What's in Your Fermenter? 2020

[Tricky Micky]

16 minutes ago, Bearded Burbler said:

Now can you stop bothering me please I am supposed to be kegging my IPA hahahha 

With that in mind BB, my lips are sealed.

[Shamus O'Sean]

23 minutes ago, Mickep said:

Awesomeness BB, many thanks mate and I'll be sure to report back with an update at the completion of the diacetyl rest and the subsequent tasting which may have to follow.

Like BB, I now raise the temperature of all my ale brews by 2°C once I am under an SG of 1.020.  The I leave it for a few days.

Does it help?  I do not know.

Does it make a difference?  I do not know.

Does it hurt?  I doubt it.

I figure that it is good to leave the brew for a couple of days once fermentation is complete.  This allows the yeast to clean up after itself.  It helps the clean-up if the temperature is a bit warmer.

[Tricky Micky]

19 minutes ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

Like BB, I now raise the temperature of all my ale brews by 2°C once I am under an SG of 1.020.  The I leave it for a few days.

Does it help?  I do not know.

Does it make a difference?  I do not know.

Does it hurt?  I doubt it.

I figure that it is good to leave the brew for a couple of days once fermentation is complete.  This allows the yeast to clean up after itself.  It helps the clean-up if the temperature is a bit warmer.

Thanks heaps Shamus. I'll definitely wind the temp up when SG hits around 1.020 and let it rest for 2-3 days. According to the link @Bearded Burbler BB provided for the Yeast and Diacetyl rest there's a line in there that supports the procedure of Diacetyl rests for Ale yeast even when fermented at Ale temps. At least that's the way I'm interpreting it. 

[Shamus O'Sean]

6 minutes ago, Mickep said:

Thanks heaps Shamus. I'll definitely wind the temp up when SG hits around 1.020 and let it rest for 2-3 days. According to the link @Bearded Burbler BB provided for the Yeast and Diacetyl rest there's a line in there that supports the procedure of Diacetyl rests for Ale yeast even when fermented at Ale temps. At least that's the way I'm interpreting it. 

These are the guys that will know.  So normal ale brewing temperature is already fine for diacetyl removal.  So no need to heat ales.  I will keep doing it though.

[jamiek86]

I can't believe even today the krausen on my ale with us05 is thick and active i want to dry hop isn't it usually best to wait until Krausen has gone has anyone dry hopped before krausen gone?

[Pickles Jones]

29 minutes ago, jamiek86 said:

I can't believe even today the krausen on my ale with us05 is thick and active i want to dry hop isn't it usually best to wait until Krausen has gone has anyone dry hopped before krausen gone?

Yes you can. Dry Hopping can be done at anytime from pitching the yeast. I have lager in the FV which I am dry hopping. I put the hops (Citra) in the FV just after pitching the yeast.  I dry hopped a Lager a few months ago the same and it turned out OK for me. You can adjust the time in the FV to suit yourself. 

Edited November 20, 2020 by Pickles Jones

[Pezzza]

Wotsinyerfermenter.... mmm.... a washing up job : |

That's after I mop the floor haha!?! 

[jamiek86]

16 minutes ago, Pickles Jones said:

Yes you can. Dry Hopping can be done at anytime from pitching the yeast. I have lager in the FV which I am dry hopping. I put the hops (Citra) in the FV just after pitching the yeast.  I dry hopped a Lager a few months ago the same and it turned out OK for me. You can adjust the time in the FV to suit yourself. 

thanks might take gravity reading now then chuck some galaxy in heard its a bit overpowering so best in small amounts?

[Pezzza]

18 minutes ago, Pickles Jones said:

Yes you can. Dry Hopping can be done at anytime from pitching the yeast. I have lager in the FV which I am dry hopping. I put the hops (Citra) in the FV just after pitching the yeast.  I dry hopped a Lager a few months ago the same and it turned out OK for me. You can adjust the time in the FV to suit yourself. 

True it can (as it is possible) be done at any time Pickles - it is just if you leave it till the froth and bubble has subsided - the theory is that you are likely to lose less of the volatiles - the aromatic compounds you hope you will enjoy breathing in at the time of partaking of the brew.... I love the smell of the late hop - but I reckon if you are smelling loads while its in the FV maybe that is all that nice stuff that is going off into the atmosphere and not into your brew.... hence I sorta think better to wait until the most festive part of the ferment is over...  

