Water quality - does it make a noticeable difference?

[Spursman]

Been wondering - I only do basic kit and enhancer and generally quite happy with results. However the water supply here on the Sunshine Coast can sometimes smell quite strongly of chlorine.

I am presuming that because we use around 20 litres or so per batch that the chlorine (and whatever the heck else is in the water) would have some adverse effects on the finished product. 

I've read about Camden tablets to eliminate chlorine but what about the rest of the water profile? Is there a simple way to get pure water from the tap?

I don't want to get an RO system or buy in spring/distilled water.

More importantly, is it worth worrying about?

 

 

 

[Classic Brewing Co]

26 minutes ago, Spursman said:

Been wondering - I only do basic kit and enhancer and generally quite happy with results. However the water supply here on the Sunshine Coast can sometimes smell quite strongly of chlorine.

I am presuming that because we use around 20 litres or so per batch that the chlorine (and whatever the heck else is in the water) would have some adverse effects on the finished product. 

I've read about Camden tablets to eliminate chlorine but what about the rest of the water profile? Is there a simple way to get pure water from the tap?

I don't want to get an RO system or buy in spring/distilled water.

More importantly, is it worth worrying about?

 

 

 

There are a lot of topics on water used for brewing, but I have never got into it.

I live in Adelaide & have a PuraTap which sorts out most of the chlorine etc but when I do AG brews, I fill to the top a clean sanitised FV with water & leave it uncovered overnight - it does make a difference.

Some of the more experienced AG brewers have the knowledge on water profiles so I am sure some of them will comment.

For the average extract brewer, it's probably not worth worrying about.

[Tricky Micky]

@Spursman, there's a couple of things I do to the water addition in extract brewing which seems to work for me. I will either do a pre boil or store the water in a container large pot overnight with the lid slightly ajar. Pre boil works for me, I've got a 20 liter SS pot which I'll fill and bring to the boil the the day before brewing....if you need more water then just add a smaller pot into the mix as well....I'll leave these in the fridge overnight with the lid just slightly ajar. On brew day before you mix ingredients bring the pots of water out from the fridge and let them heat up to desired temp.........If you want to go with the other method - simply pour cold water from the water tap into a container and store overnight in the fridge with the lid slightly open.... 

Others here may have a better understanding of what works and what doesn't, as I said this works for me..I'm in Melbourne (metro) so the water is not too bad to begin with....

I believe the two methods I've mentioned here will help with the chlorine smell at least....if you wish to get rid of some of the nasties there are also those RV / Caravan  potable hose and filter systems (Not RO) which aren't that expensive. I've got those as well and they seem to work fine too.

Edited December 27, 2022 by Mickep

[Oldbloke]

1 hour ago, Spursman said:

Been wondering - I only do basic kit and enhancer and generally quite happy with results. However the water supply here on the Sunshine Coast can sometimes smell quite strongly of chlorine.

I am presuming that because we use around 20 litres or so per batch that the chlorine (and whatever the heck else is in the water) would have some adverse effects on the finished product. 

I've read about Camden tablets to eliminate chlorine but what about the rest of the water profile? Is there a simple way to get pure water from the tap?

I don't want to get an RO system or buy in spring/distilled water.

More importantly, is it worth worrying about?

 

 

 

The chlorine is there to kill the nasties.   (Obviously)  It's in all public water supplies in small quantities.

As someone mentioned it will evaporate if left for a few hours. 

 

Charcoal filters are effective I believe. But do your homework on that one.

 

Edit: about 24 hrs to evaporate. 

https://waterdefense.org/water/contaminants/chlorine-evaporation/

Edited December 27, 2022 by Oldbloke

[Oldbloke]

Actually, if you read further down on that Web site it says.

"Like ascorbic acid, sodium/potassium metabisulfite is effective in dechlorinating water. "

 

https://www.kegland.com.au/sodium-metabisulphite-500g.html

[Aussiekraut]

2 hours ago, Spursman said:

Been wondering - I only do basic kit and enhancer and generally quite happy with results. However the water supply here on the Sunshine Coast can sometimes smell quite strongly of chlorine.

I am presuming that because we use around 20 litres or so per batch that the chlorine (and whatever the heck else is in the water) would have some adverse effects on the finished product. 

