Beerlust Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 .....now all you need is a keg set-up Kelsey! Like Chad said to me a while back, you really won't look back once you start kegging! He was right. (not that I ever doubted him though! ) 20mins (tops) to clean/sanitise the keg & beer lines then rinse. 5mins to transfer from FV to keg. 1 min to burp the keg (if that). If you choose to fast carb it, you can be pouring & drinking it within a few hours of filling the keg. I love it. Kegging gave me back a LOT of personal time. Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted July 29, 2015 Author Share Posted July 29, 2015 Absolutely mate, and I don't doubt that either. The only reason I haven't already is because there is literally no room here to put another fridge/kegerator whatever, in order to do it. It would have to sit out in the back yard somewhere. So unfortunately for the time being I have to remain with bottles, but that is still much better than buying beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porschemad911 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 So unfortunately for the time being I have to remain with bottles' date=' but that is still much better than buying beer. [img']wink[/img] That's alright, I reckon both bottling and kegging have their pluses and minuses. You can enjoy the pluses and put up with the minuses of bottling for now, then when you move to kegging I'm sure you'll have a new set of pluses and minuses to appreciate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted July 29, 2015 Author Share Posted July 29, 2015 That is true too. Even though bottling is a hassle, especially with stubbies, it still beats paying through the nose for my favourite styles of beer when I can just brew them at home for $7-$8 a carton. The only minus I can really see with kegs is an extra fridge (power consumption), and waiting longer for the yeast to drop out completely. Otherwise, it's all positives that I can see. Less cleaning for one, simply grab a glass and pour a beer, if I had a keezer big enough I could have a number of kegs going at once for variety. I definitely look forward to the day but yeah, space is at a premium here at the moment so until something frees up I'll be on bottling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 ...space is at a premium here at the moment so until something frees up I'll be on bottling. Sounds like it's time for a garage sale! Cheers' date=' Lusty.[/size'] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted July 29, 2015 Author Share Posted July 29, 2015 You're probably right, but it's not my stuff to sell I'd actually like to put a kegerator up on the back deck - it'd be the perfect place for it to be honest. Just need to get rid of Dad's bloody computer shit first... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 You're probably right' date=' but it's not my stuff to sell [img']lol[/img] Ahhh, sell it anyway! If it's got a heap of dust on it, they're probably not using it anyway, so won't miss it! On a more serious note, when I did switch to kegging, I had built up a good stockpile of bottled beer, & didn't brew for a period. It helped make additional funds available over the necessary weeks there to purchase everything I needed. Good luck with the garage sale! Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted July 29, 2015 Author Share Posted July 29, 2015 That's probably true. There was a cleanout of half the garage last year or something and there still wasn't room for a keg fridge. I like the back deck idea the best though, would be nothing better than having a couple of mates around, sitting around the table and the beers on tap a few steps away. Might just pitch that idea soon... could be a good birthday or Xmas gift - I'll pay for it all of course, but the gift will be being allowed it up on the deck. Funds are the one thing that aren't a problem right now, so I'll basically be able to go and get everything I need at once, if I get the green light anyway... At this point I'm thinking either a two or three tap kegerator from Craftbrewer or something rather than building one - that could be a project later though when I get a proper bar happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted July 30, 2015 Author Share Posted July 30, 2015 Well, looks like the kegerator on the back deck is a goer! Won't be straight away but I intend to have it all set up and going by the end of the year at least. Craftbrewer don't have any 3 tap fonts in stock ATM either, which is what I want for flexibility, though I could source one elsewhere of course. Dad agreed to it and also with my reasoning - mainly being sick to death of the faffing about of bottling, but also the enormous amount of wasted water due to all the cleaning required. And that there's literally nowhere else to put a keg fridge here. I'm using about 3 litres of water for every bottle through the process of initial rinse after pouring and then the 6 rinses after soaking in Napisan. Then there's the other water in the tub that contains the napisan that just goes down the drain afterwards. I've started tipping the rinsings into a bucket and pouring it on the lawn, but I would prefer not to be using all this water. Obviously this would still occur with kegs as I will have surplus bottles each batch, but it would also be far less often. So yeah, once we get the back deck rearranged to fit the kegerator, I can get the ball rolling and finally have draught beer at home. Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted August 2, 2015 Author Share Posted August 2, 2015 I had a glass of this first 'proper' batch earlier, and I was a little disappointed to be honest. The noticeable Saaz aroma that was evident in the FG samples had gone, and the beer was quite fruity which surprised me - it was more reminiscent of a pale ale than a Bo Pils, and I found it slightly sweet although not to the same degree as the previous batch. It was also full of f-ing chill haze , something which I suspect is due to the mountain of hops used in it compared to the other batch. Will up the dosage of PVPP on the current batch in the FV and see if that helps. Overall the beer was enjoyable, nothing inherently wrong with it, but just not what I was expecting flavour wise. I've got some Budvar in the fridge and the hop aroma from that is basically what I was getting from the FG samples of this beer. It has only been in the bottle for 2 weeks though, so I imagine it will improve in time. May look at moving the 20 minute Saaz addition to 5 minutes or even flameout and then adjusting the other additions to keep the IBUs where they should be, and perhaps drop the Munich II from the grist and go 100% pils malt with a touch of black patent for colour. This is also the last batch that will be fully bottled, as I'll be going to CB to pick up some kegs this week and all batches from now on including the one currently in FV will be kegged + a few bottles for the leftover beer. Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headmaster Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Maybe more Saaz required Kelsey. I was very impressed with the Pilsner Urquell recipe I used when I made an extract batch of it, the one that Phil has posted in the past. I have an all grain version lagering right now, so will be interesting to compare with the extract version. In that recipe for 18.9 litres, it called for 227g Carahell, 57g German Dark Munich, 4.3kg pilsner malt 104g 3% Saaz at 60mins, 28g Saaz 15mins, 28g Saaz 3 mins and 14g Dry hop. Total 174g Saaz. If you upped to 23L it would need another 20%, so over 200g all up. That said it calls for whole hops, so compared to pellets you might use 10% less by weight. Regardless I think this is more than your recipe called for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted August 3, 2015 Author Share Posted August 3, 2015 Yeah, you may well be right there. I simply created the hop schedule to give around 40IBUs and based it off the Urquell schedule times - unfortunately I have no idea what the amounts that they use at each addition actually are. This in a no-chill batch so theoretically it would have been higher, and it was STILL too sweet, to my palate anyway. I might try increasing the FWH and bittering additions next time I brew it and reducing the late addition. Or just increasing those additions and leaving the late addition the same. Those original additions were never set in stone anyway, it was just a base to work from and experiment with to work out what I need to do to achieve what I'm after. What's puzzling is this fruitiness. I'm not sure it's the yeast/raising the temp too early, because the first batch didn't exhibit this and it was done with this yeast and the same type of fermentation schedule. However, I will try delaying the temp raise by a little longer on the next one just to see if it helps reduce the fruitiness. Maybe it's purely perception on my part because the haze makes it look like a pale ale so I'm subconsciously expecting that kind of flavour from it. I have no way of knowing that though as I don't have a clear one to compare with. What's also puzzling and disappointing is that the FG samples were really promising, very close to what I was actually trying to get with this recipe, and now bottled and carbonated it's completely changed. Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antiphile Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 ...was also (lots of) chill haze Blotter' date=' I'm wondering if you're under-dosing the brewbrite near the end of the boil. There was one of your posts several months ago I think, that suggested you use 1 teaspoon. I've no idea how much you use now, but my standard dose would be about 7 times that rate. The instructions on the brewbrite I have is to use 4 grams per 23 litres of boiling wort. It's also very deceptive because, as opposed to say salt additions etc, it's a very light (ie. not dense) powder. One standard levelled [i']dessert[/i] spoon measures as near as spit to 2 grams. So if my guess is anywhere close, you are probably ending up with close to 27 litres post-boil (which would mean nearly 4.3 grams brewbrite) to fill a 25 litre cube? In volume terms, 1 level teaspoon is 5 mls; one level dessertspoon is 15 mls; one level tablespoon is 20 mls. For 27 litres of boiling wort that makes close to 2.5 level dessertspoons (or 7.5 level teaspoons if you prefer). The easiest way for me is to put the brewbrite in 10 times it's wieght in water