It's Kegging Time 2019

[Pezzza]

2 minutes ago, iBooz2 said:

Seller of said regulator reused to take it back or offer any warranty claim whatsoever

Great advice thank you Boozer - but that sales agent should be publicly flogged.... and I would suggest is clearly in contravention of Australian Consumer Law.

[Red devil 44]

20 hours ago, Bearded Burbler said:

 

@Red devil 44 Red - any ideas here mate?

If the keg has been purged properly there wouldn’t be any air in the lines BB.

If there was a split in the CO2 line you would certainly hear it, and the soapy water test would prove that. I haven’t looked through the whole thread but I would be getting those beer lines horizontally above the keg, Cable tie them around the top of the keg, seems like a carbonation issue to me, either not enough or it’s over pressurised. My gut feeling is it’s over pressurised? 

[Pezzza]

7 minutes ago, Red devil 44 said:

If there was a split in the CO2 line you would certainly hear it, and the soapy water test would prove that. I haven’t looked through the whole thread but I would be getting those beer lines horizontally above the keg, Cable tie them around the top of the keg, seems like a carbonation issue to me, either not enough or it’s over pressurised. My gut feeling is it’s over pressurised? 

@Red devil 44 Red the later discussion is more around possibility of turbulence in flow with some sort of blockage at some stage through the - offtake tube - liquid post - liquid connect - line - through to the Pluto Gun....

I think my earlier suggestion re split/air entry - was not on the money - as you say - you would hear the gas - and it liquid - as @iBooz2 Boozer noted we'd be losing fluid...

I reckon there is more likely something that is causing turbulence/cavitation somehow in the Line?

I have suggested - if possible - to try to replicate the whole liquid line and see if that helps...

[iBooz2]

6 minutes ago, Red devil 44 said:

If the keg has been purged properly there wouldn’t be any air in the lines BB.

If there was a split in the CO2 line you would certainly hear it, and the soapy water test would prove that. I haven’t looked through the whole thread but I would be getting those beer lines horizontally above the keg, Cable tie them around the top of the keg, seems like a carbonation issue to me, either not enough or it’s over pressurised. My gut feeling is it’s over pressurised? 

Just looked at the pic again,  Is that beer connector pushed onto the post properly/fully?  Looks as if its sitting up a bit to me.

My two kegs have their own exactly 2 metre in length 4 mm ID beer lines and they just drop down to bottom of fridge and back up again to where the Pluto guns sit on the shelf above the kegs.  Never had to coil or keep them up high around the keg and never a problem.  I run mine at about 8-9 psi.

If @Smash keg IS over carbed then disconnecting completely from the gas for a few days and burping every day would improve the beer pour foam wise as gas would slowly come back out of the beer and self pressurize the keg i.e. a piddly pour should slowly get faster and less foam should it not?

Cheers - AL

[Red devil 44]

3 minutes ago, Bearded Burbler said:

@Red devil 44 Red the later discussion is more around possibility of turbulence in flow with some sort of blockage at some stage through the - offtake tube - liquid post - liquid connect - line - through to the Pluto Gun....

I think my earlier suggestion re split/air entry - was not on the money - as you say - you would hear the gas - and it liquid - as @iBooz2 Boozer noted we'd be losing fluid...

I reckon there is more likely something that is causing turbulence/cavitation somehow in the Line?

I have suggested - if possible - to try to replicate the whole liquid line and see if that helps...

At a guess I would say there is some crap in or around the liquid post.

Is it a hoppy beer, not sure what sort it is ?

I had that blockage a while back with the dip tube and that was a hoppy beer, although when I fermented I used a hop sock but somehow some hop matter made its way into my beer during kegging.

Tricky one this one

[Red devil 44]

2 minutes ago, iBooz2 said:

Just looked at the pic again,  Is that beer connector pushed onto the post properly/fully?  Looks as if its sitting up a bit to me.

My two kegs have their own exactly 2 metre in length 4 mm ID beer lines and they just drop down to bottom of fridge and back up again to where the Pluto guns sit on the shelf above the kegs.  Never had to coil or keep them up high around the keg and never a problem.  I run mine at about 8-9 psi.

If @Smash keg IS over carbed then disconnecting completely from the gas for a few days and burping every day would improve the beer pour foam wise as gas would slowly come back out of the beer and self pressurize the keg i.e. a piddly pour should slowly get faster and less foam should it not?

Cheers - AL

Yeah you are right the post does look like it’s not home all the way

[Pezzza]

11 minutes ago, iBooz2 said:

My two kegs have their own exactly 2 metre in length 4 mm ID beer lines

Yeah pretty sure I have 5mm ID Valpar lines and CPB suggested min of 3.5m.... never had a problem unless the keg is blowing or I have gas way up...