I've read about Camden tablets to eliminate chlorine but what about the rest of the water profile? Is there a simple way to get pure water from the tap?

I don't want to get an RO system or buy in spring/distilled water.

More importantly, is it worth worrying about?

Water quality is a big thing in brewing and many brewers take it quite seriously. Certain beers require a certain ph level in order to be true to the style and some of the differences between homemade clones of commercial beers and the originals come down to water chemistry. If water is too hard or too soft can have an impact on the beer made and the better the water, the better the beer.

I don't worry too much about the water chemistry. as we had pretty good water in the old place. I haven't sussed out what it is like here but I'll get there. I figure, if the water is good enough to drink, it's good enough to brew. I am happy with my beers the way they are and at the moment, I don't want to climb even further down the rabbit hole and get into water chemistry. The only thing I do is fill up the kettle the day before I brew, so the chlorine can evaporate off. Since I do all grain, it doesn't matter if something got into the water as any bacteria will have the living daylight boiled out of it anyway  

 

[Classic Brewing Co]

4 minutes ago, Aussiekraut said:

Water quality is a big thing in brewing and many brewers take it quite seriously. Certain beers require a certain ph level in order to be true to the style and some of the differences between homemade clones of commercial beers and the originals come down to water chemistry. If water is too hard or too soft can have an impact on the beer made and the better the water, the better the beer.

I don't worry too much about the water chemistry. as we had pretty good water in the old place. I haven't sussed out what it is like here but I'll get there. I figure, if the water is good enough to drink, it's good enough to brew. I am happy with my beers the way they are and at the moment, I don't want to climb even further down the rabbit hole and get into water chemistry. The only thing I do is fill up the kettle the day before I brew, so the chlorine can evaporate off. Since I do all grain, it doesn't matter if something got into the water as any bacteria will have the living daylight boiled out of it anyway  

 

I have to agree AK, there is enough to do with brewing/fermenting/kegging etc but for those who wish to get right into water profiles, that's OK.

Adelaide water is quite acceptable but as I said through the Pura Tap & storing a FV overnight with the lid off seems to work OK.

[Greenyinthewestofsydney]

As others have said the main thing is chlorine and chloramines. I'm in Sydney and the water supply is pretty good. Normally I can't smell the chlorine but 3 years ago with the bushfires it was really noticeable post that. After research I found the best way was as oldbloke said below. A campden tablet is sodium or potassium metabisulfite in tablet form. Don't waste your money and just buy the powder. 500gm will literally last you hundreds of brews. It can also be used as an additive post fermentation for oxidation. A quarter of a teaspoon is all I add and it takes care of it. 

57 minutes ago, Oldbloke said:

Actually, if you read further down on that Web site it says.

"Like ascorbic acid, sodium/potassium metabisulfite is effective in dechlorinating water. "

 

https://www.kegland.com.au/sodium-metabisulphite-500g.html

 

[Cheap Charlie]

I know you don't want to go down the RO or bottled water route, but may I suggest to buy 2x 10L waters and do a brew, then compare it to an identical brew done with tap water.

I'm in Brissy and tbh the water here is garbage, I have a RO system installed and it produces great beers. I have used filtered water for so long now I find the water from the tap undrinkable.

Another option would be to capture some rainwater and try the comparison with that.

IMO, water quality is definitely worth worrying about.

Edited December 28, 2022 by Cheap Charlie

[ozdevil]

look  to beat  soft and hard water   and getting rid of chlorine and chloromine   is to water test your water even with RO water

not knowing  your water  chemistry levels you cant fix it completely your only guessing


distilled water  is the blank slate 

RO water still has minerals in the finished prodruct of water

tap water has minerals in it , but aslong as you know the minerals in it, you can adjust your minerals for it either way

Camden tablets will not get rid of chlorine or chloromine it will just mask it


but generally if your looking at changing water its best to test your water or get a water report from ya waterboard




 

[Marty_G]

If you want to find your water profile have a play around on this.   https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/water-profiles  It has 100's of profiles.  Depending on where you live on the coast the keyword maybe different. Try phases like unity water.  I know there are profiles for Buderim and Noosa on it possibly more.  Also it depends on the storage facility you get your water from.   The profile will give you  calcium, magnesium, sodium, chloride,  sulphur,  alkalinity and pH.   It probably will not mean a whole lot to you but as mentioned in advanced all grain brewing the balance of those chemicals and the pH will impact the final taste that you are chasing. eg, hopiness and malt character.  