in a small pyrex jug (for me it's 9 grams in approx 90 ml water and stir for a minute of so until you get a creamy consistency, and pour/rinse into the wort 10 mins before flameout. Then it gets whirlpooled, the lid goes on the kettle and left for 15 mins before slowly draining the wort. (I do the chilling and aerating in between those, but it's not essential). It should still be hot enough to effectively pasteurise and sanitise the cube and contents by that time. At some stage you might like to try it that way. I wouldn't be at all surprised if you notice a remarkable improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 I find with hoppy beers it sometimes takes a few weeks for the hoppiness to really shine. Two weeks bottled can often be too early. As for the haze I find increased late hops can lead to some haze, non of my IPAs ever drop clear. This late hopped Lager I am drinking has a fair whack of haze, and it's not chill haze. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted August 3, 2015 Author Share Posted August 3, 2015 I did suspect it was probably too early, in fact I know it's too early, but I like to have a tester anyway, even if it's just to make sure carbonation has happened. Was happy with that aspect - it poured a lovely creamy head and plenty of carbonation for two weeks but will probably increase a little more. The first batch also got better after a few more weeks. It just seemed weird to me that the hop character that was evident in the FG samples which was pretty much exactly what I was after, had completely changed 4 weeks later following a two week 'lagering' period and two weeks carbonating. However, they will get a few more weeks before I really start drinking them. I also figured the mountain of hops was partly responsible for this haze. The glass I had yesterday did clear up as it warmed up though (not completely though), and the FG samples were clear as a bell when I took them, so part of it definitely was chill haze. I would have thought the Polyclar would have done something about this, and maybe it did, I don't know what it may have been like if I hadn't used it. I'll increase its dose on the current/next ones, and I am gonna get hold of some Isinglass when I get the kegs this week too since I won't need much yeast in the keg. The Brewbrite amount is something that I have considered also, due to a conversation on here about its effectiveness. I think it was you Phil, who said you had noticed improvement since using it, when I hadn't. This made me think about my process and I thought *ding* weigh it! I have started weighing it now, unfortunately the first batch to have that happen was the one after this current one (took a while to implement as I didn't do a brew day for 2 and a half months) - from the brew day I did a couple of weeks back. I weighed it to 4-5g on that one, which ended up being a rather heaped teaspoonful, but I might try upping it next brew day. Will see how it's gone though when I remove this current batch to the keg and throw in that next one. Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porschemad911 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 I might try increasing the FWH and bittering additions next time I brew it and reducing the late addition. Or just increasing those additions and leaving the late addition the same. Those original additions were never set in stone anyway' date=' it was just a base to work from and experiment with to work out what I need to do to achieve what I'm after. [/quote']G'day Kelsey, With the hops, you might be better off reducing the early additions a bit and increasing the late additions. I'd also up it to a 45 IBU target since 40 isn't cutting through the malt sweetness enough. And yes, drop the 20 minute addition down to 5 minutes. The larger amount of hops that you'll have to add late to hit the 45 IBU target should give you plenty of hop aroma as well as decent bitterness. Cheers, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted August 3, 2015 Author Share Posted August 3, 2015 Hi John, That was my other thought yeah. Well, what other option is there really? Can only increase the early or late addition. I also thought about increasing the IBUs to 45 so maybe the next two brews I do of this, I'll move the late addition to 5 mins, and I'll up it to 45 IBUs - one batch with the late addition increased to hit 45, the other batch with the early additions increased to hit 45. Then I'll evaluate from there and see which one I like better. I suspect it will be the one with the increased late addition though. I'll wait and see how this current batch ages first though before brewing any more of these. After some time conditioning it may well improve. And I need to brew some ales to fill kegs quickly. If nothing else, all this experimenting is giving me plenty of refreshing beer to drink, and proving the fast lager method to be a winner, even if it hasn't quite turned out what I want yet. Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted August 7, 2015 Author Share Posted August 7, 2015 Well, V2 has hit FG (probably did about a week ago really) of 1007. So from OG 1047 I've got 5.2% kegged, 5.6% bottled. Just dropped the temp controller down to 0C where it will sit for two weeks, with isinglass and Polyclar added in the 2nd week, and be kegged on the 23rd at this stage. I may bottle the rest but I may just discard it too, I will only have about 2 litres leftover after kegging it. Hopefully it turns out better than V1 did - which I suspect may partly be due to the complete catastrophe of the mash that occurred on it. I will try another of those on Sunday and see what it's like after another week. Also during the 2nd week I'll prepare a yeast starter for batch V3, so that it can go into the fridge on that kegging Sunday, and crash for a few days before being pitched into the next batch to get that one underway. After that it'll be onto a couple of pale ales to get the stocks up! Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted August 9, 2015 Author Share Posted August 9, 2015 Tried another bottle of V1 earlier, and it has improved slightly from last week. Still not fully exhibiting the flavours I intended but it has moved more towards Bo pils flavours than APA flavours. I quick chilled this in the freezer, but I have put another bottle in the brew fridge with the lagering batch to sit in there cold until next Sunday when I'll try it again. It's interesting to see how it changes week to week. It is definitely suffering from a heap of chill haze though; it is rather cloudy when first poured but clears once it warms up a bit. Will be increasing the Polyclar addition on the current batch to try to combat this. Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porschemad911 Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 I tried another one of mine today (after trying the one from Balmain Brewing Co to compare). There's more carbonation now and the flavours are coming into balance. I think the 95% pils / 5% carapils malt ratio works quite well (although possibly slightly too rich) and the bitterness / hop presence is about right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted August 13, 2015 Author Share Posted August 13, 2015 Good to hear mate. It's a great style of beer to be able to brew successfully I think. How long has yours been in the bottles now? I stuck one in the fridge on Sunday which I'll be trying this Sunday, that will mark 4 weeks bottled for this batch. I plan to get some Urquell to compare it to but I want to wait until I feel it's hit its stride first. I threw some isinglass into the batch that's CCing yesterday, and will add Polyclar next week before kegging on that Sunday. I'm led to believe that kegged beers don't take as long to condition as bottled beers. I probably won't have any surplus bottles from this batch, but on batches that I do it will be interesting to compare kegged vs. bottled beer at the same timeframe post packaging. Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porschemad911 Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 I definitely agree with you on it being a great style! The word 'lager' wasn't something that brought fond memories of tasty flavour to my mind ... until I tasted some of the German and Czech ones that is. Mine's only been in the bottle 3 weeks or so - still very young. A bottle vs keg comparison would be interesting, looking forward to hearing any differences. See if the yeast activity during secondary fermentation in the bottle does help condition the beer vs the force-carbed keg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted August 14, 2015 Author Share Posted August 14, 2015 I can definitely see where you're coming from there. Even before I got into brewing/craft beer etc., I gravitated towards the European lagers more than the Aussie ones. Ahh cool. I reckon it'll be great after about 6-7 weeks, but that's only going off when mine usually hit their best. It'll definitely be an interesting comparison. There will obviously be some yeast in the keg although because it will remain chilled the whole time, it won't really do anything. I'm most interested to see whether there is any noticeable flavour differences between a bottled beer and a beer from the tap, from the same batch, at the same timeframe post packaging. Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted August 25, 2015 Author Share Posted August 25, 2015 Did a little side by side taste test just before, with one glass poured from the keg, the other from a bottle of the previous batch. There isn't really much difference between them, although the bottled batch is slightly sweeter. Unfortunately I've lost all the information regarding OG/FG readings etc. since my computer running XP decided to crash this morning. Supposedly the files were copied across but I'm f'd if I can find them anywhere. Oh well, the spreadsheet probably needed a cleanup anyway. Beersmith and Winamp were salvaged, although I have lost all my recipes Anyway, the bottled glass was left to warm up and Dad only drank about half of it.. so I decided to take this picture of a fresh glass poured from the bottle, next to the warmed up one.. the chill haze is very evident... I'll be glad to finish that batch off to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Not surprising yer computers knackered....is that your printer you're using there for a beer mat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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