I would have thought with the 'friction loss' in the line - that a line that is longer than optimal is not a problem - but too short a line is a problem....  but am sure there are some more out there with expertise than I on this....

[Beerlust]

A few guys have suggested your keg could be overcarbonated. That is certainly possible maybe even probable.

If so, try this @Smash...

Disconnect the gas-in line into your keg. Using the pressure relief valve on the keg, release all the pressure in the keg headspace until there is no hissing, then pour a beer or two fairly quickly (with the gas-in line still disconnected from your CO2 tank) to see if this flushes the bubbling out of the line. In theory you should be able to pour a beer with more liquid than bubble by the second glass that doesn't have a giant head. It should pour a lot slower too.

If the beer pours OK in this instance, you've got an over-carbed keg. To remedy that, don't re-attach the gas-in line at all, & before you pour each beer, release the pressure in the headspace as described above, then pour. Continue to do this on each pour until the beer struggles to pour &/or looks like the overcarbonation has been resolved, then re-attach your gas-in line from the CO2 tank. That's if you still have any beer left in the keg by then. 

This is exactly what happened to me with the first ever beer I kegged.

If this doesn't resolve the issue, then I'd suggest it's something other than overcarbonation.

Best of luck sorting it out,

Lusty.

[Otto Von Blotto]

I've done that with over carbonated kegs as well, but I don't disconnect the gas because I find after burping them that they don't really pour at all, so I give them a quick hit of gas just to get it moving. Easy with a manifold however.

[Beerlust]

13 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

I've done that with over carbonated kegs as well, but I don't disconnect the gas because I find after burping them that they don't really pour at all, so I give them a quick hit of gas just to get it moving. Easy with a manifold however.

I'm hearin' ya Kelsey. It does depend on the severity of the overcarbonation as to how long you have to repeat the process I outlined.

The key point is you don't want to introduce more gas pressure, when you're trying to release/reduce it. 

My psychic abilities do only extend so far. 

Cheers,

Lusty.

Edited June 3, 2020 by Beerlust

[Journeyman]

6 hours ago, Ben 10 said:

What is that?

One of these. Has an airstone at bottom of the line so it carbs from the bottom of the keg - just the equivalent of attaching gas line to beer out post I think.

[Otto Von Blotto]

2 hours ago, Beerlust said:

I'm hearin' ya Kelsey. It does depend on the severity of the overcarbonation as to how long you have to repeat the process I outlined.

The key point is you don't want to introduce more gas pressure, when you're trying to release/reduce it. 

My psychic abilities do only extend so far. 

Cheers,

Lusty.

Yeah that's why I only give it a quick hit. It still dribbles out of the tap so just enough to push it out. Usually looks like a postmix coming out but certainly prevents the foaming while it's de-carbonating.

[Smash]

16 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

@Smash Can you remove the gas line completely and burp the keg a couple of times then do a test pour?  It will piddle out I know but does it piddle out still foamy?

Just thinking out loud here with things that I had tried.

Cheers - AL

I'll try this tonight. Thanks mate

16 hours ago, Titan said:

Not sure how your measuring line length but this looks a lot more than 2.5 to 3m.

Chopped up over the time I've had it, so it definetely was a guess!

15 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

Just looked at the pic again,  Is that beer connector pushed onto the post properly/fully?  Looks as if its sitting up a bit to me.

My two kegs have their own exactly 2 metre in length 4 mm ID beer lines and they just drop down to bottom of fridge and back up again to where the Pluto guns sit on the shelf above the kegs.  Never had to coil or keep them up high around the keg and never a problem.  I run mine at about 8-9 psi.

If @Smash keg IS over carbed then disconnecting completely from the gas for a few days and burping every day would improve the beer pour foam wise as gas would slowly come back out of the beer and self pressurize the keg i.e. a piddly pour should slowly get faster and less foam should it not?

Cheers - AL

I thought so as well until I almost put a hole in the bottom of the fridge trying to push it on further the other day! I'll investigate more tonight

15 hours ago, Red devil 44 said:

At a guess I would say there is some crap in or around the liquid post.

Is it a hoppy beer, not sure what sort it is ?

I had that blockage a while back with the dip tube and that was a hoppy beer, although when I fermented I used a hop sock but somehow some hop matter made its way into my beer during kegging.

Tricky one this one

It isn't an NEIPA or anything, but it was dry hopped in a hop sock, which I would assume some matter would make its way into the keg. 

