Daily diary of a virgin (first ever) home brew!

[pilotsh]

 

   18 hours ago,  MUZZY said: 

There was an issue with a filling machine not filling a couple of batches correctly. Hence the lower level of liquid, which in turn provided an air pocket for mould to form. Use the Contact Us link at the bottom of the page. Coopers will see you right. I had the same thing happen a few weeks ago.
I wouldn't use them. Retain the tins for the batch numbers for Coopers reference.

@Graubart and @jamiek86 : @MUZZY posted the above on my live (at the time) help thread here: https://community.diybeer.com/topic/15722-live-help-question-right-now-missing-ingredients-will-this-save-it-or-ruin-it/?do=findComment&comment=234246

For the record and so you can check you cans at home if you have Batch 148/20, be sure to rush out now and buy some backup malt! If you bought the ROTM Hazy IPA Pack, I recommend you check your batch. This batch was in my ROTM Hazy IPA pack and 3 separate cans I bought, so in total 4 cans were lost/mouldy/faulty.

As for the resolution, it’s still in discussion, but not looking generous or service recovery orientated. 

Edited February 16, 2021 by pilotsh
Clarity of batch number in ROTM

[Shamus O'Sean]

12 hours ago, pilotsh said:

you bought the ROTM Hazy IPA Pack

That's me.  I will check out the batch number.  Thanks for the heads-up.

[Journeyman]

13 hours ago, pilotsh said:

For the record and so you can check you cans at home if you have Batch 148/20, be sure to rush out now and buy some backup malt!

As for the resolution, it’s still in discussion, but not looking generous or service recovery orientated

Thanks for the heads up, hope Coopers sorts it for you. You've heard back from Coopers? I'm surprised they haven't been more responsive - normally they are very good on issues.

[Pezzza]

17 hours ago, pilotsh said:

For the record and so you can check you cans at home

Only got sacks of malted grain... tx tho.

Wd like to think your faulty goods wd b replaced!

[pilotsh]

Brew 015: ‘Bootmaker on a Rollercoaster’ American Pale Ale: Wednesday 17th February: 46.0 (1.92 days) since pitch.

Brew Temp: 18.4C at post, mostly 18.8-19.0C

Comments: Uniform bubbly Krausen, light banana bread aroma starting: normal progress.

Photo(s):  

[pilotsh]

 

Brew 015: ‘Bootmaker on a Rollercoaster’ American Pale Ale: Thursday 18th February: 70 hrs (2.92 days) since pitch.

Brew Temp: 19.0 at post, mostly 18.8-19.0C

Comments: And as quick as the Krausen rode in, it rode out: Completely gone! No more banana bread smell, but still estery and fermenty. Normal progress, I guess, but the most pathetic excuse for a nice foamy “typical” ferment that I have seen. Small champagne style bubbles still steaming to the surface. The small bits you see in the photo are just sediment to my eye, I hope.

Photo(s):  

Edited February 18, 2021 by pilotsh

[pilotsh]

Brew 015: ‘Bootmaker on a Rollercoaster’ American Pale Ale: 

Friday 19th February:  90 hrs (3.75 days) since pitch.

Brew Temp: 19.3C

Comments: Still bubbles streaming to surface.

Photo(s): Nil

——————————

Saturday 20th February: 114 hrs (4.75 days) since pitch.

Brew Temp: 19.2C

Comments: Activity decreasing.

Photo(s): Nil

——————————

 

Sunday 21st February: 138 hrs (5.75 days) since pitch.

Brew Temp: 18.8C

Comments: Appears Calm. Will check SG Monday and Tuesday.

Photo(s): Nil

 

Edited February 22, 2021 by pilotsh

[pilotsh]

Brew 015: ‘Bootmaker on a Rollercoaster’ American Pale Ale: 

Monday 22nd February:  165 hrs (6.88 days) since pitch.

Brew Temp: 18.7C

SG: 1016

Appearance: Cloudy Orange Straw

Nose: Pine, but also very light hints of Rose/Turkish Delight.

Palate: Nothing too bold, light fruits, but a definite lingering bitterness, light and green, typical of an American Pale Ale. Actually pretty delicious, fresh. I think I can cut a little bitterness out with the cold crash and it will be a great batch.

Comments: No surface action. Floating bits of something on the surface, but it just looks like sediment of some sort.

Photo(s): 

[Pezzza]

16 hours ago, pilotsh said:

Floating bits of something on the surface, but it just looks like sediment of some sort.

Hopefully it is a bit of dried froth Pilot

If it were sediment would it not be on the bottom?  Not trying to be a @#$%arse... 

Anyway... some sort of detritus evident yes... hopefully just a bit of dried crusty Kräussen and no other beastly phenomenon 

[Tricky Micky]

On 2/16/2021 at 7:42 PM, pilotsh said:

There was an issue with a filling machine not filling a couple of batches correctly. Hence the lower level of liquid, which in turn provided an air pocket for mould to form. Use the Contact Us link at the bottom of the page. Coopers will see you right. I had the same thing happen a few weeks ago.
I wouldn't use them. Retain the tins for the batch numbers for Coopers reference.