So  @jamiek86 JK as Head Brewer at JK Breweries... you will have to make that difficult decision... if most of the OG-->FG trip is over I reckon you are right to go...

Sometimes it can take a little while for the lovely fluffy duck on top to collapse...  

And then there is this thing about having LH in too long causing grassy flavours... so it is a balance... and I am no expert

As for Galaxy - the severity is more associated with a long boil and bitterness... when it comes to Late Hop I reckon the more the better meself 

Edited November 20, 2020 by Bearded Burbler

[Pickles Jones]

1 minute ago, Bearded Burbler said:

True it can (as it is possible) be done at any time Pickles - it is just if you leave it till the froth and bubble has subsided - the theory is that you are likely to lose less of the volatiles - the aromatic compounds you hope you will enjoy breathing in at the time of partaking of the brew.... I love the smell of the late hop - but I reckon if you are smelling loads while its in the FV maybe that is all that nice stuff that is going off into the atmosphere and not into your brew.... hence I sorta think better to wait until the most festive part of the ferment is over...  

So  @jamiek86 JK as Head Brewer at JK Breweries... you will have to make that difficult decision... if most of the OG-->FG trip is over I reckon you are right to go...

Sometimes it can take a little while for the lovely fluffy duck on top to collapse...  

And then there is this thing about having them in too long causing grassy flavours... so it is a balance... and I am no expert

I very good point.

[Pezzza]

And then there seems to be this next level of excellence haha.... the festive Blichman Hop Rocket that CPB do.... but whether I ever get to that level I am not sure...

Mmm maybe wait until Sunday evening and see how I go from there ; )

Threw in another 50g of hops into the keg in a teaball... hoping that might add a bit of hop zing as well.... 

[Pezzza]

On 11/18/2020 at 5:58 PM, Mirek Kania said:

Bloody Weihenstephens gone for a walk out the FV. They produced about 11 liters of foam out of 22,5l beer.

What temp was that at Mirek - and was it from Dry Yeast - or harvested slurry or ?

[jamiek86]

23 minutes ago, Bearded Burbler said:

True it can (as it is possible) be done at any time Pickles - it is just if you leave it till the froth and bubble has subsided - the theory is that you are likely to lose less of the volatiles - the aromatic compounds you hope you will enjoy breathing in at the time of partaking of the brew.... I love the smell of the late hop - but I reckon if you are smelling loads while its in the FV maybe that is all that nice stuff that is going off into the atmosphere and not into your brew.... hence I sorta think better to wait until the most festive part of the ferment is over...  

So  @jamiek86 JK as Head Brewer at JK Breweries... you will have to make that difficult decision... if most of the OG-->FG trip is over I reckon you are right to go...

Sometimes it can take a little while for the lovely fluffy duck on top to collapse...  

And then there is this thing about having LH in too long causing grassy flavours... so it is a balance... and I am no expert

As for Galaxy - the severity is more associated with a long boil and bitterness... when it comes to Late Hop I reckon the more the better meself 

thanks gravity is at 1.015 so I think its getting close considering was 1.047 start might put in 25 grams just to test that out then know if more next time. heard its stronger than Amarillo used to use between 30 to 50 off that and was enough.

[Hairy]

3 hours ago, Bearded Burbler said:

Think I was reprimanded for suggesting such a thing (DiAcRest for an Ale) at one stage by the Master Brewers on this site... think the direction was that this was not necessary for Ale Yeast...  

Luckily I'm not a Master Brewer.

As you mentioned, ale yeasts produce diacetyl, some more than others. When fermenting warm a D-Rest isn't really necessary because it is in the right temp to clean it up. If I fermented an ale yeast at the cooler end of the range then I would do a D-rest.

Edit: Sorry, I thought I was responding to one of the last posts in the thread. When I hit post it flicked over to the next page and everyone had moved on. 

Edited November 20, 2020 by Hairy

[jamiek86]

28 minutes ago, Hairy said:

Luckily I'm not a Master Brewer.

As you mentioned, ale yeasts produce diacetyl, some more than others. When fermenting warm a D-Rest isn't really necessary because it is in the right temp to clean it up. If I fermented an ale yeast at the cooler end of the range then I would do a D-rest.

Edit: Sorry, I thought I was responding to one of the last posts in the thread. When I hit post it flicked over to the next page and everyone had moved on. 

not the first or last one to do that

[Mirek Kania]

48 minutes ago, Bearded Burbler said:

What temp was that at Mirek - and was it from Dry Yeast - or harvested slurry or ?

