Daily diary of a virgin (first ever) home brew!

[Pale Man]

36 minutes ago, Pickles Jones said:

Your logs are very detailed, some down to one hundredth of a decimal point.

With the greatest of respect what do you do with this record of your brews other than publish here.

I am interested.

I thought the same   but that's the beauty of this Coopers forum. It caters for all brewers. I love @PILOTSH passion and follow his thread. 

If i have one tiny criticism, he is quite experienced now, and should contribute to other threads as a community does. Give advice that he's picked up here. Maybe instead of using this forum as a personal diary. 

I post up some shite sometimes, but i believe i have a lot to offer and i'll share it no problems. 

[Pale Man]

2 hours ago, pilotsh said:

I save a copy in Word with the pictures so when I am old I can reminisce!

Sharing is caring 

Lots of beginners out there in other threads need you're valuable experience.

[Pezzza]

13 hours ago, Pickles Jones said:

Your logs are very detailed, some down to one hundredth of a decimal point.

With the greatest of respect what do you do with this record of your brews other than publish here.

I am interested.

I reckon for a rank Brewing Beginner what @pilotsh Pilot is doing and has done is amazing @Pickles Jones Pickles... and for someone new this would be such a great thread to have a look through ; )

But I do understand why you ask Pickles as it would seem a vast quantity of effort for little return...   So am surprised that my Favourite Beer Company in Australia Coopers @Coopers DIY Beer Team does not reward @pilotsh with a bit more goodwill on the fact that the Liquid Malt tins were faulty - if it were my Brewery/HB supplier - I would be providing something to Pilot for his troubles.... a bag of hops or something festive... as Pilot is doing @Coopers DIY Beer Team a huge favour in his thread that new brewers would find very valuable... I suspect if @PB2 PB2 were still around he would have sorted out something reasonable and appropriate... I too am disappointed to hear how Pilot has been treated - I am not giving up on Coopers - but I do hope that there is still an opportunity for them to do better in this matter.  At the same time - we must note that they have recompensed Pilot for his losses even though restitution - putting Pilot back in the position he was prior to his losses - may not be quite assured.   Still did get a good package of stuff sent out to him which is better than far call hey ?!

As for the Liquid Malt vs Dry @pilotsh - I believe there is a distinct difference - and my fellow brewer @Red devil 44 Red would emphasise same given his lengthy liquid malt implementations with Coopers kits.   You did the real thing tho Pilot and did side by side testing... so I cannot fault your finding... but I am thinking maybe you need to do both liquid malt AND some dry malt... to get the benefit of the liquid malt... plus I would certainly suggest trying liquid wheat malt... as I think that the impact on head, head retention and creamy mouthfeel is significant.  I think maybe @Shamus O'Sean Shamus you may have found that as well mate?

In past KnK days I brewed a full malt beer - loadsa dry barley malt - kilos and kilos of the stuff as I had purchased a 20kg bag - and the head, retention, mouthfeel etc was poor... was tasty and had ABV and flavour - but creamy top and so on - nix.... And the Coopers kits I brewed with liquid malt tin and box of BE3 as well were better... So I think you might need to get over a certain final SG to get the benefit of the Liquid Malt.   It is a bit like the small bubble-big bubble discussion I have had with @John E Miller JEM recently... but I am very happy to be critiqued on my findings and analysis and happy to be corrected. 

And I do believe that AG and Partial adjuncts are even better as the compounds in malted grain that provide benefit - are able to come through into the final beer... However, I think it is still quite possible to brew a more watery, thin, and lower head style beer doing AG... and this is relevant more so I think in lower final SG beer and certainly in styles such as Saisons.

[Look how far ken dry it was back then hey !?!]

This is a snapshot of my very very first AG brew - the Golden Sunset ANZAC Ale (brewed on Anzac Day a few years ago)... the difference was a quantum leap from all I had previously done after many years of brewing... and I have not looked back... Creamy top - great head - mouthfeel - and head retention.  I think that a cuppla Brewers such as @Aussiekraut AK and @PaddyBrew2 Paddy who started All Graining at similar time as me would agree... and more recently @Hefe Man Hefe Man the Barking Spider would also agree?

But the extra mile for AG is not for all... and there are ways of brewing great beers with kits and or partials as many of our Brewers would agree... 