@Graubart and @jamiek86 : @MUZZY posted the above on my live (at the time) help thread here: https://community.diybeer.com/topic/15722-live-help-question-right-now-missing-ingredients-will-this-save-it-or-ruin-it/?do=findComment&comment=234246

For the record and so you can check you cans at home if you have Batch 148/20, be sure to rush out now and buy some backup malt! If you bought the ROTM Hazy IPA Pack, I recommend you check your batch. This batch was in my ROTM Hazy IPA pack and 3 separate cans I bought, so in total 4 cans were lost/mouldy/faulty.

As for the resolution, it’s still in discussion, but not looking generous or service recovery orientated. 

Hey Pilot, just opened batch 148/20 and not any sign of mould. I opened from the top of the can so no clue if it was sitting on the bottom. Closed my eyes and poured. I don't know what this means - just to let you guys know.

[Pezzza]

On 2/16/2021 at 7:42 PM, pilotsh said:

As for the resolution, it’s still in discussion, but not looking generous or service recovery orientated.

Australian Consumer Law @pilotsh - if they are not being helpful remind them of their obligation:

Kindly summarised on the ACCC website... my highlighting...

Consumer guarantees on products and services

Since 1 January 2011, the following consumer guarantees on products and services apply.

Products must be of acceptable quality, that is:

• safe, lasting, with no faults
• look acceptable
• do all the things someone would normally expect them to do.

Acceptable quality takes into account what would normally be expected for the type of product and cost.

Products must:

• match descriptions made by the salesperson, on packaging and labels, and in promotions or advertising
• match any demonstration model or sample you asked for
• be fit for the purpose the business told you it would be fit for and for any purpose that you made known to the business before purchasing
• come with full title and ownership
• not carry any hidden debts or extra charges
• come with undisturbed possession, so no one has a right to take the goods away or prevent you from using them
• meet any extra promises made about performance, condition and quality, such as life time guarantees and money back offers
• have spare parts and repair facilities available for a reasonable time after purchase unless you were told otherwise.

[pilotsh]

2 hours ago, Mickep said:

Hey Pilot, just opened batch 148/20 and not any sign of mould. I opened from the top of the can so no clue if it was sitting on the bottom. Closed my eyes and poured. I don't know what this means - just to let you guys know.

Thanks for the info. How full was the can? All four of my mouldy ones had about 2.5cm/1 inch of air. Possibly the ones that were filled fully were fine.

[pilotsh]

2 hours ago, Graubart said:

Australian Consumer Law @pilotsh - if they are not being helpful remind them of their obligation:

Thanks Graubart. Yes indeed! As a member of Choice I am aware but I didn’t want to go at them like a bull at a gate. I chased it today and apparently there is only one person in that department and they seemed overwhelmed and short. They did mention they would send the equivalent in dry malt, not sure why they can’t send liquid, but then at the same time said would send a replacement can of Bootmakers too. I’ll reserve my judgment once I see what I actually get in the package. I want to reserve final judgement until I see what actually arrives.

But it certainly seems like a slip at the start from Coopers here...

 

[pilotsh]

Brew 015: ‘Bootmaker on a Rollercoaster’ American Pale Ale: 

Tuesday 23rd February: 188 hrs (7.83days) since pitch.

Brew Temp: 18.8C

SG: 1016

Appearance: Cloudy Orange Straw

Nose: Pine, but also very light hints of Rose/Turkish Delight. Today also some orange.

Palate: Nothing too bold, nice light citrus starting to come out, light fruits, but a definite lingering bitterness, light and green, typical of an American Pale Ale. Even more rounded and mellowed together than yesterday!

Comments: Bumped the temperature to 20C to ensure fermentation is complete. @Graubart On closer inspection the floating bits do look like bits of Krausen. So all good!

Photo(s): Nil.

Edited February 23, 2021 by pilotsh

[Tricky Micky]

4 hours ago, pilotsh said:

Thanks for the info. How full was the can? All four of my mouldy ones had about 2.5cm/1 inch of air. Possibly the ones that were filled fully were fine.

The one I opened was almost full to the top. 

[Pezzza]

11 hours ago, Mickep said:

The one I opened was almost full to the top. 

My vague distant memory hahah ; ) says that there was always a bit of an air gap wasn't there Mick?

[Pezzza]

16 hours ago, pilotsh said:

Thanks Graubart. Yes indeed! As a member of Choice I am aware but I didn’t want to go at them like a bull at a gate. I chased it today and apparently there is only one person in that department and they seemed overwhelmed and short. They did mention they would send the equivalent in dry malt, not sure why they can’t send liquid, but then at the same time said would send a replacement can of Bootmakers too. I’ll reserve my judgment once I see what I actually get in the package. I want to reserve final judgement until I see what actually arrives.

But it certainly seems like a slip at the start from Coopers here...

 

Coopers are a good company hope it all works out well Pilot.

Yeah had to be a production problem... I had a tin of bamboo shoots recently in a vegetarian curry and was three years out of date and just fine.

