Otto Von Blotto Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 Had a peek in the fridge earlier, and it looks as if the krausen on this has pretty well subsided now - 8 days after pitching the yeast. 3 weeks to ferment lagers? Whoever heard of such rubbish! It sat at 11.3C for the important initial few days of fermentation before being ramped up to 19C, which it got to on Tuesday I think. I left it to come up naturally by itself in the fridge. It's probably just about finished fermenting by now, but I will leave it until Sunday to take the next SG reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headmaster Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Hopefully it will turn out to be a cracker. In support of the Brulosophy fast lager method, My previously mentioned Urquell clone extract effort has now been in the bottle 17 days, (14 days in primary, 2 weeks CC/lagering) tried one again last night. It was tasting very impressive at 9 days, but this blew me away I can highly recommend that Pilsner Urquell clone recipe, costs a bit more considering the amount of Saaz used, but all worth it for me. It has a rich but very well balanced flavour, sweetness and bitterness, no off flavours whatsoever detected, beautiful mouthfeel. Makes we wonder if brewing the same thing using grain could top this? I'm sure it could if done the right way. Just received my vacuum packed grain order from craftbrewer, along with some hardware to turn my crab cooker into an electric brew kettle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 Hopefully, although I'm not expecting a cracking beer. I had to use Magnum for bittering on this, as I only had 50g Saaz and it was old as well. I'm essentially following a similar schedule on mine too, as by the time I take the second FG reading on Tuesday, and start bringing the temp down if it is at FG, it will have been in about 13-14 days. It will then sit at 0C until I bottle it on the following weekend (23rd/24th May). I have higher hopes for the second batch brewed with all Saaz and also with my modified water. I'm basically honing the recipe with all these experiments. I reckon all grain would be better, but that's just bias on my part because when I went to all grain I immediately noticed a much better and fresher all round flavour in my beers. In saying that though I'm glad yours has turned out so well. It's a classic style in my view and to be able to replicate it at home would be pretty awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headmaster Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I actually would have considered less time lagering than the two weeks for mine, however for some reason more than the usual amount yeast was remaining in suspension. Was still a bit cloudy when bottled after the two weeks, and subsequently has resulted in a bit more yeast in the bottom of the bottles. Going to try gelatin fining the next time this happens. The next brew, same yeast (harvested again, W34/70 and coopers lager blend) cleared up much faster, looking clearer than the last one even before cold crash. This one was made up using a surplus OS lager, 1kg of same pilsen malt + a surplus 1kg BE1 and cascade/leftover saaz small 15min hop boil and dry hop. Not sure why but maybe to do with the first one being a larger volume 1hr boil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 Yeast are funny things. They never behave the same in every batch of beer. Why one batch cleared quicker than the other, I have no idea. You'd think the same yeast would floc the same every time, but perhaps they don't. Regarding gelatine, I am nearing time to start drinking the first batch I tried this on, although I have had a sample bottle already. The flavour was fine, however, I think next time I will leave it longer before bottling after adding the gelatine. I only waited two days on that batch, and it didn't clear as much as I'd expected, even after leaving the bottle in the fridge for days before drinking it. However, it was noticeably clearer than batches I haven't done it on. Next batch I'll add gelatine a week before bottling and see what happens. Maybe use a slightly bigger teaspoonful as well. I'm looking forward to what should hopefully be a much smoother brew day on Saturday, doing the next experiment on this recipe. The recipe is the same, but I'm doing my own modified step mash on it. I'm ditching the first two (35, 52C) steps, and starting it at 63 for 70 mins, up to 69 for 15 mins then my usual 78 mash out for 10 mins. The recipe itself is my own made up one of 95% Boh Pils malt, 5% Munich II, and a few grams of black malt to just darken it a tinge. I then do a 90 odd minute boil, with Saaz hops going in at FWH, 80 minutes, and 20 minutes to achieve 40 IBUs. This is essentially the same hopping schedule Pilsner Urquell uses, except the 20 min is 25 min in their case. Leave it sit for 10 mins for the trub to settle then drain into the cube to await fermentation. I'm hoping with this sort of combination single infusion/step mash schedule that I won't have the issues I was having with all the muck being released from the grains. I've done mashes at 63 before with no problem. If this turns out as good a beer as a step mash then I'll continue with this, as it will also take less time than a full version step mash, even if I could get it to work efficiently. Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted May 10, 2015 Author Share Posted May 10, 2015 I checked the SG of the first batch of this today (not the recurring recipe), and it has dropped down to 1007. I was expecting more in the range of 1012-1014.. guessing the mash spent too much time in the low range and created a way more fermentable wort than intended. The sample tastes and smells fine though, so infection dropping it isn't an issue there. Probably doesn't really taste like an authentic Bo Pils, although not a bad drop either, but will only really be able to judge it properly once it is bottled, carbed and chilled. I did only have 50g Saaz to use in it as a late addition which was pretty old too. It was bittered with Magnum. These more recent batches with full Saaz hopping I have more expectation from. And now that I'm starting to refine my brew day process for them, they should end up pretty good. Yesterday's one I went over my expected OG by one point (got 1047), although didn't get as much volume as intended (24 litres at a guess). Obviously not doing a step mash hasn't affected efficiency, so the grains must be pretty well modified, as me and a couple of others had guessed. The false bottom being in there I think affected where the level in the sight tube was, so I actually started the 75 minute boil timer later than I should have. Should still be a nice beer though. I am going to make up a tool for removing the false bottom (something like a stainless steel rod bent into a hook type shape at one end) once the grain bag has been removed, so that I can firstly scrape the element before turning the urn back on to bring it to boil, and secondly so that it doesn't provide an elevated "platform" for the kettle trub to settle on. I noticed the trub got drawn into the tap outlet a lot sooner than it does when it just settles on the proper bottom of the urn. It's been quite fun doing these recipes and learning and refining my process on each batch. I think now I'm at a point where I've pretty much worked it all out process wise - the next part of the refining will be the recipe itself, if I decide it needs any tweaks. I won't know until months down the track though when these batches are ready for consumption of course. Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I'm looking forward to what should hopefully be a much smoother brew day on Saturday' date=' doing the next experiment on this recipe. The recipe is the same, but I'm doing my own modified step mash on it. I'm ditching the first two (35, 52C) steps, and starting it at 63 for 70 mins, up to 69 for 15 mins then my usual 78 mash out for 10 mins. The recipe itself is my own made up one of 95% Boh Pils malt, 5% Munich II, and a few grams of black malt to just darken it a tinge. [/quote'] Hochkurz Mash Scroll down the page. http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Infusion_Mashing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted May 12, 2015 Author Share Posted May 12, 2015 Interesting. So it looks as if I've done that on the batch on the weekend, although different time frames at each step. I might try adjusting the times next batch. Reduce the time at 63 and increase the time at 69/70, and see what happens. Interestingly though, changing the duration of each step has no effect on the predicted FG in Beersmith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted May 25, 2015 Author Share Posted May 25, 2015 Bottling day today! The first batch of this is going in the bottles very soon. This was the the recipe that I first did, using the Magnum for bittering with the 50g Saaz as the late addition. It's also the batch with a crapload of trub in the bottom of the FV. My plan was to attempt to siphon it into the bottling bucket, but instead I have decided to attach a stocking to the end of the transfer hose and sort of filter the beer through it into the bottling bucket, hopefully leaving most of the trubby crap behind. Just boiled up the stocking so off I go downstairs to get this underway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porschemad911 Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 How'd you go? Get all clogged up, or work ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted May 26, 2015 Author Share Posted May 26, 2015 How'd you go? Get all clogged up' date=' or work ok?[/quote'] It did when I first tried it, because I used a quadruple layer of stocking. Tried a double layer and it was better but still slow as a wet week. So I went to a single layer and that worked much better, while still keeping pretty well all that rubbish out of the bottling bucket. I noticed when I got to the last bottle, that there were more floaties, but one bottle is nothing in a batch of 60 odd really. The rest were all fine, and the beer was the clearest I've ever seen at bottling time too. Slight yeast haze, but that was it. Maybe that Polyclar stuff works after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted June 6, 2015 Author Share Posted June 6, 2015 Trying another one of these today, this is almost two weeks since bottled. Tasting better this week than last, more like a pilsner, last week it had a bit of a sweetness to it which I attribute to it not being totally carbonated. It's probably not completely carbed yet but it is a lot better than last week. It has turned out brilliantly clear too thanks to the Polyclar, and now that the yeast has all but settled out the haze has completely gone, which these photos will show... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 wow. Congrats mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Pilsner in an IPA glass; how uncouth. Next you will be drinking straight from the bottle Looks like a good one Kelsey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnaman Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 G'day Kelsey, looks the good, you bloody show off, well done and keep up the good work. Photo's influenced by Ben of the North.... Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted June 6, 2015 Author Share Posted June 6, 2015 Cheers Ben! I'm quite impressed with its appearance. Flavour is good, but I expect my newer recipes to be more what I'm after flavour wise. Will report on those in this thread in due course as they are ready. Hairy It's the only glass I have that's big enough to hold the 500mL bottles. I did have a couple of more standard shaped pint glasses but they got broken. Edit: Cheers MM I'm really happy with the results of the Polyclar, and no effect on flavour either which is good. Yeah, I like to try to get the light behind them but I don't have many good spots here to do so, at least in winter anyway. In summer, the sun shines right through the back deck where the latter two were taken, from behind where I took those pics, so will be easier to get some kickarse pics in another few months time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 It's the only glass I have that's big enough to hold the 500mL bottles. I bought a pack of glasses from DFO for not much and got a whole range of homebrew sized ones. Keep a look out for that. I have two lagers lagering and am becoming rather impatient, I mean it has been just over a week.... fu..... The Pilsner style one seems to be dropping now so I'm interested to see how it pulls up against your polyclar brew mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted June 6, 2015 Author Share Posted June 6, 2015 Which store were the glasses from? Just over a week, well you've only got another week to go then if you're using the quick method, which I did use on this one and if the results are anything to go by I will be using it on every lager I do from now on as well. Also interested to see how the clarity is in your "untreated" batch. I've recently discovered that I need to be adding more Brewbrite than I have been though, which probably wasn't helping matters. Yeah, I noticed mine dropping clear in the second week although that did coincide with the Polyclar addition. In saying that though, I've noticed the same thing in batches without it, and they were nowhere near as clear at bottling time, or in the glass. Full of chill haze. Whether anyone else cares about such things in their beers is irrelevant to me though, I'm just glad I found a solution to the chill haze in my beers as it's something I don't particularly like, and I would recommend Polyclar to anyone else who desires to rid their beer of it. Clear beer and no effect on flavour. It doesn't cause fluffy easily disturbed sediment in bottles like gelatine does either. The ability to cold crash is required though as the beer needs to be cold for it to work effectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Which store were the glasses from? Just over a week' date=' well you've only got another week to go then if you're using the quick method, .[/quote'] NFI which store, sorry bud. Yes the quick method. I will indeed post pictures for comparison in this very thread. Nothing but Brewbrite in mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted June 6, 2015 Author Share Posted June 6, 2015 Ah no dramas, I've probably got enough glasses at the moment anyway really. I have 6 of those Spiegelau ones like in those pictures, they are SN branded ones I got from Yob off AHB a couple of years ago. The etching in the bottom of the glass is that of a hop cone. I only bottle one 500mL bottle per batch, this is the clear bottle I use as an observation bottle. The rest go in 355mL SN stubbies. Cool, look forward to seeing them Also look forward to seeing what effect adding the actual recommended amount of Brewbrite has on my next batch, whenever the next brew day is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Hi Kelsey. Congrats on the clarity of the brew. Very nice. Tasting better this week than last' date=' more like a pilsner, last week it had a bit of a sweetness to it which I attribute to it not being totally carbonated. It's probably not completely carbed yet but it is a lot better than last week. [img']https://scontent-lax1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/11425417_10207259690039127_4703435319896328089_n.jpg?oh=ed20cd13b70b1b90ec193ac693548e70&oe=55F82C96[/img] Since everyone else appears to take the position of "goody two shoes", I guess (as usual) it's left up to me to ask a few questions & appear negative as a consequence. For a pilsner, it's a little dark & more like a lager. The sweetness you are currently attributing to not being fully carbonated, have you considered in any way this being related to the practices you are following around the Brulosophy lagering methods if indeed they were followed with this brew? Sweetness = Likely butterscotch-like tones in lagers. If that sweet flavour continues throughout drinking, just something to consider moving forward. Cheers, Lusty. (The caring one!