Otto Von Blotto Posted September 14, 2015 Author Share Posted September 14, 2015 Kegged the latest batch of this earlier, it is now sitting in the kegerator with the gas on at 30PSI, where I'll leave it til tomorrow morning before dropping it back to 10PSI, and then trying not to pour one until the weekend... Hopefully this carbing method prevents the over carbonation problems I had with the first keg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted September 17, 2015 Author Share Posted September 17, 2015 So I tapped this keg tonight, more out of necessity than anything else (no cold bottles). It's not fully carbonated yet, however, this was expected and is a good thing because it means it won't end up overcarbed now. I set it to 30 PSI but I was a bit apprehensive so I dropped it back to serving pressure of 10 PSI after only 18 hours instead of 24. At least now I know for the future I can leave it for 24 and it'll be fine. This batch was also kegged a week earlier than I normally would for lagers (trying to fill kegs), and was brewed with untreated tap water instead of my usual distilled water + minerals. I won't really be drinking any more of it over the weekend (other plans) so at least it gets some time to condition in there. It's not tasting as good as the last batch yet, but I reckon with more time it will. Another thing I noted was that the font snake worked really well this time. I switched it on before I left for my second half at work earlier, and when I got home, the font and shanks and even taps had condensation on them, and poured absolutely no foam whatsoever. So pretty happy with that! I reckon the failure on the last keg was due to it being nearly empty and the temperature change, so it's great to have it working properly now. Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted October 6, 2015 Author Share Posted October 6, 2015 Hi guys, The time has come to brew another one of these on the weekend. After my little experiment of brewing one with untreated tap water, I am going back to my distilled water + mineral salts added back in for each batch from now on. The beer wasn't bad by any means, but just not quite as good as the previous one brewed with the treated water. I have also changed up the hop schedule a little bit to try to get a bit more Saaz influence in it. I have moved the 20 minute addition back to 10 minutes and increased it. So will see how that goes. This is the slightly altered recipe (leaving out the water and salt additions, since they're so miniscule around 0.3-0.5g each): This is a no-chill brew and nothing has been adjusted for this as per my normal procedure. Bohemian Pilsner V4 Type: All Grain Batch Size: 25.00 l Boil Size: 34.00 l Boil Time: 90 min Brewer: Kelsey Equipment: Electric Urn (10 Gal/40 L) - BIAB Efficiency: 72.50 % Est Mash Efficiency: 81.7 % Ingredients 5.000 kg Bohemian Pilsner (Weyermann) (3.9 EBC) Grain 1 95.1 % 0.250 kg Munich II (Weyermann) (16.7 EBC) Grain 2 4.8 % 0.010 kg Black Malt (Thomas Fawcett) (1300.2 EBC) Grain 3 0.2 % 50.00 g Saaz (3.03 %) - First Wort 90.0 min Hop 4 17.1 IBUs 50.00 g Saaz (3.03 %) - Boil 80.0 min Hop 5 15.4 IBUs 75.00 g Saaz (3.03 %) - Boil 10.0 min Hop 6 7.9 IBUs 1.0 pkg Urquell Lager (Wyeast Labs #2001) [124.21 ml] Yeast 7 - Gravity, Alcohol Content and Color Est Original Gravity: 1.048 SG Est Final Gravity: 1.010 SG Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.0 % Bitterness: 40.4 IBUs Est Color: 9.5 EBC I'll be doing my usual Hochkurz style mash on this, but in order to get Beersmith to more accurately predict the FG based on the past few batches, I put in a single infusion at 65C into it. I'm actually enjoying these beers being fermented down to around 1008-1010 even though it's slightly lower than the style indicates. In saying that, all the style guide markers pretty well line up right in the middle of the range for a Bo Pils. Edit: I forgot to mention actually, on Saturday me and a friend both did a blind side by side taste test with a glass of the previous batch and one of the real Pilsner Urquell. There was a definite difference in the aroma - the Urquell had more, however the flavour itself was very similar. This is partly why I changed up the hops for this next batch a little. Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headmaster Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Interesting stuff Kelsey, thanks for the update regarding this one. Being one of my all time fav beers as mentioned before, I am keen to master this one as well. I am finishing off a batch that I ruined by turning up the temp for the DR too early, made a very hurried gravity reading, thought it was 1020 but was actually closer to 1030 i suspect. This resulted in an unpleasant flavour that has diminished but is still there after many weeks in the bottle, can't quite describe the flavour, still drinkable but not great. This is using the clonebrews recipe kindly provided by Phil. Have just started drinking my second attempt, much better, but I underpitched this one, as a result of giving away to a friend, half my harvested WLP800, and underestimated it's viability at the time of use. I'll give this yeast one more go, but when I originally brewed this as my first and only extract brew with Briess Pilsen malt and W34/70, it was absolutely beautiful. In any case, the clonebrews recipe is not far off what you have there re hops, approx 100 to 120g at 3% for bittering, 28g at 15mins 28 at 3 mins but has 14g dry hopped after primary complete. I wonder does the commercial stuff have any dry hopping? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted October 6, 2015 Author Share Posted October 6, 2015 I wonder does the commercial stuff have any dry hopping? Not according to the article I read about their brewing process. Apparently the hop additions are a FWH' date=' 80 mins and 25 mins. Of course, they don't tell you the individual amounts [img']tongue[/img]. It just says 350g/hL of whole hops (about 3.5g/L). This is what I've based my recipe on, although I am tinkering with the late addition to get it where I want it. I'm also using about 5g/L pellet form hops. It appears that they chill the wort quite soon after the boil, so perhaps moving that late addition back to 10 minutes will more accurately imitate it. I'll see how this batch goes before deciding whether or not to move it even further back. In any case I am really happy how these have turned out so far, I'm happy with the malt makeup and mashing schedule, so now it's simply a case of tinkering with the hops to perfect it. WLP800 is the same yeast I'm using on my recipes too. I've found it brilliant so far, it'll be on its 5th re-use when it goes into the batch I'm brewing on Saturday. Of course we know it is more important to pitch adequate yeast when doing lagers, regardless of the strain. I reckon I'll have to step it up though as it has been a couple of months since it was harvested. I'll do a 1 litre starter first, then put it into my usual 4 litre size before harvesting 800mL for future use again. Will check these numbers on Yeastcalc before I confirm the smaller size step though. I wonder how many re-uses I can get out of it before I need a fresh pack... it's been going 6 months or so, so far and have yet to notice any problems in the beers from it. Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headmaster Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Have you noticed that the WLP800 or wyeast equivalent, spins off quite a pronounced flavour? Certainly much more influence than W34/70. And it is reminiscent of the commercial urquell, I must buy some are compare again. Found this from this issue of BYO 12 years ago: https://byo.com/hops/item/853-hop-to-style 'To get a real good hop aroma in your Czech Pils, you’ll want to use lots of Saaz. I use about 1 ounce (28 g) five minutes before the end of the boil and then will steep another ounce (28 g) for 20 minutes after turning off the heat with the lid on. Some will say you should dry hop a Czech Pilsner. I disagree. You can do it if you like, but this article is about hopping to style and Pilsners aren’t dry hopped. ' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted October 7, 2015 Author Share Posted October 7, 2015 It's hard to say as it's been so long since I've used W34/70 in anything, and those brews were a different recipe altogether too. However, from the blind taste tests we did on the weekend, the flavours of both my recipe and the commercial Urquell are very similar and I wouldn't be at all surprised if the yeast has an influence in that, especially given that it is the same strain they use in Urquell. I'm not really trying to clone it anyway, just brew something in the same style, and aside from the hop aroma, I feel I've achieved that now. It's closer than I expected but that is a good thing in my mind. Interesting little excerpt there on the hopping too. My continual tinkering is leading me to that point although I'll probably use double or even triple the amount of hops in the boil addition (which lines up with the 75g in this weekend's recipe). I won't do a flameout steep on Saturday, but next time I brew it I will try a 5 minute addition and a flameout steep. It's fun to play with it now given that I've pretty well got the rest of it down pat. I'm planning on doing a batch with 100% Bo Pils malt (nothing else) as well just to see what it's like, but I'll perfect the hopping first I think. Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share Posted October 21, 2015 Popped the fourth batch of this brew into the FV just before, this one was the one I slightly altered the hopping schedule on to try to get a little more aroma in the finished beer. The recipe is a few posts back. It will be fermented at 10C until the SG drops to the low 1020s (probably about day 5/6), then allowed to rise to 19C where it will remain until 4-5 days post fermentation (about day 14) before being crashed to 0C for two weeks, during which time Isinglass and Polyclar will be added, then kegged, as per my normal lager procedure. I got 24 litres into the FV this time, at an OG of 1045. Not quite up to 25 litres but some process tweaks, i.e. returning to original processes, on the brew day did help increase the volume. I may even bottle the excess this time around, but we'll see. Unfortunately there was a crapload of trub in the urn, otherwise I may well have ended up with 25 litres. I put this down to the floor malted Bo Pils malt, and will be experimenting with the "normal" version next sack I buy to compare. This will be the last of these for a little while though, as I need to churn through a few ale batches to fill kegs more quickly. Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted January 29, 2016 Author Share Posted January 29, 2016 Resurrecting this thread as I've just poured a glass from a bottle of this that has been sitting in the fridge since probably the last time I posted on this thread.. so about 3 months ago. This was the last batch that was fully bottled, which was the one with the messed up step mash brew day etc. The flavour has improved compared to what it was back then in the other bottles, but still nothing like what I was aiming for. The 3 month stay in the fridge hasn't done a great deal for getting the chill haze to settle out, although it is lessened. I'm happy to say that there are none of these left now, though. It wasn't a great result, especially compared to the following batches which all turned out bloody brilliantly. This thread can now go back on the backburner for a while at least from my perspective as I won't be brewing another one of these for a while yet. Too many kegs to fill and not enough time. Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heath1525229455 Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 I have just finished boiling this recipe, it is in the cube no chilling for the next day or two, I have bought two packs of W34/70 dry yeast which I plan to re-hydrate before pitching, my question is what temperature do you suggest I pitch and ferment at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted March 29, 2016 Author Share Posted March 29, 2016 Just done one myself on Friday for the first time in a while. Anyway, I normally pitch and ferment at 10C. After about day 5-6 (or whenever it gets down to 1.020ish), I let it free rise to 18C where it stays until it's time to cold crash it, as per the Brulosophy quick lager method. You don't have to do it this way, but the pitch/ferment temp of 10C remains regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heath1525229455 Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Thanks Otto, I will follow your advice, once fermentation has completed do I need to cc for a couple of weeks or can it go into the keg and cc there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heath1525229455 Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Sorry double post, fat finger syndrome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted March 29, 2016 Author Share Posted March 29, 2016 I don't see any harm in CCing it in the keg, no. In a way, that's what happened with mine; although I CC'd in the fermenter first, they went straight into the keg fridge so basically just continued the process in the keg. Improvement of the beer was noted the longer it sat in there. The only reason I do it in the fermenter first is to drop more yeast out before it gets into the keg, and also to add finings and keep them out of the keg as well. Other than that I can't see any reason why it can't be transferred to the keg and CC'd there, especially if yeast sludge is no issue and/or you're not using finings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heath1525229455 Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 What is the general consensus on filtering as apposed to useing finings? I am thinking of useing a 3 micron filter between the FV and the keg, after a period of CCING, rather than useing finings but want to make sure it is a good idea first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted April 8, 2016 Author Share Posted April 8, 2016 Well my personal view on filtering home brews is that I really can't be arsed bothering when finings do practically the same thing and are much less of a faff around. However, that's not to say I think it's a bad idea, so if you've already got the equipment and stuff there, may as well give it a go and see how it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heath1525229455 Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 Hi Otto, still exploring my options, I can get isinglass finings (not easy to find in Cape Town, but is available in Johannesburg) but am concerned about the instructions it says I should take 250ml of beer out of the fermenter add the 100ml of isinglass mix and return to the fermenter. Is this best practice? I thought one should never remove and then return anything to the fermenter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted April 13, 2016 Author Share Posted April 13, 2016 Those instructions sound a bit weird to me. I wouldn't do that myself, no. What I do (keep in mind the beer is chilled to about 0C in the FV at this time): - Boil water in a pyrex jug. - Chill in fridge for however long it takes to chill down - Add isinglass and put on stir plate for 20 minutes (stirring with a sanitised spoon also works) - Use a sanitised bigger spoon to gently get the beer moving in a circular motion in the FV and dump in the isinglass/water mixture And that's it. Apparently it needs to be kept below 20C or else it de-natures it and it doesn't work, hence why I chill the water. My isinglass comes in powder form though, if yours is liquid then you won't need