Help for Newbie's

[Oldbloke]

To be clear, I'm not knocking what some here offer in the way of advice. However, IMHO newbies only need basic info. After all most are doing kits and bits.

 

For example, if the FV is kept between, say, 18c to 25c its fine. And everything is clean. Good beer will be the result if bottled after about 7-9 days 9 out of 10 times. But some seem to push it will be crap if it isn't saaayyy, 18c to 20c. And must not bottle before saaay 13 days.  Or some other percieved best advice. This is just nonsensical. 

Newbies just need the basics, not complicated or highly refined/complex brewing systems.

 

It just confuses them and likely deter them from home brewing. They just need the basic info or pointed to the Coopers info videos, etc.

 

I'll get off my soap box and jump under the table now.

Edited February 9, 2023 by Oldbloke

[Shamus O'Sean]

1 hour ago, Oldbloke said:

To be clear, I'm not knocking what some here offer in the way of advice. However, IMHO newbies only need basic info. After all most are doing kits and bits.

 

For example, if the FV is kept between, say, 18c to 25c its fine. And everything is clean. Good beer will be the result if bottled after about 7-9 days 9 out of 10 times. But some seem to push it will be crap if it isn't saaayyy, 18c to 20c. And must not bottle before saaay 13 days.  Or some other percieved best advice. This is just nonsensical. 

Newbies just need the basics, not complicated or highly refined/complex brewing systems.

 

It just confuses them and likely deter them from home brewing. They just need the basic info or pointed to the Coopers info videos, etc.

 

I'll get off my soap box and jump under the table now.

Nar.  Stay on your soapbox because you make good sense.

I have been guilty of giving advice to newbies that is too complicated.

I agree that 18 - 25°C is fine.  All of my brews, until I got temperature control, were done in that range. 

Similarly, all of my first brews were bottled 2 - 3 days after the brew reached a stable final gravity.  In some cases that would be around 7 days after pitching the yeast.  No need to wait 14 days.

[kmar92]

14 minutes ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

Nar.  Stay on your soapbox because you make good sense.

I have been guilty of giving advice to newbies that is too complicated.

I agree that 18 - 25°C is fine.  All of my brews, until I got temperature control, were done in that range. 

Similarly, all of my first brews were bottled 2 - 3 days after the brew reached a stable final gravity.  In some cases that would be around 7 days after pitching the yeast.  No need to wait 14 days.

Agree wholeheartedly, simple brewing will produce great results. Temp control is great and not that hard to achieve, probably the best thing that I have done with my brewing journey.

My best advice is to measure specific gravity and use that as the guide to fermentation, don't just try to ferment on a timescale as there are many variables involved in fermentation. The ferment will take whatever time it takes, and the best way to judge that is from hydrometer readings of the specific gravity.

Edited February 9, 2023 by kmar92

[Hoppy81]

Agree. All i tell newbies is to watch the how to videos and get temperature control, the rest will come in time.

[Classic Brewing Co]

3 minutes ago, Hoppy81 said:

Agree. All i tell newbies is to watch the how to videos and get temperature control, the rest will come in time.

I would rather leave the brew in the FV longer & get on with other stuff than muck around with cold crashing however that can change from time-to-time because you can chop & change however you see fit.

I brew mostly Ales, so I am not fussed about clear beer.

Each to their own as long as you get the basics right.

[Hoppy81]

6 minutes ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

I would rather leave the brew in the FV longer & get on with other stuff than muck around with cold crashing however that can change from time-to-time because you can chop & change however you see fit.

I brew mostly Ales, so I am not fussed about clear beer.

Each to their own as long as you get the basics right.

Temperature control was one of the biggest changes to my beer with set and forget with temps. I remember the absolute hassle it was beforehand thus the reason i will always recommend temp control.

[Classic Brewing Co]

36 minutes ago, Hoppy81 said:

Temperature control was one of the biggest changes to my beer with set and forget with temps. I remember the absolute hassle it was beforehand thus the reason i will always recommend temp control.

Agreed, most of mine are temp controlled but my location & ambient temp also works for some without.

