Otto Von Blotto Posted July 7, 2018 Author Share Posted July 7, 2018 8 minutes ago, Gully85 said: I have used wyeast 2526. Kolcsh yeast. going to try yeast washing to reuse this yeast. At $13 a packet it can be very economical to reuse it It is. I've taken strains up to 15 reuses with my starter method. It's possible with yeast washing too I'd think. 7 minutes ago, elLachlano said: I was following the recipe - is that the only reason to keep temps up? If you're pitching dry yeast? The fact that it's bubbling already makes me think it wouldn't need it too. The reason for keeping temps up at the start is when you don't really pitch enough yeast, doesn't matter if it's liquid or dry. It just allows it to multiply faster. However if you are pitching a large amount like you would if using harvested yeast from the previous batch then there's no need to pitch high and leave it up there. I think you get a better beer from pitching at or slightly below fermentation temp when pitching adequate cells like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tja1980 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 Just put down a Pilsner "Capital Pils", OG is at 1.066, dark and nasty, smells great. Only a 3lt boil, so want pie floaters tonight >< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elLachlano Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Otto Von Blotto said: The reason for keeping temps up at the start is when you don't really pitch enough yeast, doesn't matter if it's liquid or dry. It just allows it to multiply faster. However if you are pitching a large amount like you would if using harvested yeast from the previous batch then there's no need to pitch high and leave it up there. I think you get a better beer from pitching at or slightly below fermentation temp when pitching adequate cells like that. Alright I've stripped it bare. Still sitting at 24C. Good to know the jacket can hold it up there all day. Overnight temp here is a constant 9C from now on so I reckon it'll drop to somewhere close to 15 by morning. Might even ice pack it and see where it gets to before bedtime. Was definitely an overpitch. I've not had a brew start ferment so quickly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted July 7, 2018 Author Share Posted July 7, 2018 IMO lagers should be pitched with a lot of yeast. It is an important part of their clean flavour; because they're pitched and fermented lower the yeast multiply slower, so pitching more yeast means less multiplication which gives the cleaner flavour, and ensures the lag time isn't too long*. The usual rate is about double that of ales; if you're talking in sachets then for a standard 23L one you'd pitch about 3 or 4 of the Coopers sachets. *I usually get lag times of 36+ hours with lager yeast, but it doesn't seem to cause any issues. Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elLachlano Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 1 minute ago, Otto Von Blotto said: IMO lagers should be pitched with a lot of yeast. It is an important part of their clean flavour; because they're pitched and fermented lower the yeast multiply slower, so pitching more yeast means less multiplication which gives the cleaner flavour, and ensures the lag time isn't too long*. The usual rate is about double that of ales; if you're talking in sachets then for a standard 23L one you'd pitch about 3 or 4 of the Coopers sachets. *I usually get lag times of 36+ hours with lager yeast, but it doesn't seem to cause any issues. Cheers Kelsey 3 lagers in this winter and #alwayslearning Thanks Kelsey. I've used the same yeast for all but I reckon this is the maximum viable cell pitch I've done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tja1980 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 43 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said: IMO lagers should be pitched with a lot of yeast. It is an important part of their clean flavour; because they're pitched and fermented lower the yeast multiply slower, so pitching more yeast means less multiplication which gives the cleaner flavour, and ensures the lag time isn't too long*. The usual rate is about double that of ales; if you're talking in sachets then for a standard 23L one you'd pitch about 3 or 4 of the Coopers sachets. *I usually get lag times of 36+ hours with lager yeast, but it doesn't seem to cause any issues. Cheers Kelsey Pitched mine with the two 86 cooper kit yeast and two W34/70, that's a lot of yeast. Tristan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tja1980 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 Hop Spider, just use a Bazooka mate on your kettle or Nylon Hop Bag? What do you use to strain out hops? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted July 7, 2018 Author Share Posted July 7, 2018 1 hour ago, tja1980 said: Pitched mine with the two 86 cooper kit yeast and two W34/70, that's a lot of yeast. Tristan Good man. You'll probably need it at that OG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tja1980 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 Hey Otto, 2nd time brewing this one, highest og beer I have brewed but has been a winner with mates ;D Tristan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elLachlano Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 Woke up and the PilsNoir was sitting @14C. Perfecto. Jacket back on. Hope the 8 or so hours warm bath didn't treat it too badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joolbag Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 19 hours ago, tja1980 said: Pitched mine with the two 86 cooper kit yeast and two W34/70, that's a lot of yeast. Tristan That is a lot.of yeast! W34/70 is not cheap either, $9 per sachet at my LHBS. I am planning to save money by stepping one packet up in starters. I assume 110bn cells per packet, first step up to just over 200bn, the final step to recommended pitching density, 400bn+, depending on recipe. At $7.95 per kilo for DME this is a much cheaper way. I can also yeast harvest from the cake for at least two more batches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted July 8, 2018 Author Share Posted July 8, 2018 Jools, if you're starting with that amount of cells theres no need to do a multi step starter, you can just make one big one, assuming you have a vessel large enough and a stir plate of course. When I do mine I'm usually starting with around 100bn cells, into a 3.4-3.6 litre starter that gets me close to 600bn, steal 150bn or so for next time and have more than enough left for the batch. The recommended inoculation rate is between 25 and 100 million cells per mL of wort, if you go too far under or over that, it doesn't do much good for the yeast. Too far over means it doesn't have to multiply much so you end up with more older cells and bugger all growth, too far under and it has to multiply too many times which could also produce less healthy cells. Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 Hiya Kelsey. 43 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said: ...When I do mine I'm usually starting with around 100bn cells, into a 3.4-3.6 litre starter that gets me close to 600bn, steal 150bn or so for next time and have more than enough left for the batch. Do you follow this regime & pitching rate with both ale & lager yeast strains? Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joolbag Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 No stir plate yet @Otto Von Blotto. Been waiting for digital homebrew for over 12 on the now. Giving up and will get the Kegland one when it is back in stock. So without stir plate the only way that I can build my starters up to required cell counts (intermittent shaking) is to step it up. Increasing volume doesn't help. It won't get to 400bn cells unless the volume is ridiculous. So step up seems like only option Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tja1980 Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 2 hours ago, joolbag said: That is a lot.of yeast! W34/70 is not cheap either, $9 per sachet at my LHBS. I am planning to save money by stepping one packet up in starters. I assume 110bn cells per packet, first step up to just over 200bn, the final step to recommended pitching density, 400bn+, depending on recipe. At $7.95 per kilo for DME this is a much cheaper way. I can also yeast harvest from the cake for at least two more batches I would of saved a w34/70 sample from my first batch, I agree the price is quite high, but this recipe is not exactly cheap but it had a good result for me previously , my motto in brewing is always try a recipe twice and see what worked what didn't where I made mistakes and what can I do to make it better, but I will take a sample from this one Tristan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tja1980 Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 Just on yeast sample saving and storage whats the best way long term, @Otto Von Blotto you mentioned stealing 150bn away from a 600bn how do you store that 600bn? fridge or ? Tristan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted July 8, 2018 Author Share Posted July 8, 2018 I don't store 600 billion, I take 150 odd and store that in the fridge, and pitch the other 450 odd into the batch. The details of my process are in a thread I posted recently on reusing yeast. Long term storage is best done on slants as far as I know. @Beerlust no, I pitch ales at about half the rate of lagers. The pitching rate into the starter itself is always in the range I quoted earlier, however. Fair enough Jools. It does make it harder to hit cell numbers in one hit without a stir plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tja1980 Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 9 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said: I don't store 600 billion, I take 150 odd and store that in the fridge, and pitch the other 450 odd into the batch. The details of my process are in a thread I posted recently on reusing yeast. Long term storage is best done on slants as far as I know. @Beerlust no, I pitch ales at about half the rate of lagers. The pitching rate into the starter itself is always in the range I quoted earlier, however. Fair enough Jools. It does make it harder to hit cell numbers in one hit without a stir plate. Oh cool, yeah will have a read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tja1980 Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 @Otto Von Blotto cheers good read. There is nothing worse then the last keg running dry its been a sad day, I had to buy beer