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted June 7, 2015 Author Share Posted June 7, 2015 I know you're thinking diacetyl there Lusty but it is definitely malt sweetness, not butterscotchy at all. It was a lot less apparent on today's testing. Last week's tester was only 6 days bottled, mind you. I do notice that my beers appear sweeter when they have less carbonation, and it's probably a result of carbonation, not giving bitterness per se, but there is more carbonic acid present, and it gives more of a bite to it which subdues the malt sweetness a bit. I've noticed it in my porter as well, which is way over carbonated. If I take a sip as soon as I pour it, it isn't bitter, but the malt influence is subdued; if I leave the glass sit for a while in the fridge (to ensure warmer temps aren't influencing flavour), when the excess carbonation is gone it tastes sweeter, smoother and I can better notice the flavours given by the various malts I used in it. It is a bit dark for a pilsner I agree, and I noticed in the cube it appeared darker than the subsequent batches I've brewed, so they may well turn out lighter in colour. I used no black malt in this one either. However, I really love the colour of this one. I don't like the really pale straw almost water coloured beers, they remind me too much of American megaswill. I prefer the colour more in the Pilsner Urquell range, which is what I'm aiming for on these brews. The phone camera doesn't pick it up all that well but to look at it in real life, it ain't much different. Either way, the colour doesn't bother me that much, it's the taste that counts and I reckon in another couple of weeks and beyond it will be pretty decent. It should also be noted that the malt bill got screwed up on this recipe due to not having enough pilsner malt available at the time, so it really became a bit of a test batch for a couple of things I've been wanting to try out. The subsequent batches are more in line with the recipe I wanted to do, so I have hopes that they will turn out even better than this one has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porschemad911 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Looks like a beauty Kelsey, that's the nice gold colour I remember from Pilsner Urquell. If the one I'm brewing next comes out anything near like that at all I will be very happy indeed! Mine will probably have chill haze though, but I won't mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted June 8, 2015 Author Share Posted June 8, 2015 Well at least you have a solution to the chill haze problem if it ever does bother you. Re the colour, that's exactly what my impression was when I tried the first glass last week. Very similar to the colour of Urquell. I also think that sweetness is due to using 1kg of Munich malt in it, unfortunately on this batch I had no choice but subsequent ones only contain about 250g of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted June 10, 2015 Author Share Posted June 10, 2015 Well, the time has come, tomorrow I'm going to mix up some DME and water in my big flask and boil it on the stove in preparation for the second incarnation of this beer to go into the FV whenever this starter is ready. Will work out how big to make it tomorrow. Going to be using second gen 2001 Urquell lager yeast. The brew day which produced this batch wasn't without its issues either. I again tried a step mash, this time without the false bottom, and it went worse. So, I just thought F it, got the old stock pot out and drained some "wort" into it, took it up to the stove and boiled it, then brought it back and tipped it back in, stirred around, repeated, until I got it up to about 66ish, where I left it for an hour before mashing out. The plus side was, that there was nowhere near as much crap built up on the element this time, so the boil went without issue. This was the first time I used my approximate Pilsen water profile, consisting of entirely distilled water with a few minerals added back in. Recipe is as follows: 5.000 kg Floor Malted Bohemian Pilsner (4.0 EBC) 95.1 % 0.250 kg Munich Malt - 10L (23.0 EBC) 4.8 % 0.007 kg Black (Patent) Malt (1300.0 EBC) 0.1 % 90 minute boil (probably more like over 100 minutes with the amount of wort I had) 40.00 g Saaz [3.03 %] - First Wort 90.0 min 13.9 IBUs 51.00 g Saaz [3.03 %] - Boil 80.0 min 15.9 IBUs 55.00 g Saaz [3.03 %] - Boil 20.0 min 9.8 IBUs 25 litres, measured OG 1046, 40 odd IBUs, 9 EBC color, brewhouse efficiency 72.2%. I hope the effed up mash doesn't bugger it up too much. The one I did after this I used a Hochkurz schedule on which went much more smoothly. Anywho, will report back how it all goes in due course. I also have some other experimentation planned for future batches, for moving that 20 minute addition around, to work out where I like it best. Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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