At kit and kilo level removing the chlorines is about as far as you need to go.   

 

I have gone right down the brewing rabbit hole and I adjust my water profile for pretty much every brew.  In all grain brewing there  are advanced calculators you use to put you water profile in verse the desired result you want and it will calculate the additions of compounds like gypsum, calcium chloride,  bi carb, salt and lactic acid you need to get to the water balance you need for the flavour profile you are chasing like very hop driven, bitter, malty or even just balanced.    Beer like a Pilsner will use a very different chemical profile to say an IPA.  

So where on the coast are you?  I am out Woombye way.  

 

Edited December 28, 2022 by Marty_G

[Tricky Micky]

Are there any water testing kits which are affordable and still reasonably accurate? To all the AG brewers here - how do you obtain your water profiles for your all grain home brewing?

Aside from Ozzie's suggestion - contacting the Water Company - which I've just done - and not heard back yet - Is there an easy affordable solution available?.....

[Otto Von Blotto]

I make my own distilled water and build profiles from there. The other advantage of it is removing the chlorine or chloramine from it. I do find that the tap water profile seems to work well with darker beers but the lighter ones like pale ales and lagers there's too much bicarbonate in it. 

I did a bit of an experimental brew a while ago, brewing my pilsner with tap water to compare the taste to the usual water it's brewed with, being distilled with minimal minerals added back. The tap water version tasted rather dull and lifeless compared to the usual. 

It probably doesn't make as much difference with kit beers though because the wort used for the kits would have been brewed with the water profile for the style already. 

[Tricky Micky]

Melbourne Water at a glance:

https://www.melbournewater.com.au/water-and-environment/water-management/water-quality/water-quality-testing

Parameter/ source	Cardinia	Greenvale	Silvan	Winneke	Tarago
pH (units)	7-7.6	7-7.8	6.7-8.0	6.9-7.5	7.1-7.6
Colour (Pt/Co)	0-5	2-7	4-14	0-2	0-5
Turbidity (NTU)	0.4-0.7	0.74-1.4	0.7-2.1	0.1-0.27	0.1-0.27
Electrical conductivity (uS/cm)	61-126	61-71	44-64	109-121	136-156
Iron	0.01-0.05	0.005-0.12	0.05-0.14	0.004-0.04	0.001-0.01
Manganese	0.001-0.005	0.001-0.008	0.004-0.02	0.001-0.005	0.001-0.04
Fluoride	0.4-0.94	0.1-0.87	0.1-0.9	0.22-0.96	0.1-0.95
Aluminium	0.013-0.028	0.034-0.085	0.04-0.13	0.02-0.061	0.012-0.055
Arsenic	<0.0003	<0.001	<0.001	<0.001	<0.001
Boron	0.1-0.2	0-0.02	0-0.06	0-0.04	0-0.01
Bromide	<0.05	<0.05	<0.05	<0.05	<0.05
Cadmium	<0.0001	<0.0001	<0.0001	<0.0001	<0.0001
Calcium	6.3-7.9	3.7-4.3	2.4-5.3	6.7-8.8	8.6-10.8
Chloride	5-7	8-11	7-8	16-19	24-26
Chromium	<0.001	<0.001	<0.001	<0.001	<0.001
Copper	0.01-0.02	<0.01	<0.01	<0.01	<0.01
Chloroacetic acid (ug/l)
Dichloroacetic acid (ug/l)	3	3-4	14-15	3-4	7-8
Trichloroacetic acid (ug/l)	3	2-4	10	2	6-7
Hardness	18-23	15-17	11-18	25-31	31-38
Lead	<0.001	<0.001	<0.001	<0.001	<0.001
Magnesium	0.65-0.89	1.29-1.53	1.02-1.63	1.84-2.16	2.29-2.75
Mercury	<0.0001	<0.0001	<0.0001	<0.0001	<0.0001
Nickel	<0.001	<0.001	<0.001	<0.001	<0.001
Nitrate	0-0.068	0.093-0.165	0.181-0.306	0.303-0.458	0.393-0.474
Potassium	0.38-0.45	0.54-0.66	0.53-0.67	1.09-1.38	1.83-2.13
Silica	2.9-4.0	4.3-6.8	5.9-8.0	4.4-8.3	11.1-14.9
Sodium	3.9-5.8	4.8-6	3.6-5.2	8.7-10.7	11.9-14.9
Sulphate	<1.5	1.5-1.8	1.5-1.8	10.8-12.9	2.1-2.7
Total alkalinity as CaCO3	19-24	12-14	10-15	11-13	13-32
Total organic carbon	1.0-1.5	1.3-1.4	1.3-1.8	1.0-1.8	1.9-2.2
Total phosphorus	0.005-0.015	0.005-0.013	0.005-0.01	<0.005-0.014	0.014-0.045
Total dissolved solids	34-70	34-41	24-35	60-67	75-86
Trihalomethanes	0.013-0.036	0.013-0.073	0.028-0.080	0.019-0.039	0.041-0.073
Zinc	0.001-0.002	0.002-0.005	0.003-0.006	<0.001	<0.0003-0.0005