14 hours ago, Beerlust said:

A few guys have suggested your keg could be overcarbonated. That is certainly possible maybe even probable.

If so, try this @Smash...

Disconnect the gas-in line into your keg. Using the pressure relief valve on the keg, release all the pressure in the keg headspace until there is no hissing, then pour a beer or two fairly quickly (with the gas-in line still disconnected from your CO2 tank) to see if this flushes the bubbling out of the line. In theory you should be able to pour a beer with more liquid than bubble by the second glass that doesn't have a giant head. It should pour a lot slower too.

If the beer pours OK in this instance, you've got an over-carbed keg. To remedy that, don't re-attach the gas-in line at all, & before you pour each beer, release the pressure in the headspace as described above, then pour. Continue to do this on each pour until the beer struggles to pour &/or looks like the overcarbonation has been resolved, then re-attach your gas-in line from the CO2 tank. That's if you still have any beer left in the keg by then. 

This is exactly what happened to me with the first ever beer I kegged.

If this doesn't resolve the issue, then I'd suggest it's something other than overcarbonation.

Best of luck sorting it out,

Lusty.

Could very well be! I've never got the carbonation right so I'll give this a go tonight and see what happens. 

Thanks for all the help guys!

[Otto Von Blotto]

Kegged the falconer's flight pale ale earlier today, been in the kegerator on about 45psi since. I'll turn it off tomorrow morning when I leave for work, then put it on serving pressure later on my break. It'll only have about 19 hours on the high pressure but better a little under carbonated than over. 

Also refilled the soda water as it was almost empty, and by the time I pour a beer tomorrow night it'll be nice and cold so won't cause the beer to foam everywhere. 

[Norris!]

39 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

Kegged the falconer's flight pale ale earlier today, been in the kegerator on about 45psi since. I'll turn it off tomorrow morning when I leave for work, then put it on serving pressure later on my break. It'll only have about 19 hours on the high pressure but better a little under carbonated than over. 

Also refilled the soda water as it was almost empty, and by the time I pour a beer tomorrow night it'll be nice and cold so won't cause the beer to foam everywhere. 

I have been doing 50psi for 18 hours and the carbonation has been good for me, I would say 45psi would probably hit your preferred levels also.

[Otto Von Blotto]

13 minutes ago, Norris! said:

I have been doing 50psi for 18 hours and the carbonation has been good for me, I would say 45psi would probably hit your preferred levels also.

Yeah I'm just doing what I've always done. If it's not fully done tomorrow night it'll still be good enough to drink it, and it'll finish off on serving pressure over the next day or two anyway. 

[Smash]

Tried a few more things tonight. Completely burped the keg and tried a pour. The beer in this picture probably took 45 seconds and had to hook the gas back up as it wasn't flowing at all. Keg lines don't look good with all the air in them, that photo was taken directly after the pour.

[Pezzza]

17 minutes ago, Smash said:

Tried a few more things tonight. Completely burped the keg and tried a pour. The beer in this picture probably took 45 seconds and had to hook the gas back up as it wasn't flowing at all. Keg lines don't look good with all the air in them, that photo was taken directly after the pour.

Interesting - my recent keg - after being gassed up - will pour with valpar lines full - and just lose bubbles and pressure if I turn the gas off/disconnect.  But if there is fluid in the keg - well the line usually will have liquid in them... even after the gas being disconnected.  There must be something causing cavitation in the line to introduce gas like that... unless the keg has finally run out of brew?

If the Keg still has beer in it - While the keg is not all not highly gassed - maybe the opportunity - to take the liquid post out completely out of the keg... and examine... and maybe while it is out of the keg - hook up to Gas line and blast that out (again?)

Have you tried replacing the Liq Disconnect-line-pouring device (pluto gun/picnic tap) ?

[Journeyman]

Have you looked inside the disconnect? A comment earlier about it sitting high made me wonder if it might have something preventing it sitting tight on the post. 

[iBooz2]

@Smash OK now leave it alone with gas disconnected for at least 24 hours.  "Removing or eliminating one variable at a time solves the crime".

So after 24 hours have passed, again do another test pour just like your last one with the gas disconnected and compare it.

Ask yourself - did it piddle out much, much more or was perceived as a lot faster, say took less than 30 seconds to fill your glass unlike last time 45?  Does it have a little bit or much more foam than your last experimental pour?

If the answers are yes then your keg was over carbed in the first instance and you need to deal with the solutions to that humbug.

If the answers are no then you need to investigate the turbulence in the beer dip tube, line, post or connections.  If you arrive here then I suspect something in or around your beer out post connection so with gas all gone anyway, take it out and clean etc. that is if keg is full and you want to take that risk or you can wait until keg blows then do the forensic stuff.