Fermentation temperature was 20C.

The yeast was Wyeast3068 Weihenstephen Weizen 1 ml harvested directly from oryginal Wyeast package, then stored for a year in 4 ml NaCl physiological solution in 3 degrees temperature in my fridge. Then taken out the fridge and started first in 100 ml 6 Plato starter for 2 days continuously stirred on a magnetic stirrer, then again continuously stirred in 1200 ml 10 Plato, for another 36 hours.

 

[Tone boy]

8 hours ago, Mickep said:

Got a pseudo lager happening in the FV using Nottingham yeast. Fermenting it at 15 degrees Celsius. OG 1055 with Expected FG to be 1015. Day 4 and it's at 1020, is that a beast of a yeast or what? @ 15 Degrees c. One query though - with the Nott Ale yeast fermenting at 15 degrees would I still require  a diacetyl rest near the end of primary fermentation?

following on from BB’s post (thanks BB) about a diacetyl rest for the ales, this is kinda related. Using w34/70 yeast at ambient (ale) temps seems like it could be a thing. Apparently it still ferments pretty clean at the higher end of its range. Here’s an interesting article on it...
https://brulosophy.com/2016/02/08/fermentation-temperature-pt-4-lager-yeast-saflager-3470-exbeeriment-results/

I like lager styles, but don’t have ability to control temp. I’ve done a couple in the garage over winter which turned out well, but now it’s warmer and I’m still thirsty! So naturally a pseudo lager is appealing to me. 
I’d be interested in your recipe and how it goes with the Nottingham. 
 

I think I’m going to have a crack at some “lagers” over summer (sorry Otto) and try out W34/70, Nottingham and whatever other yeasts may work ok at higher temps. If I stumble across a win I’ll be happy to share. Cheers TB.  

 

[Pezzza]

14 hours ago, Mirek Kania said:

stored for a year in 4 ml NaCl physiological solution in 3 degrees

Best to store in physiological NaCl rather than just leave in 'beer solution'?

I just leave my 3068 submerged under beer and keep at 2 deg C (well at least when the power is on... fires last year and storms this year we had some power outages)...

Maybe not best practice?

[Pezzza]

9 hours ago, Tone boy said:

I think I’m going to have a crack at some “lagers” over summer (sorry Otto) and try out W34/70, Nottingham and whatever other yeasts may work ok at higher temps.

I think @Otto Von Blotto Kelsey is right with better crisper clean flavours with the cold temp protocol being followed @Tone boy TB...

But saying that... if you cannot maintain those cold temps... you still can get a pretty ok clean lager or pseudo lager at 18 and 20 with W34/70 and US05...  I think going higher than 20 and towards 25 and 28/30 the world might change... 

And then there is the pressure-ferment game that mimics the cooler temp but utilising elevated pressure to constrain the yeasts activity instead of cold temps doing that... so you can ferment warmer but under pressure for similar results.

Edited November 20, 2020 by Bearded Burbler

[Mirek Kania]

18 minutes ago, Bearded Burbler said:

Best to store in physiological NaCl rather than just leave in 'beer solution'?

I just leave my 3068 submerged under beer and keep at 2 deg C (well at least when the power is on... fires last year and storms this year we had some power outages)...

Maybe not best practice?

I am not any expert. What I have learned from couple of books at the University, for sure yeasts feel better in 0,9% NaCl solution ten 5% C2H5OH solution But in fact, I have never made lifability comperition between them.

I personalny would bloody prefer to spend a year submerged under beer, then salty water, eh If I only have a chance to get out of it alive.

Anyway, I use this metod of preserving my yeasts. It works fine for me.

P.s. Many of my colleagues here use the deep-freeze method. Thanks to this, yeasts has no problem to survive up to 3 years.

Edited November 20, 2020 by Mirek Kania

[Tricky Micky]

9 hours ago, Tone boy said:

following on from BB’s post (thanks BB) about a diacetyl rest for the ales, this is kinda related. Using w34/70 yeast at ambient (ale) temps seems like it could be a thing. Apparently it still ferments pretty clean at the higher end of its range. Here’s an interesting article on it...
https://brulosophy.com/2016/02/08/fermentation-temperature-pt-4-lager-yeast-saflager-3470-exbeeriment-results/

I like lager styles, but don’t have ability to control temp. I’ve done a couple in the garage over winter which turned out well, but now it’s warmer and I’m still thirsty! So naturally a pseudo lager is appealing to me. 
I’d be interested in your recipe and how it goes with the Nottingham. 
 