Though saline and low pH (brine/pickle) solutions are not favoured by microbes whereas a wort is just beautiful food source for beasts to attack and colonise 

[Tricky Micky]

20 minutes ago, Graubart said:

My vague distant memory hahah ; ) says that there was always a bit of an air gap wasn't there Mick?

Yeah an air gap of about just under a centimeter or so.  I'm with Muzzy and Pilot on this though - still going to avoid that batch number from now on.

[pilotsh]

On 2/17/2021 at 8:56 AM, Journeyman said:

Thanks for the heads up, hope Coopers sorts it for you. You've heard back from Coopers? I'm surprised they haven't been more responsive - normally they are very good on issues.

Maybe they are short staffed because of Covid, but apparently there is one person in the service department currently, and it is noticeable that they need more- messages were short and terse. I didn’t even get to find out why they sent replacement dry malt instead of liquid malt cans....

So I had four faulty cans of Liquid Light Malt, 6kg. Needed to use a dry malt from the ROTM Hazy IPA and a BE2 to save the brew.

Products sent as a replacement: 5kg of dry malt, a BE2 and BE3, and a can on Bootmaker Pale Ale.

From my Brews 4-7 I learnt that cans have more than 20% water, more like 25%, so 6kg liquid malt is 4.5kg dry, plus one box (500g) of dry malt total 5kg: exactly what they sent.

In a nutshell, it was an equivalent replacement, no good will bonus adjuncts or extras, even though a few little hops or grains or lactose probably costs them peanuts. So I’m not ‘out of pocket’, (well technically I am because liquid malt is more expensive) but weirdly, I still feel deflated by the way it was handled. While I am  not going to stop using Coopers, I certainly feel less inclined to “support” them when they are on tap when we will be out an about at venues. Not that I even deliberately want to avoid buying it, but seeing them on tap will automatically remind me of this experience.

It’s a shame.

 

Edited February 28, 2021 by pilotsh

[Journeyman]

16 hours ago, pilotsh said:

In a nutshell, it was an equivalent replacement

Um... No it isn't.

There are any number of guys on here who will swear LDME is NOT equivalent to LME. Back when I started (and even more recently) I've had advice to go with LME and "you'll never look back" assurances.  Also if you look at their recipes, they never say "LME or X amount of LDME" so they know the 2 things are not equal as well.

I'm surprised - my impression was Coopers have always been willing to go the extra step for public relations. I'd write them a nicely worded email about your experience and explain that the beers you were making needed LME.

[pilotsh]

27 minutes ago, Journeyman said:

I'm surprised - my impression was Coopers have always been willing to go the extra step for public relations.

So was mine- I’ve now updated it to match reality.

 

27 minutes ago, Journeyman said:

There are any number of guys on here who will swear LDME is NOT equivalent to LME.

In my brews 4-7 where the only difference was LME/LDME we could not tell the difference. I am not saying there isn’t a difference, but in two separate comparison brew occassions we couldn’t find anything tangible in final product that would support that line of thought.

 

27 minutes ago, Journeyman said:

I'd write them a nicely worded email

Yeah ok.... but to who!? There is only one person in the customer service department at the moment! It’s like going to your boss to complain about your boss!

Edited February 28, 2021 by pilotsh
LME/LDME

[Journeyman]

1 hour ago, pilotsh said:

Yeah ok.... but to who!? There is only one person in the customer service department at the moment! It’s like going to your boss to complain about your boss!

As a rule, for servicve type complaints I would start with Service. If no joy, I'd research and find the Manager or CEO and send something to them. Bosses tend not to like getting messages that ought to have been dealt with by the ones responsible for the immediate area.

Just a "Not Happy Jan!" email explaining your disappointment would do I think. With details so it can be corrected. I'd also mention being an active member on the forums...

Edited March 1, 2021 by Journeyman

[pilotsh]

Brew 015: ‘Bootmaker on a Rollercoaster’ American Pale Ale: 

Wednesday 24th February: 212 hrs (8.83days) since pitch.

Brew Temp: 20.0C

SG: 1016

Comments: No change to SG.

Photo(s): Nil.

--------------------------------------

Thursday 25th February: 226 hrs (9.4 days) pitching to cold crash.

Brew Temp: 20.0C

SG: 1016

Comments: Cold Crash to 2C commenced.

Photo(s): Nil.

--------------------------------------

Friday 26th February to Monday 1st March: Cold Crashing

Brew Temp: 1.8C

Comments: Cold Crashing at 2C.

Photo(s): Nil.

--------------------------------------

Tuesday 2nd March: 118 hrs (4.92 days) since cold crash.

Brew Temp: 1.9C

Comments: Will taste and maybe bottle tomorrow.

Photo(s): Nil.

[Pickles Jones]

33 minutes ago, pilotsh said:

Brew 015: ‘Bootmaker on a Rollercoaster’ American Pale Ale: 

Your logs are very detailed, some down to one hundredth of a decimal point.

With the greatest of respect what do you do with this record of your brews other than publish here.

I am interested.

[pilotsh]

2 minutes ago, Pickles Jones said:

With the greatest of respect what do you do with this record of your brews other than publish here.

I save a copy in Word with the pictures so when I am old I can reminisce!