Cheers - AL

[Beerlust]

7 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

Kegged the falconer's flight pale ale earlier today,...

For a lazy arse hop blender like yourself , Falconer's Flight could well be your next best friend for your pale ale mate! LOL I really rate it. 

For those unaware, Falconer's Flight hops are a blended hop mix of 5-7 of the well known & very popular North West American grown hops used predominantly in American Pale Ales & IPA's.

Quote

Developed by Hopunion LLC in 2010, Falconer's Flight hop pellets are an exclusive proprietary hop blend created to honour and support the legacy of Northwest brewing legend, Glen Hay Falconer. Proceeds from each Falconer's Flight purchase is contributed to the Glen Hay Falconer Foundation. These hop pellets are an excellent complement to many IPA and Pale Ale-oriented hop varieties.

Aroma - Specific aroma descriptors include distinct tropical, floral, lemon and grapefruit characteristics.

I've used Falconer's Flight hops numerous times & they never fail to deliver in a good American styled Pale Ale or IPA. What makes the blend particularly good is that the listed co-humulone level of it allows it to be used in all parts of the boil & dry hopping (long bittering, flavour, & aroma) without creating any harsh tones.

If you are struggling trying to make a good flavoured & aroma'd American Pale Ale or IPA, this hop blend is your saviour. A percentage of the purchase of the hops goes to a worthwhile cause, so I try to make sure I buy a few packs each year in support of that. From the articles I've read about Glen Hay Falconer, he was very well respected in the craft brewing community in the USA & unfortunately was involved in a freak accident that ended his life prematurely. Quite sad actually.

If you haven't tried them before & like these styles of beer, do yourself a favour & try them out. You won't be disappointed.

Cheers,

Lusty.

[Otto Von Blotto]

What's this lazy arse crap?

The sample taste from the fermenter was nice, a bit green and bitterness was strong but I'm sure a week in the keg will sort it out. They usually smooth out. 

[Beerlust]

10 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

"Removing or eliminating one variable at a time solves the crime".

+1

[Smash]

15 hours ago, Bearded Burbler said:

Interesting - my recent keg - after being gassed up - will pour with valpar lines full - and just lose bubbles and pressure if I turn the gas off/disconnect.  But if there is fluid in the keg - well the line usually will have liquid in them... even after the gas being disconnected.  There must be something causing cavitation in the line to introduce gas like that... unless the keg has finally run out of brew?

If the Keg still has beer in it - While the keg is not all not highly gassed - maybe the opportunity - to take the liquid post out completely out of the keg... and examine... and maybe while it is out of the keg - hook up to Gas line and blast that out (again?)

Have you tried replacing the Liq Disconnect-line-pouring device (pluto gun/picnic tap) ?

Good idea, I'll hopefully have time to take the post apart this weekend. I haven't tried another disconnect & line yet, but will investigate the post first

15 hours ago, Journeyman said:

Have you looked inside the disconnect? A comment earlier about it sitting high made me wonder if it might have something preventing it sitting tight on the post. 

I did this the other day. Nothing unusual inside, few bits of dirt or something. 99% sure it's tight on the post

12 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

@Smash OK now leave it alone with gas disconnected for at least 24 hours.  "Removing or eliminating one variable at a time solves the crime".

So after 24 hours have passed, again do another test pour just like your last one with the gas disconnected and compare it.

Ask yourself - did it piddle out much, much more or was perceived as a lot faster, say took less than 30 seconds to fill your glass unlike last time 45?  Does it have a little bit or much more foam than your last experimental pour?

If the answers are yes then your keg was over carbed in the first instance and you need to deal with the solutions to that humbug.

If the answers are no then you need to investigate the turbulence in the beer dip tube, line, post or connections.  If you arrive here then I suspect something in or around your beer out post connection so with gas all gone anyway, take it out and clean etc. that is if keg is full and you want to take that risk or you can wait until keg blows then do the forensic stuff.

Cheers - AL

I'll give this a go this weekend. I suspect it is something to do with the keg post/dip tube. Hopefully it's an easy fix!

Thanks for the help again guys

[Smash]

Righteo, took the beer out post apart and soaked the spring, pin and post in sanitizer, then rebuilt. Recoiled the line so it sits on top of the keg (turns out I have over 5m, would this matter? I understand I'd have to carbonate it more for it to be carbonated at the tap), then poured a beer and this was the result. Still a touch flat, but it has been decarbed for the past few days, so I'll wait to see what happens when fully carbed. Hopefully stays this way!