today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted July 8, 2018 Author Share Posted July 8, 2018 No worries mate. It's a process I've been using for some time now. I hardly ever buy yeast as a result. When we move house I'll be getting another fermenter and fridge to hopefully prevent any more running out of home brew. Can't keep up with only one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porschemad911 Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 On 7/7/2018 at 5:17 PM, Gully85 said: I have used wyeast 2526. Kolcsh yeast. going to try yeast washing to reuse this yeast. At $13 a packet it can be very economical to reuse it That was the one liquid strain that I didn't reuse - just a little troublesome to work with. I found it very powdery, took forever to flocculate, and added a sharp tang to the beer until it did (at which point it was very nice). Hope you have better luck! I find strains tend to flocculate better with reuse, so maybe if I'd had some patience it would have come good after a few generations... John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sion Di 13 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Hi All, Just put down my first brew on Friday. Using my Coopers kit Lager can and the Heritage Lager recipe off the Coopers Site. 1 × Lager (1.7kg) 1 × Thomas Coopers Dry malt Extract (1.5kg) 1 × 12g Hallertau Hop Pellets 1 × 12g Tettnanger Hop Pellets 1 × 11.5g SafLager W-34/70 Dry Yeast 1 × Kit Yeast made a yeast starter on the Wednesday night with the W-34/70, pitched the Can yeast dry (I didn't see it on the recipe till the last minute) Hallertau & Tettnanger Hop tea 500ml @ 10 min. Pitched at 21c and dropped it down over the next 24hrs to 14c, been sitting at a consistent 14.2c for the last couple of days. I remember reading somewhere about bringing the temp back up to get rid of off flavours common in Lager brewing. The recipe dosn't call for it but I want to try to get the best result I can. I was then going to cold crash it for a couple of days. I know this is my first brew but want to try to get the best results I can. I'm using a brew fridge so temp control is no problem. Should I bring the temp up again after initial fermentation is complete for a couple of days and then drop it again or just leave it for two weeks and cold crash it before I bottle? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#granted+brew Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Gday Mate, Good luck with your brew I'm just a newbie but if your going to leave it 2 weeks in F.V before cold crash just up the temp to 18°C-19°C with a couple days left. Then cold crash for a week. Some raise the temp when fermentation is nearly completed. I think the 'D rest' will happen in the bottle anyway if your bottling. When temps are at or above the 18°C recommended for conditioning for 2 weeks. ? Good luck again, looks like a recipe I should try next. Cheers, Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted July 9, 2018 Author Share Posted July 9, 2018 The kit yeast in that Lager tin is an ale yeast. It won't do anything much at 14 degrees except have a nap unfortunately. I would let it go for a week then raise the temp to 18 or so and leave it up there for another week. It should have finished fermentation and cleaned up any diacetyl by then. After that drop it to 12, then ramp it down 2 degrees a day to 3-4 degrees and leave it at that temp for a week, then bottle. This ramp down kicks the yeast into cleaning mode and improves the beer, as Lager yeast will still work at that temperature. After it's carbonated store it as cold as you are able to, it will improve further over time. Unfortunately lagers take time to hit their best and there aren't really any shortcuts to it or ways to speed up the process, you just need patience with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Captain!! Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 2 hours ago, Sion Di 13 said: Hi All, Just put down my first brew on Friday. Using my Coopers kit Lager can and the Heritage Lager recipe off the Coopers Site. 1 × Lager (1.7kg) 1 × Thomas Coopers Dry malt Extract (1.5kg) 1 × 12g Hallertau Hop Pellets 1 × 12g Tettnanger Hop Pellets 1 × 11.5g SafLager W-34/70 Dry Yeast 1 × Kit Yeast made a yeast starter on the Wednesday night with the W-34/70, pitched the Can yeast dry (I didn't see it on the recipe till the last minute) Hallertau & Tettnanger Hop tea 500ml @ 10 min. Pitched at 21c and dropped it down over the next 24hrs to 14c, been sitting at a consistent 14.2c for the last couple of days. I remember reading somewhere about bringing the temp back up to get rid of off flavours common in Lager brewing. The recipe dosn't call for it but I want to try to get the best result I can. I was then going to cold crash it for a couple of days. I know this is my first brew but want to try to get the best results I can. I'm using a brew fridge so temp control is no problem. Should I bring the temp up again after initial fermentation is complete for a couple of days and then drop it again or just leave it for two weeks and cold crash it before I bottle? Thanks Also cold crash for at least 5 days a week is better. A couple of days won’t do much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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