Anyway... enough Brewing Blither...  am just hoping to contribute to the Beautiful Brewing Journey 

Cheers and Good Brewing All

Edited March 2, 2021 by Graubart

[Aussiekraut]

4 hours ago, Graubart said:

And I do believe that AG and Partial adjuncts are even better as the compounds in malted grain that provide benefit - are able to come through into the final beer... However, I think it is still quite possible to brew a more watery, thin, and lower head style beer doing AG... and this is relevant more so I think in lower final SG beer and certainly in styles such as Saisons.

It's all about ingredients. My mid strength pacific ale comes in at about 2.9% in the bottle and finishes @1.009 (OG 1.028), so not a particularly high FG, although not low as such either. It's head formation and retention is awesome, especially considering it's only 3kg grain for a batch brewed to 26l (I brew to 26l, so I get 21-22l in the FV). So it is by definition "thin". It does however contain a fair amount of wheat malt (⅓ of the grain bill) and wheat always seems to be good for head formation at least. 

4 hours ago, Graubart said:

This is a snapshot of my very very first AG brew - the Golden Sunset ANZAC Ale (brewed on Anzac Day a few years ago)... the difference was a quantum leap from all I had previously done after many years of brewing... and I have not looked back... Creamy top - great head - mouthfeel - and head retention.  I think that a cuppla Brewers such as @Aussiekraut AK and @PaddyBrew2 Paddy who started All Graining at similar time as me would agree... and more recently @Hefe Man Hefe Man the Barking Spider would also agree?

But the extra mile for AG is not for all... and there are ways of brewing great beers with kits and or partials as many of our Brewers would agree... 

Mate, I am so glad I took the plunge into AG. The quality and consistency of my beer is just miles ahead of what I did before. I'm not saying AG is the holy grail and as you said, one can still brew an awful beer doing AG and one can produce some amazing brews with partials or kits 'n' bits. And yes, AG is a fair bit more work. compared to a simple k&k but once you go for all extract and partials, you aren't that far off the AG effort. 

It's not for everyone, I agree but I have yet to speak to an AG brewer who said they'd rather return to other ways of brewing. I love the fact that you can control almost every aspect of your beer and can tweak things to your heart's content.

In the end, everybody makes the beer they want, in the way they want and as long as they're happy with their product, who cares. We don't brew for others, we brew for ourselves. If others like it, that's good and makes you feel good about what you're doing but if they don't, more for me  

 

Edited March 3, 2021 by Aussiekraut

[Pezzza]

40 minutes ago, Aussiekraut said:

In the end, everybody makes the beer they want, in the way they want and as long as they're happy with their product, who cares. We don't brew for others, we brew for ourselves. If others like it, that's good and makes you feel good about what you're doing but if they don't, more for...

...us

Truly spoken @Aussiekraut AK.

And am stoked regards your mid strength beer - well there you go - ok - that sounds very positive... but crank up the wheat -- with its extra protein -- think will make the difference.

Mate you really have thrown down the challenge for me - to try to brew a nice beer a bit lower on ABV... that is cool. 

Will put that on my long list of brews to try ; )

What yeast and brew temp did you use for that Middie Pac Ale mate?

[Aussiekraut]

38 minutes ago, Graubart said:

...us

Truly spoken @Aussiekraut AK.

And am stoked regards your mid strength beer - well there you go - ok - that sounds very positive... but crank up the wheat -- with its extra protein -- think will make the difference.

Mate you really have thrown down the challenge for me - to try to brew a nice beer a bit lower on ABV... that is cool. 

Will put that on my long list of brews to try ; )

What yeast and brew temp did you use for that Middie Pac Ale mate?

Windsor yeast @18C

45minute mash @72C makes plenty of non-fermentable sugars for more body and low ABV. 2kg MO, 1kg wheat and 200g medium crystal for a little extra colour. 

[pilotsh]

On 3/2/2021 at 11:53 PM, Hefe Man said:

Sharing is caring 

Lots of beginners out there in other threads need you're valuable experience.

 

On 3/3/2021 at 10:46 AM, Graubart said:

would seem a vast quantity of effort for little return... 

 

I try to go through other threads and post when I can.

As for my thread, if one person looks at it and it answers a question so they don't need to create a new thread/topic, then it is worth it.

 

[pilotsh]

22 hours ago, Aussiekraut said:

In the end, everybody makes the beer they want, in the way they want and as long as they're happy with their product, who cares. We don't brew for others, we brew for ourselves. If others like it, that's good and makes you feel good about what you're doing but if they don't, more for me  

That is such a perfect way to look at this Brewing thing!

[Pezzza]

22 hours ago, Aussiekraut said:

Windsor yeast @18C

45minute mash @72C makes plenty of non-fermentable sugars for more body and low ABV. 2kg MO, 1kg wheat and 200g medium crystal for a little extra colour. 

