Kveik: what is the deal and why it is the "thing"

[RDT2]

4 hours ago, Hairy said:

I have used Voss once and wasn't a fan either. I found it way too estery but not in a nice way like the Belgian or hefe yeasts. 

I have some Kveik yeasts in the fridge but haven't really been tempted to use them. I might wait until late Spring and do it at ambient when I need to boost up some stock.

I used Kveik at 35degrees in a Neipa with Azacca and Simcoe , I think the orange esters of the yeast paired nicely with the combo of hops. One of my best beers my only complaint was it was a small batch. So if your a fan of Neipa I think it works well with that. 

[Norris!]

My experience is it does give a lot of orange esters but is clean besides those esters, at 35c.  The 1st time I used it I didn't like the esters compared to the same beer done months before with US05 but it wasn't a side by side but it grew on me, now I only really use it in brews that will benefit or compliment the esters, NEIPA, hazy, hopped up pale ale (depending on the ingredients and hops). I do use it at 35c and have never really tried it lower because if I didn't want the esters I would use US05 or something clean like that.

I am really interested in how well it does at a lower temp and the time it takes to ferment out.

Thanks for the experiments @Aussiekraut

[BlackSands]

On 4/15/2021 at 10:26 AM, Aussiekraut said:

I know @Marty 1525229005 and @BlackSands are staunch Kveikers. Maybe you guys can shed some light on this? How low can it ferment? I think it doesn't do much at all around 20C correct?

 

I have absolutely no issues with Kveik Voss at all.  All my beers (apart from one), have consistently tasted plenty clean enough (to me) and clear up just fine as evidenced by the numerous photos I've shared over the months.   All have been fermented in the mid 30's.   I bought a packet of MJ's M12 Voss many months ago and have been reusing the slurry ever since.  And.. . "shock/horror!" I even tried it with a red wine kit.  Fermented that out in a matter of days and I actually preferred that wine to the results produced by the supplied EC1118 Champagne yeast!

Maybe this is all just a personal thing... perhaps I'm just not so sensitive to esters etc as others are?  Dunno to be honest.  But I'm extremely happy with the brews that voss is producing for me.  I haven't done any side-by-side comparisons though - and frankly, I feel no need to as it's really not representative of 'real-world' experience anyway.  We drink a beer and take as we find it.  However I do understand the homebrewer obsession and preoccupation with seeking the unobtainable 'perfect' brew!  The biggest variable in brewing, by far is perception.  

Here's a selection of past Voss delights...  all of these, to my taste, were really nice beers:

Edited April 16, 2021 by BlackSands

[Marty_G]

I have now been using Voss for 12 months. It is super versatile, fermenting within a 20c range from ~22 -42c.  In the very low 20's it is a does a psuedo lager profile. The profile is clean and crisp.  Still pretty quick as well.   This is the last brew I did with Kveik and it was finished in about 48 hours.  I tasted it last night and it is brilliant.  The super pride is fruity and the finish is crisp and dry like a lager. This is a very good beer.   At the start of the year I turfed all my yeasts and started a fresh yeast bank and this was the brewed with 2nd generation Voss.   Need to add I also an a pressure fermenter and it was fermented at 15psi.  I did find I had some clarity issue with it to start but a good low cold crash,~1c, and adding both gelatine and biofine when it is at around 2c fixed that. 

[Tricky Micky]

15 hours ago, BlackSands said:

I have absolutely no issues with Kveik Voss at all.  All my beers (apart from one), have consistently tasted plenty clean enough (to me) and clear up just fine as evidenced by the numerous photos I've shared over the months.   All have been fermented in the mid 30's.   I bought a packet of MJ's M12 Voss many months ago and have been reusing the slurry ever since.  And.. . "shock/horror!" I even tried it with a red wine kit.  Fermented that out in a matter of days and I actually preferred that wine to the results produced by the supplied EC1118 Champagne yeast!

