilisation using a wort with a gravity of approx 1040. So when you want to steep some hops, you should add 100g of LDM into 1 litre of water, bring it to the boil then add the hops?? correct, bring it to the boil then remove from heat and add hops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamH1525226084 Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Swoit, thanks Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I'll go against the grain here. If I am only steeping then I just use water and no malt. If I am going to the trouble of adding malt and boiling it then I would boil the hops for a period of time too. Using water for steeping seems to work for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB2 Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 [rightful] **Brewing Myth Alert**[rightful] Beer Fact - Higher density worts have less hop utilisation in the boil. Conversely: lower density worts have more hop utilisation - the highest utilisation would be in plain water. [biggrin] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted February 22, 2012 Author Share Posted February 22, 2012 [rightful] **Brewing Myth Alert**[rightful] Beer Fact - Higher density worts have less hop utilisation in the boil. Conversely: lower density worts have more hop utilisation - the highest utilisation would be in plain water. [biggrin] *mind blown* So just to clarify, if I boil my hops in plain water, I will get better bittering results than adding malt? Or is this just for steeping? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Is that just for bittering or isomorisation of aroma volitiles as well? I have some further research to do it seems, I shall return[roll] What I understood was a gravity of 1030 - 1040 was optimal. Any data on this PB? the BN Hop Caslculations Still listening to it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarvo_325 Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I'm starting to get a little confused now. LOL [unsure] What is best? I will be steeping hops for Aroma, flavour and bitterness. Does the same thing apply when steeping grains, do you have to steep them in LDM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted February 22, 2012 Author Share Posted February 22, 2012 Does the same thing apply when steeping grains' date=' do you have to steep them in LDM?[/quote'] I know the answer to this one! [cool] Steeping the grains is just done in plain water. I've heard of ratios of 1kg grains to 16L water. Not sure if everyone follows this though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarvo_325 Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Phew thanks Smithy, I steeped my grains in plain water last time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 [rightful] **Brewing Myth Alert**[rightful] Beer Fact - Higher density worts have less hop utilisation in the boil. Conversely: lower density worts have more hop utilisation - the highest utilisation would be in plain water. [biggrin] Trust Paul to turn up and throw a spanner in the works.... argh, my head hurts now!! I am with Yob on this one, I too have always believed that 1.030 - 1.040 wort was the best gravity for hop utilisation. Pickle Me Grandmother!!... The gravity of the boil is significant because the higher the malt sugar content of a wort, the less room there is for isomerized alpha acids. Bahhhh!!... I better go back and re-learn everything I know. Obviously that's not too much so not much time wasted. I have a headache!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 It was my belief that what ypu quote bill, related to very high gravity, 1060 and above sort of thing, Will dig into this and would love to see some supporting data for the water argument Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I have spent some time researching this on the good-old reliable internet. After reading conflicting advice after conflicting advice I am none the wiser. The utilisation charts I have found seem to go as low as 1030 but if you continue to extrapolate that it would suggest that utilisation improves as the gravity reaches 1000. Does this mean that if I am only doing an extract brew I would be better off just boiling hops in water and adding the malt either at the end of the boil or in the FV? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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