What would your start and finish OG be mate?

And does Windsor stay up a bit i.e. does not attenuate out that far - a bit more like the Pommy Ale Yeasts can have slightly higher FGs?

[Aussiekraut]

11 minutes ago, Graubart said:

What would your start and finish OG be mate?

And does Windsor stay up a bit i.e. does not attenuate out that far - a bit more like the Pommy Ale Yeasts can have slightly higher FGs?

OG was 1.028 and FG 1.009 from memory. Attenuation is about 65% but with the low amount of fermentables, I'm not surprised. It just ran out of food  

[Pezzza]

15 minutes ago, Aussiekraut said:

OG was 1.028 and FG 1.009 from memory. Attenuation is about 65% but with the low amount of fermentables, I'm not surprised. It just ran out of food  

But @Aussiekraut AK you are getting good head, head retention, body and creamy mouthfeel - suspect helped enormously by the Wheat Malt in the brew - so when I try to do a somewhat lower ABV beer that is going to be really good input and help!   (and sorry mate - you had noted the SGs in earlier post - apologies - thank you for your patience)

I talked to a brewer and staff member at CPB Sam and he noted that some of the British Ale Yeasts can stop even as high as 1016... which would leave a little residual sweetness, maltiness and body.  Am not that fired up about sweetness - but body and maltiness for a lower ABV beer would be great.  Am thinking that maybe I would brew an ESB Ale with my Lallemand ESB Dry Yeast and harvest some yeast slurry and then try an Ale a bit like yours, with Maris Otter and Wheat... maybe EKG... and then with the ESB Yeast... might be interesting?

 

[Aussiekraut]

31 minutes ago, Graubart said:

But @Aussiekraut AK you are getting good head, head retention, body and creamy mouthfeel - suspect helped enormously by the Wheat Malt in the brew - so when I try to do a somewhat lower ABV beer that is going to be really good input and help!   (and sorry mate - you had noted the SGs in earlier post - apologies - thank you for your patience)

I talked to a brewer and staff member at CPB Sam and he noted that some of the British Ale Yeasts can stop even as high as 1016... which would leave a little residual sweetness, maltiness and body.  Am not that fired up about sweetness - but body and maltiness for a lower ABV beer would be great.  Am thinking that maybe I would brew an ESB Ale with my Lallemand ESB Dry Yeast and harvest some yeast slurry and then try an Ale a bit like yours, with Maris Otter and Wheat... maybe EKG... and then with the ESB Yeast... might be interesting?

 

I suppose the non-fermentable sugars cause some sweetness but not like sugar water  The problem is that with only 60% of my usual grain bill, I had to be a little creative to avoid a watery beer. The high temp mash makes sure lots of starch will be converted into sugars the yeast can't digest, leaving more goodness to aid the body. The wheat malt is what I presume aids the head formation and retention. The beer is also remarkably clear, even without finings. Chill haze is at a minimum but again, I suppose the lack of proteins in the beer is responsible for the apparent clarity. 

I guess in the end, the yeast doesn't matter much, although I vaguely remember reading somewhere that a British ale yeast might be a good idea. Maybe I didn't want to use S04 and didn't have any Notty, so I used Windsor. 

I used Galaxy as a single hop as it is supposed to be a "pacific ale". I based the recipe on a full strength PA but adjusted the hop schedule a little as IBUs were through the roof and I still sometimes think the initial bitterness is a little "harsh", although the beer is nice and people seem to like it too. I think I went with 5g @60, 20g @5, 20g as a 10 minute steep @80 and 35g for dry hopping. None of my two Beersmith enabled machines are accessible from here, so I cannot look at the recipe but it was something like that.

I've brewed 2 batches of it so far and can't fault it much but I may have gotten a slight infection in the first batch. It appears to have a little sour taste to it. I'm considering a batch with different hops. I like Mosaic as a single hop, so maybe I go that way but I'll leave the grist as it is. It seems to work quite well.

 

[Pezzza]

1 minute ago, Aussiekraut said:

I've brewed 2 batches of it so far and can't fault it much...

I'm considering a batch with different hops. I like Mosaic as a single hop, so maybe I go that way but I'll leave the grist as it is. It seems to work quite well.

Beautiful stuff @Aussiekraut AK - what a good way to make a lower ABV beer with still some "real beer characteristics"!!