Maybe this is all just a personal thing... perhaps I'm just not so sensitive to esters etc as others are?  Dunno to be honest.  But I'm extremely happy with the brews that voss is producing for me.  I haven't done any side-by-side comparisons though - and frankly, I feel no need to as it's really not representative of 'real-world' experience anyway.  We drink a beer and take as we find it.  However I do understand the homebrewer obsession and preoccupation with seeking the unobtainable 'perfect' brew!  The biggest variable in brewing, by far is perception.  

Here's a selection of past Voss delights...  all of these, to my taste, were really nice beers:

Absolutely stunning photos of your various Beers BS.  The photos of the beers tell the story. Crystal clear beer! beautiful stuff. 

[ozdevil]

On 4/17/2021 at 7:30 AM, MartyG1525230263 said:

I have now been using Voss for 12 months. It is super versatile, fermenting within a 20c range from ~22 -42c.  In the very low 20's it is a does a psuedo lager profile. The profile is clean and crisp.  Still pretty quick as well.   This is the last brew I did with Kveik and it was finished in about 48 hours.  I tasted it last night and it is brilliant.  The super pride is fruity and the finish is crisp and dry like a lager. This is a very good beer.   At the start of the year I turfed all my yeasts and started a fresh yeast bank and this was the brewed with 2nd generation Voss.   Need to add I also an a pressure fermenter and it was fermented at 15psi.  I did find I had some clarity issue with it to start but a good low cold crash,~1c, and adding both gelatine and biofine when it is at around 2c fixed that. 

what application is that 

looks pretty easy and simple to use

[Marty_G]

@ozdevil that is BrewMate v1.26. It is no longer supported but it is available for download and you are right it is very easy to use.   

[Beers Gone Wild]

I’m struggling to get over 30c using electric blanket on max, average is 26c.

Will that mean it may just take longer, been going for about 5 days so far.

[Norris!]

8 hours ago, Beers Gone Wild said:

I’m struggling to get over 30c using electric blanket on max, average is 26c.

Will that mean it may just take longer, been going for about 5 days so far.

Yeah it will take longer but from what I have read from others it will be cleaner, less esters. Might check the gravity today and see if it changes in a day or two., it could be done.

[Beers Gone Wild]

Cheers @Norris! . Looks like she has a bit to go yet. It’s crazy having to get heat into this yeast, handy for summer time.

[RDT2]

On 5/8/2021 at 10:36 AM, Beers Gone Wild said:

I’m struggling to get over 30c using electric blanket on max, average is 26c.

Will that mean it may just take longer, been going for about 5 days so far.

If I just read this post on it’s own, you would think this is a sleep forum and you’ve been in bed for 5 days 

Edited May 10, 2021 by RDT2

[Marty_G]

It always amazes me how fast this stuff is. 

Made an Australian Lager today and as things are heating up a bit in SEQ I thought I would pitch some Voss and ferment at about 25c in my ferment chamber.  I was using Voss regularly for nearly a year but over the last 10 months have been using S04, US05, Notts and W34/70 for my brews and fermenting closer to their optimal temps and under pressure.  Anyway pitched it at 30c 6 hours ago wort is down to 25c and pressure is up to 15psi with the blow off going gang busters.   

Nice reminder of how quick this stuff is.  

[Tone boy]

2 hours ago, MartyG1525230263 said:

It always amazes me how fast this stuff is. 

Made an Australian Lager today and as things are heating up a bit in SEQ I thought I would pitch some Voss and ferment at about 25c in my ferment chamber.  I was using Voss regularly for nearly a year but over the last 10 months have been using S04, US05, Notts and W34/70 for my brews and fermenting closer to their optimal temps and under pressure.  Anyway pitched it at 30c 6 hours ago wort is down to 25c and pressure is up to 15psi with the blow off going gang busters.   

Nice reminder of how quick this stuff is.  

How does kveik go when doing a lager Marty? Is it pretty clean or does it throw a few esters?

[Marty_G]

4 minutes ago, Tone boy said:

How does kveik go when doing a lager Marty? Is it pretty clean or does it throw a few esters?