Edited December 28, 2022 by Mickep

[Classic Brewing Co]

25 minutes ago, Mickep said:

Melbourne Water at a glance:

Mick make sure you study that thoroughly, there will be questions afterwards. 

 

N.B.  I am not making like of improving water for brewing.

[Tricky Micky]

39 minutes ago, Mickep said:

Chloroacetic acid (ug/l)

I'm not sure what the love hearts have to do with Chloroacetic acid either......

[Tricky Micky]

16 minutes ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

Mick make sure you study that thoroughly, there will be questions afterwards. 

 

Please don't. I'm struggling already with understanding the measurements for Chloroacetic acid (ug/l) 

Edited December 28, 2022 by Mickep

[Popo the Reprobate]

1 hour ago, Mickep said:

Are there any water testing kits which are affordable and still reasonably accurate?

I'm not sure it's affordable, but KegLand do offer a water testing service. Not affiliated in any way, nor have I used it. I did look at it once to see what was happening with my tank water but never went ahead.

https://www.kegland.com.au/water-testing-service.html

[Classic Brewing Co]

38 minutes ago, Mickep said:

Please don't. I'm struggling already with understanding the measurements for Chloroacetic acid (ug/l) 

For the moment my Pura Tap water is fine, I have got enough going on ATM - AG/Kegging & now working out the new Yeast Stirring Machine.

[Classic Brewing Co]

44 minutes ago, Mickep said:

I'm not sure what the love hearts have to do with Chloroacetic acid either......

[jennyss]

Thanks @Spursman,You got a very interesting discussion and information exchange going there!

I usually have another google or wikipedia window open while I'm looking at the Coopers Community. For example I had to google 'what is an RO system' and found out it is reverse osmosis.

[Tricky Micky]

Most likely an error in the translation from the copy and paste I'd done. The heart symbols actually represent < 3 in each column.

 

[Shamus O'Sean]

@Marty_G & @Mickep they are really good resources.  I am going to have to revise my standard profile, being in outer south east suburbs of Melbourne.  Probably get my water from Silvan or Cardinia.  Dropping Calcium from 12 to 6 ppm and Chloride from 12 to 8 ppm.  Thanks guys.

[iBooz2]

12 hours ago, Mickep said:

I'm not sure what the love hearts have to do with Chloroacetic acid either......

it's the base chemical used in Viagra, apparently. 

[iBooz2]

14 hours ago, Mickep said:

Are there any water testing kits which are affordable and still reasonably accurate? To all the AG brewers here - how do you obtain your water profiles for your all grain home brewing?

Aside from Ozzie's suggestion - contacting the Water Company - which I've just done - and not heard back yet - Is there an easy affordable solution available?.....

There are aquarium testing kits (which I have bought in the past) to get you close to the numbers, will see if I can find the link to the YouTube vids.

There is a mob in South Croydon VIC that do water testing,  drop off a 600 ml spring water bottle filled with your home water and then drop $275 to get the scientific results via email.  More accurate that a water mob general report as it will take into account what happens in all the pipes between say Silvan and your house.

Do you have tank water at your joint @Mickep ?

 

Edited December 29, 2022 by iBooz2