[ozdevil]

personally   with newbies to the game i would agree to much info at start can be information overload

i do believe  we all try to keep our information  easy and breathe and may just give a bit extra just to help


i think when it gets complicated when 20 guys reply to a post with more help then really is needed to answer the newbies question



 

[Classic Brewing Co]

22 minutes ago, ozdevil said:

personally   with newbies to the game i would agree to much info at start can be information overload

i do believe  we all try to keep our information  easy and breathe and may just give a bit extra just to help


i think when it gets complicated when 20 guys reply to a post with more help then really is needed to answer the newbies question



 

I would agree with that especially when bad habits, opinions & others stubborn procedures some into it. There are many variations of the basic brewing technique & it's pretty simple,

mix the ingredients, brew them, bottle them.

Technology & advanced brewing techniques have made it even easier even for the raw beginner not to mention the plethora of information available on the Internet.

Admittedly some wrong advice appears & occasionally some LHBS employees pass on misleading information to would be brewers.

Coopers have gone to great lengths to cover every aspect of DIY Brewing & most of the questions could be answered simply by studying the many tutorials available on this website.

I as many others are more than happy to pass on any information that is learned over the years to anyone that needs it, but it would be confusing for the newbie to sort out multiple opinions of advice on the same topic especially when some of them contain antiquated methods that are not necessarily ideal or even correct.

[Aussiekraut]

You aren't wrong here. I always tell newbies to keep it simple until they figured out their process and established a baseline to what they get without getting "fancy". But it all depends on whether you want to make beer, better beer or good beer. 

When I fist started brewing 20-odd years ago, I did just that. Things were simple, there was just a can of goo and a bag of dextrose. And my first beers were good. Mainly because I had made them and I was as proud as anything. However I started acquiring some nasty habits and also had to move out of the laundry and into the garage. That's when things got bad. During Summer, I boiled my beer and what I made was truly awful. If I had known any of the things I know today, If there had been a forum like this one, I could have avoided all of this and wouldn't have stopped brewing, being completely disillusioned. When I started again a few years back, I was going right down the same path until I found this place and had my head set straight. From there on, it only went uphill, my beers got better and today, I am quite proud of my beers and what I have achieved. Of course there is a helluva lot more to learn and to achieve. But it all depends on how far you are willing to go.

I want to help others not to repeat my mistakes and while it is true, that we learn from or mistakes, it is always better not to make them to start with. So while I tell people to keep it simple, I also point them into a direction that saves them a lot of hassle and disappointment and I think that is what most people here do. Although we do tend to go a little overboard at times, granted. We all started doing kits and kilos, most went on to do kits and bits and some went on to go all grain. People should stick with what they are comfortable with doing, there is no question about that. But I also try to encourage people to take it up a notch when they're comfortable enough.

[DavidM]

My brew journey started about 18 months ago and was put on track by the help I received here.

I tried to follow the Coopers DIY pages but missed a few steps cause I'm not that bright! Worked it out now, Coopers recommends checking for Final Gravity FG, after about day 7, two stable readings over two days and you are good to bottle. Which is what I still do, most of the brews I've left in the Fermenter for a longer time (in the early days), just seem to end up infected. 

Keep it Simple

Kit and Kilo plus a bit, will make good easy to drink beer. (for me the more Malt the better it is).

Kit and Kilo plus a bit and a steep of Carapils and a Dry Hop, make a very good easy to drink beer.

Temp control just makes it Easier, set and forget. And a better Beer!

Later those that want, you can move up to All Grain for Fantastic Beers

 

[SummerAle]

My first venture into HB was late 90’s

I’m sure it was Coopers. The kit consisted of a tin of extract, a plastic bag and a cardboard support for fermenting, a red plastic sugar measure for priming the bottles, and some clear hose for siphoning. It also came with some paper bottle labels 

the idea was to fill the bag using the cardboard ring for sidewall support, close the top of bag with a rubber band and when it starts to inflate, prick it with a pin a few times (amazingly simple way of excluding air) no air lock 

fermentation was completed when the bag deflated again. 
I gave up on it mostly because I didn’t drink much beer

Had another crack in 2015 with the more familiar Coopers screw top fermenter and airlock trying to imitate a 150 lashes. 
gave up again because it was becoming too expensive

Now I’m back again with the new Coopers bucket system with no air lock. 
the best thing I have done this time is to use a chest freezer as a fermenter fridge with an temp control system.

no airlock? No problems.