I think Mosaic is a great hop for the IPA and Pacific Ale style of brew... and would reckon that would be very nice indeed - let us know how that transpires 

It will take me a little while to get around to trying something like this but reckon it is a great idea... have to do that ESB first and then after that try a lower ABV with your good suggestion.

 

Goodness me @pilotsh Pilot - look what you've started here mate!?!  

[Hairy]

1 hour ago, Graubart said:

I talked to a brewer and staff member at CPB Sam and he noted that some of the British Ale Yeasts can stop even as high as 1016... which would leave a little residual sweetness, maltiness and body.  Am not that fired up about sweetness - but body and maltiness for a lower ABV beer would be great.  Am thinking that maybe I would brew an ESB Ale with my Lallemand ESB Dry Yeast and harvest some yeast slurry and then try an Ale a bit like yours, with Maris Otter and Wheat... maybe EKG... and then with the ESB Yeast... might be interesting?

I have used Windsor in my English Milds that were mashed high and finished around 1018-1020.

It wasn't what I would call sweet at all.

[Pezzza]

53 minutes ago, Hairy said:

I have used Windsor in my English Milds that were mashed high and finished around 1018-1020.

It wasn't what I would call sweet at all.

That's really cool @Hairy Hairy - what OG would you have had for those babies?

[Hairy]

6 minutes ago, Graubart said:

That's really cool @Hairy Hairy - what OG would you have had for those babies?

About 1038

[Pezzza]

3 minutes ago, Hairy said:

About 1038

Oki doki thanks mate - so what malts did you use in the mash and what sort of temperature?

[Hairy]

I will dig out the recipe tomorrow but I mashed at 70°C.

[Pezzza]

6 minutes ago, Hairy said:

I will dig out the recipe tomorrow but I mashed at 70°C.

Thanks mate... am thinking that @Aussiekraut AK's combo of Maris Otter and Wheat may not be a bad starting point... and am interested to see what you utilised.

Am in general a higher ABV brewer, but I think it might be a reasonable idea eventually to see if it's possible to brew a nice beer that is not so high in Octane 

[Hairy]

A beer that finishes at 1020 may not have the alcohol impact but it definitely isn’t great for the waistline.

[Hairy]

15 hours ago, Graubart said:

Oki doki thanks mate - so what malts did you use in the mash and what sort of temperature?

It was a recipe I got from another forum.

3kg Maris Otter
150g Aromatic malt
150g Biscuit malt
250g Medium Crystal
100g Chocolate malt
30g Roast Barley

20g Challenger @ 60 mins
10g Challenger @ 10 mins
 

[Pezzza]

26 minutes ago, Hairy said:

It was a recipe I got from another forum.

Nice @Hairy Hairy - looks really good.  Thanks very much!

And @Aussiekraut as AK has used... goes well on the Maris Otter.

And mash at 70 deg hey?

[Hairy]

3 minutes ago, Graubart said:

And mash at 70 deg hey?

I would probably mash at 69 degrees and then mash out.

You probably don't need a 60 minute mash either; it will probably be fully converted after 30-45 minutes. So a good one for a quick brew day.

[pilotsh]

Brew 015: ‘Bootmaker on a Rollercoaster’ American Pale Ale- Saturday 6^th March 2021: 443 hours / 18.5 days from pitching to bottling. (Ferm 226h/9.4d, cold crash 217h/9.04d)    

FG (SG): 1014.5 therefore Brew 15 is 5.0%ABV (4.5+0.5). Spreadsheet check of 1015 and 5.4 makes sense.   

Comments: Bottle primed with carbonation drops. Taste to bitterness seemed balanced, and SG dropped 1.5 as some hop oils and yeast has been pulled from the brew during cold crash. 

Cannot wait to taste this after the 4 weeks bottle conditioning!   

Photo(s):   

 

[pilotsh]

Brew 014: Maple Amber Ale: Friday 12th March: Taste test

Appearance: Black tea. Bubbly (not foamy) head that dissipates, but bubble patches hang around, like a normal beer!

Nose: Nothing special. Stone fruit, hints of green tropical fruit, bark and hints of maple.

Palate: Bold and waxy. Not as amazing as we thought it would be, and definitely a heavier beer than we thought it would be. Not a large amount variance: Maple, apricot and bitterness.

Comments: Sugar prime side-by-side only had a small difference: It was marginally both “lighter/more watery” and “less sweet” than the maple prime. However, drinking one or the other, you probably would not notice any difference. I would not use so much maple in the future, it leads to a “heavy/waxier” beer. Maple in the beer or as a prime, both is too overpowering.

Photo(s):

Edited March 14, 2021 by pilotsh