the first 3 steps, but I don't see any reason why you couldn't simply follow the fourth step with it. It's still adding it to beer. I also store the isinglass powder in the fridge, probably best to store liquid forms of it in the fridge too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heath1525229455 Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 Thanks Otto, I started cold crashing yesterday so I guess I still have time to decide what I want to do, filter, finings or maybe just keg it as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted April 14, 2016 Author Share Posted April 14, 2016 No worries mate. If you do decide to go down the route of using finings, just make sure you give them 3-4 days in there before you keg it. Just gives them time to work and settle out into the trub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Hi Kelsey. I was having a look around the American Homebrewers Association website through their homebrew recipe listings & stumbled upon this "Best of Show" Bohemian Pilsner recipe, & immediately thought of you. I know you have a very good BP you're happy with, but thought you might like the looks of this one for perhaps a little tweaking & experimentation. The website has some absolutely terrific recipes on it for all styles too. From clones to show winners etc. Some of the best I've seen in recent times. Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted September 28, 2016 Author Share Posted September 28, 2016 Nice find mate! I actually used to use Munich II in my recipe before I got the melanoidin malt. My stepped mash profile seems to achieve the results of a Carapils addition at least in regards to the head. Interestingly low IBUs in that one too, similar to the Budvar lager which is in the low 20s I think. I probably won't change the malt bill of mine again as I feel I've got that where I want it now, but I might chuck in a flameout addition of Saaz next time I brew it and see how it goes on top of my usual hop schedule of FWH, 80 mins and 15 mins. That's not something I've tried with this recipe yet and it might help achieve more of that Saaz flavour I've got one on tap at the moment actually. It seemed a bit bland when it first went on tap but appears to be improving with time spent cold in the fridge, which is interesting. If only I had a spare fridge to store full kegs in until their time on the taps came along... Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headmaster Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 This is awesome Lusty, thanks for posting. Interestingly I have just gone through the process of refining and modifying my Czech Pilsner recipe ? I currently have a new 4L starter of WLP800 cold crashing in a brewfridge with 24 litres of wort cooling down from a ‘brewnite’ last night. Will pitch it tonight if the wort is cold enough. I agree Kelsey that one linked does look closer to a Budvar with the IBU spec. Looks like the author has forgotten to include the length of time for the 64c rest, but I’m guessing must be 30 mins or more. I’d like to try brewig this one linked soon, for an easy drinking quaffing beer that would be peaking in early summer I reckon. The one I brewed last night was for 24 litres, 4.8kg pils, 200g carahells EDIT forgot the 300g Munich I 200g wheat (thought I’d add for extra head retention, not likely to be used in Czech lagers I expect) 200g Acid malt 90 min boil 70g Saaz 3.39% 75 mins 40g Saaz 3.39% 20 mins 30g Saaz 3.39% 10 mins Ibu’s 36 SRM 5 OG was 1.057 Edit 2: I ran my usual protein rest at 50c with 17 litres of water with the grain for 40 mins, and added 8 litres of boiling water (gas burner and pot) to jump to 65c for the starch conversion. Although complicated, I must try this triple decoction as detailed in the article you linked a while back Kelsey http://www.morebeer.com/brewingtechniques/library/backissues/issue5.3/urquell.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted September 28, 2016 Author Share Posted September 28, 2016 I wouldn't mind trying the triple decoction too but it's just impractical on my setup at the moment, so in its place I cheat a little by using melanoidin malt as part of the grain bill. I find I get pretty good head retention from the mash rest at 71/72C for half an hour too without having to use any wheat malt, even with them finishing below 1.010 FG. I don't think I'll brew that exact recipe linked to, because I do like my pilsners more in the low 40s than low 20s for IBUs, however I will take some influences from it for experiments, most notably the flameout addition of Saaz on top of the usual hop schedule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted November 10, 2016 Author Share Posted November 10, 2016 I have another batch of this ready to be pitched on Monday, although I didn't use the flameout addition of Saaz as I brewed it before the previous posts about it in this thread. This will be the first one done with my new oxygen set up, so it will be interesting to compare to previous batches in terms of fermentation speed and the flavour once in the glass. Will post updates as it happens. Looking forward to it Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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