Im pretty sure the chest freezer fills with co2 and excludes any air for the duration

left one in for a month by mistake with no problems. I thought it might be an issue conditioning but the bottles started firming up after a day or so

I still have, and use the red plastic measure for priming sometimes, but the spoon for mixing that came with 2015 system just broke (shame Coopers shame). The stickers are still around also, way too hard to get them off the bottle to bother using them.

my tip

Most of the rules are made for repeatability of taste and body.

A clean environment with your best efforts and patience results in good beer.

Ad to that a stable temperature, and you get great beer

thanks for reading 

Edited February 9, 2023 by SummerAle

[Cheap Charlie]

I started brewing again in April 2021, tried it first around 2000 and after a few failures I gave up. Twenty years later and 30+ K&K's later I probably will move into AG soon.

I have to disagree with you guys - I really appreciated the complicated answers from some very knowledgeable brewers on here so I joined the forum. Some people don't want to be babied and if they don't understand I'm sure further questions will ensue. 

Ten months later and countless hours of research I feel I have learned so much, but yet still have a lot to learn. Cheers guys for taking the time. 

[NBillett09]

It really depends what type of personality you have as to what sort of “help” is actually helpful. If you’re someone who just wants the gist of it and to start and just roll with it as it goes then you probably would suffer from information overload if given too much technical or detailed information.

However if you’re a personality who has a need for details, processes, facts, figures, graphs etc then you probably have plenty of questions, some fairly specific, and so getting a lot of detail would be helpful. 
I certainly lean towards the latter. Lots of specific questions, I like to have a lot of info to learn from others mistakes and get the best result fastest. I only started brewing in December a couple months ago and have thoroughly enjoyed it all thus far and really the only thing keeping me from moving from KnK to AG is the space to setup and have equipment at home. I love reading books and watching YouTube tutorials and channels etc gathering knowledge on the topic, even on a bunch of staff I don’t really need to know or use right now but details are my jam! I just want to keep brewing over and over but the wallet says no haha!

Thank you to everyone who has patiently answered my questions and given me plenty of info for improving. You have made an excellent community right here!

[kmar92]

48 minutes ago, NBillett09 said:

It really depends what type of personality you have as to what sort of “help” is actually helpful. If you’re someone who just wants the gist of it and to start and just roll with it as it goes then you probably would suffer from information overload if given too much technical or detailed information.

However if you’re a personality who has a need for details, processes, facts, figures, graphs etc then you probably have plenty of questions, some fairly specific, and so getting a lot of detail would be helpful. 
I certainly lean towards the latter. Lots of specific questions, I like to have a lot of info to learn from others mistakes and get the best result fastest. I only started brewing in December a couple months ago and have thoroughly enjoyed it all thus far and really the only thing keeping me from moving from KnK to AG is the space to setup and have equipment at home. I love reading books and watching YouTube tutorials and channels etc gathering knowledge on the topic, even on a bunch of staff I don’t really need to know or use right now but details are my jam! I just want to keep brewing over and over but the wallet says no haha!

Thank you to everyone who has patiently answered my questions and given me plenty of info for improving. You have made an excellent community right here!

Great to hear that you are very interested @NBillett09 in the brewing process. It is also my interest, I love the process and learning better processes. It can be a deep dive, but it is a rewarding hobby.

[jennyss]

Thanks to @Oldbloke for starting this discussion; and thanks to all who have posted above. I have appreciated simple step by step information from this forum, and from Coopers DIY videos.  But I also agree with @NBillett09and @CheapCharlie; I too like to read lots of 'stuff'. I like NBillett09's comment " It really depends on what type of personality you have as to what sort of help is helpful".

 I think the information and sharing and sense of humour on the Coopers Community is great.  

It is interesting to look back over the year I have been a member.  Sometimes there are questions from new brewers who never surface again.  I hope they have kept brewing.  Best wishes to all

[Noobybrewer]

Hi everyone, 

I'm definitely new to home brewing.... as in am going to pick up my first home brew kit on the weekend. 

I'm in QLD and I'm looking around my house for places to ferment the wort and taken air temperatures (in the garage, in the cupboard etc) and am getting temps of 30 degrees C (or 28 degrees C if the thermometer is in water)... 