At the low end of the range so in the mid to low 20's clean as so 22-25c.  It does a good pseudo lager at that temp.  As this is an Aussie style lager there was no need to do the full lager process I would have done for a Czech Pilsner or similar. 

[kmar92]

@Tone boy pretty sure that Voss Kviek is actually a top fermenting ale yeast, so technically it is not a lager yeast, i.e. bottom fermenting yeast.

[Marty_G]

1 minute ago, kmar92 said:

@Tone boy pretty sure that Voss Kviek is actually a top fermenting ale yeast, so technically it is not a lager yeast, i.e. bottom fermenting yeast.

As a retired microbiologist I can tell you the top and bottom ferment is pretty much BS.   Most of the yeast will be in suspension.  

[Tone boy]

13 minutes ago, kmar92 said:

@Tone boy pretty sure that Voss Kviek is actually a top fermenting ale yeast, so technically it is not a lager yeast, i.e. bottom fermenting yeast.

Cheers Kmar. I do a few lagers using w34/70 at around 12 degrees and they turn out really nice. Very neutral yeast. 
I was aware that the various kveiks are ale yeasts but I have heard of people doing pseudo lagers with Voss at the lower temps (like Marty had done here).  Just wondering how they turn out ester wise really…

I think @BlackSands often uses kveik for his brews too but not sure he aims for any lager type styles - maybe more of a pale ale and ipa slurper BS ?

Do you brew with kveik much kmar?

Edited October 4, 2021 by Tone boy

[kmar92]

9 minutes ago, MartyG1525230263 said:

As a retired microbiologist I can tell you the top and bottom ferment is pretty much BS.   Most of the yeast will be in suspension.  

So @MartyG1525230263 lager would be better defined by the process rather than the yeast? My limited understanding was that ale yeast was a top fermenter v lager yeast being a bottom fermenter, but I have probably been misled?

[kmar92]

13 minutes ago, Tone boy said:

Cheers Kmar. I do a few lagers using w34/70 at around 12 degrees and they turn out really nice. Very neutral yeast. 
I was aware that the various kveiks are ale yeasts but I have heard of people doing pseudo lagers with Voss at the lower temps (like Marty had done here).  Just wondering how they turn out ester wise really…

I think @BlackSands often uses kveik for his brews too but not sure he aims for any lager type styles - maybe more of a pale ale and ipa slurper BS ?

Do you brew with kveik much kmar?

Yes @Tone boy I have done quite a few brews with kviek, it is a great yeast for summer use and will ferment out in an incredibly short time with quite neutral results. I have fermented with it up to 35° and I really have not noticed any esters at all with it, hence why I say very neutral. I think that Lallemand says that it exhibits very slight orange and citrus notes, never actually noticed that myself though.

Edited October 4, 2021 by kmar92

[Marty_G]

5 minutes ago, kmar92 said:

So @MartyG1525230263 lager would be better defined by the process rather than the yeast? My limited understanding was that ale yeast was a top fermenter v lager yeast being a bottom fermenter, but I have probably been misled?

Yes, lager is a process and a style.  The yeast used are tolerant to lower temps and as a result ferment slower and cleaner.  The beer is then stored at low temps where is age conditioned. That is the lagering process.  If you look at a clear fermenter like a fermzilla and watch ales and lagers ferment you will see loads of yeast in suspension.     However, beers that are called lagers particularly commercial ones are more a describer of the style not the process. If that makes sense.  So when I said I was making an Aussie Lager it was more to with the style descriptors.  

[Marty_G]

11 minutes ago, kmar92 said:

I have fermented with it up to 35°

I have used it as high as 42c.  It was under pressure and finished in about 36 hours.  I too think it was pretty neutral.  One down side at those higher temps is I found it hard to clarify. 

[BlackSands]

On 10/4/2021 at 11:04 PM, Tone boy said:

I think @BlackSands often uses kveik for his brews too but not sure he aims for any lager type styles - maybe more of a pale ale and ipa slurper BS ?