I think I’m going to have a crack at some “lagers” over summer (sorry Otto) and try out W34/70, Nottingham and whatever other yeasts may work ok at higher temps. If I stumble across a win I’ll be happy to share. Cheers TB.  

Hey TB, thanks for the info mate. I had seen that article at brulosophy and it is interesting.  I'm also keen to see what this latest brew I'm doing using Nott yeast at 15 degrees will end up like. Tried the 4th day sample and it's already very nice...so I think I can expect a nice beer. I've done 6 brews now, three with W34/70, two with Fermentis S-23 and the latest in the FV using the Nott yeast.

It may be just anecdotal but to my palate  the beers I've done using W34/70 a best by a country mile. The S23 yeast in my humble opinion is a dud. Using almost the same recipes in each brew the S23 slows down its process until it's almost stalling and imparts a really tart taste to the beer. The W34/70 on the other hand was really quick to get to its FG and the beer tasted fantastic and smelt great too.  One of the biggest difference I noticed between the brews using the different yeast was head retention, W34/70 was a ripper, large head which stayed in the glass to the last drop. The S23 brew barely produced any head to speak of.

 

The Nott yeast was only 5 points off FG on the 4th day so it's motoring along even at 15 degrees. 

And don't forget Kveik yeast for pseudo lagers  either. I haven't used it myself as yet but plan to. It sounds like a bit of a beast of a yeast.

https://shortfingerbrewing.com/blogs/news/kveik-lagers 

Here's my recipe for the Nott pseudo Aussie lager,

  

Edited November 20, 2020 by Mickep

[Pezzza]

4 minutes ago, Mickep said:

the beers I've done using W34/70 a best by a country mile

Yeeeehaaaa you've got my vote Mick!

Given that Wstephan have been going for a thousand years they must have got something right haha?!

[Tricky Micky]

4 minutes ago, Bearded Burbler said:

Yeeeehaaaa you've got my vote Mick!

Given that Wstephan have been going for a thousand years they must have got something right haha?!

 

A thousand years in the making. That seals the deal then. Makes sense that it should be the bomb. I'm a big fan I will definitely continue to use this as my go to yeast form my lagers. Thanks for the info BB- love your work 

[Mirek Kania]

31 minutes ago, Bearded Burbler said:

Given that Wstephan have been going for a thousand years they must have got something right haha?!

I would give a lot, to taste one that was brewed the way and with yeasts as they did that 1000 years ago.

[Pezzza]

11 minutes ago, Mickep said:

A thousand years in the making. That seals the deal then. Makes sense that it should be the bomb. I'm a big fan I will definitely continue to use this as my go to yeast form my lagers. Thanks for the info BB- love your work 

Haha yeah it is a good one the ol' W34/70 Mick... but I suspect there will be merit in trying some of the other festive strains too eventually...  maybe not S-23... if my Yeast Coach Greeny suggests otherwise... I think I will be following his advice hhahah : )

On 11/3/2020 at 10:02 AM, Greeny1525229549 said:

S-23 is on my banned/never to use again list. Did 3 or 4 batches and never got a good result with it. W34/70 never had a bad batch.

 

As @Otto Von Blotto Kelsey notes below the Pilsner Urquell also might be a beaut... to try when the time comes... I just have not quite got there yet as am still pretty much experimenting with Malted Grain Bill, Temps of Mash and Ferment, and Hoppage Strategies.... so much to do... 

Seeing Pilsener is named after Pilsen (Czech) where that style originated and what is embodied in Pilsener Urquell ... one would hope that this yeast too would be worth a crack... think OVB has been using it for a good while - does it behave pretty well @Otto Von BlottoKelsey?

Urquell is german for "original source"...  classic deutsch compound noun... Ur - is sort of "the beginning"... right at the very start... means more than just 'original' to me... and Quell... also sort of more than just source... so font of wisdom is ein Quell politischer Weisheit....  haha the complexities of language and translation hey.... haha but anyway... it is a yeast we prolly should try one day?!  But in the meantime W34/7- is quite helfpul and I think forgiving at higher non-ideal temps...  like up to 20degC.

On 11/17/2020 at 5:53 PM, Otto Von Blotto said:

There are differences between lager strains as well, having done essentially the same recipe with W34/70 and 2001 Urquell yeast, the two beers did taste different to each other.