This seems at the upper range or outside ideal fermentation range (I was hoping to just start with a standard extract brew kit, Coopers and like).  At this stage, trying to control temp using a dedicated fridge/temp control is not on the cards (...yet)

How much is this going to affect the end result? As in is it worth trying to brew now or should I wait and see if it get better temps in winter?

Anyone brewed without temp control in high 20s? How'd it go?

Cheers

(...well soon, hopefully)

[ozdevil]

13 minutes ago, Noobybrewer said:

Hi everyone, 

I'm definitely new to home brewing.... as in am going to pick up my first home brew kit on the weekend. 

I'm in QLD and I'm looking around my house for places to ferment the wort and taken air temperatures (in the garage, in the cupboard etc) and am getting temps of 30 degrees C (or 28 degrees C if the thermometer is in water)... 

This seems at the upper range or outside ideal fermentation range (I was hoping to just start with a standard extract brew kit, Coopers and like).  At this stage, trying to control temp using a dedicated fridge/temp control is not on the cards (...yet)

How much is this going to affect the end result? As in is it worth trying to brew now or should I wait and see if it get better temps in winter?

Anyone brewed without temp control in high 20s? How'd it go?

Cheers

(...well soon, hopefully)

may i suggest   llalamend kveik yeast   for your ales   this yeast is a beast and works  well right upto 40°c   with optimum  being 32°c   however the ferment  is very quick and can be done in 3 days  thou  ,  this will work  if you cant access a fermenting fridge   

alternatively

however though there is other methods using wet towels and keeping them wet with the use of fan   and you can place fermenter in a tub of water  or even in the bathtub with water and wet towels    to try and keep as low as possible

I am sure others will chime in with some of there methods as well and welcome to brewing

 

[Shamus O'Sean]

1 hour ago, Noobybrewer said:

Hi everyone, 

I'm definitely new to home brewing.... as in am going to pick up my first home brew kit on the weekend. 

I'm in QLD and I'm looking around my house for places to ferment the wort and taken air temperatures (in the garage, in the cupboard etc) and am getting temps of 30 degrees C (or 28 degrees C if the thermometer is in water)... 

This seems at the upper range or outside ideal fermentation range (I was hoping to just start with a standard extract brew kit, Coopers and like).  At this stage, trying to control temp using a dedicated fridge/temp control is not on the cards (...yet)

How much is this going to affect the end result? As in is it worth trying to brew now or should I wait and see if it get better temps in winter?

Anyone brewed without temp control in high 20s? How'd it go?

Cheers

(...well soon, hopefully)

Agree with @ozdevil.  A yeast like Lallemand's Voss Kveik is your friend around 30°C.

The warmest I fermented in would have been about 28°C without temperature control.  So the brew could have been a few degrees warmer because it generates its own heat.  I did get some banana flavour in the brew.  At warmer temps you will get some unusual flavours and aromas.  However, you will not get them with Kveik.

[Oldbloke]

I agree with above comments. 30c is dangerous territory using the coopers yeast.

 

Cool it to say, 25c or use another yeast.

[jennyss]

Hi @Noobybrewer,

The only problem with your avatar name is that you'll have to change it in six months! 

I have been brewing for 13 months. I also don't have a fermenting frig (yet!). I brew Coopers or Woolworths extracts. What is your laundry like?  I have my fermenting vessel in the laundry and I can keep the room temperature to 24 deg and the brew to 18/22/24/26 deg in summer using a floor fan, a wet towel and ice-bricks when the outside temp here in Central West NSW ranges from 20- 38 deg.

I am waiting for winter to brew a Coopers Recipe of the Month which calls for a much lower temperature for the yeast.

Best wishes from a fairly new brewer

[Noobybrewer]

Thanks everyone for your suggestions, always a lot easier to hear from those that have done it before than guess! 

I got my first brew down yesterday arvo. The yeast was good for pitching up to 30 degrees. Temps were still a bit high (I'm going to put it down to too much hot water vs cold when mixing the wort) but got that down by cooling the fermenter in the bath tub before pitching. Next time I might try chilling the water I'm going to use for wort...

Anyway, took notes as I went, so I can improve on some areas next time. Pretty satisfying to see fermentation start and know that there's going to be (hopefully drinkable) beer in a few weeks!

Thanks again!