I've been using Voss exclusively for around a year now.  Suits the style of beers I usually brew - i.e. PA's, English styles etc.  It also suits my impatience!   Brew day to bottle in a week including a short cold-crash! 

I don't experience the poor clarity issues that some report, and in fact quite the opposite.  One issue I DO have with voss from time to time though is poor bottle carbonation.  Despite priming at a level higher than usual,  allowing for the higher fermentation temperatures some batches just refuse to fizz up fully.  I've had my last batch, bottled sitting in my fermentation fridge set to 25ºC in the hope of encouraging them to carb up.   After 10 days I tested one of my 'reference' PETs which felt reasonably firm but when poured the beer looked completely flat - not a single bubble of CO2 to be seen.  I deliberately shortened the CC to just one day thinking a little more yeast in the bottles might help. It appears not.     I think they will eventually reach full carbonation but with some batches it's just taking a VERY long time.

And no, I haven't tried brewing a psuedo-lager using kveik at 'cooler' temps.  

[Journeyman]

I ahve my first Kveik brew in the FV. Lallemand version. It's in a cupboard with an electric blanket (on 1) loosely wrapped around the FV being run by the controller.

Pitched at 27° (only because I was also adding dry enzyme and don't know the temp limits of it so wanted to give it a chance to get to work) with the controller set yo 32° (Lallemand say 30° give 3 - 4 days and 35 gives 2 - 3 days so I figured drive it towards the 3 days)

I think I missed the krausen - there was maybe 1cm foam after a couple of hours and next days back to scattered islands across the surface. Smells great though...  

It's very cloudy! I mean there's Coopers Lager, LDME and sugar in there and it looks like a fruity neipa.

So today was day 3. The OG sample has been sitting in the cupboard above the brew. There's a shelf a couple of feet above the top of the FV but 1. heat rises and 2. the door doesn't seal to the shelf, so there's a gap.

Here's my puzzle... I checked the OG sample and it read about 1.022 - hard to tell as there is bubbles and froth on top but I wasn't really after a dead-on measure. Given what everyone raves about, here and elsewhere, that seemed high so I took a fresh sample and it reads at 1.010!

Dafuq?

Why would the FV have gone further down the ferment than the sample? Temps should be at least close to each other - if anything I'd expect the sample to be warmer most of the time as there IS a slight gap at the bottom of the door so cooler air would be coming in around the FV.

The wort was very well mixed, expected OG was 1.059 and it read 1.060. FG is supposed to reach 1.006 & I would expect with the enzyme to go at least a couple of points down from that.

Edited December 28, 2021 by Journeyman

[loafing_about]

8 hours ago, Journeyman said:

snip...

Why would the FV have gone further down the ferment than the sample? Temps should be at least close to each other - if anything I'd expect the sample to be warmer most of the time as there IS a slight gap at the bottom of the door so cooler air would be coming in around the FV.

The wort was very well mixed, expected OG was 1.059 and it read 1.060. FG is supposed to reach 1.006 & I would expect with the enzyme to go at least a couple of points down from that.

I have had this happen and I think the yeast cells haven't fully mixed through the brew before being drawn off through the tap for the sample - I now purge a little through the tap before drawing the sample and it seems to more reliably match the FV SG.

[Journeyman]

9 hours ago, loafing_about said:

I have had this happen and I think the yeast cells haven't fully mixed through the brew before being drawn off through the tap for the sample - I now purge a little through the tap before drawing the sample and it seems to more reliably match the FV SG.

I don't know if that applies here. I take my OG's before I put the lid on using a sanitised cup, so it's coming from the very well- mixed bulk of the wort. I never liked the idea of running wort through the tap then letting it sit for a week, possibly getting contaminated from the outside. Then you run your beer through the tap and maybe contaminate the keg.

It's been beaten to a froth several times - each time I add water, after the yeast, after the enzyme and then usually another before I put the lid on - mix it, take sample, lid on.

My taps are virgin until I take the FG and with the OG sitting there beside the FV, that's usually just the one draw because normally that FG sample matches what the OG sample is saying.