Mystery Gas Leak Found

[Red devil 44]

Well I’ve had my Kegerator 4 yrs and have finally had a leak, luckily the cylinder was nearly empty.

‘Could not track it down at first but I had suspicions, pulled the Gas Lines out of the Kegerator and hooked them up to gas again on my work bench, and what do you know, found the bugger.

‘The Y Union had a small split in it (see picture) which inside the Kegerator was tucked behind the keg, was starting to perish anyway. 

‘So I decided now is as good a time as any and replaced all lines with new pneumatic push in fittings, check valve, disconnects, Y Union, all hooked back up and leak check complete, no leaks. lucky I had a spare cylinder.  

Now happy again minus $30 for a swap 2.6 kg cylinder, always check your Gas Lines guys, I normally do once a month. 
I will order some more fittings on line and replace the other 4 lines in my Keezer, as preventative maintenance. 

[iBooz2]

Glad you found that humbug Red.  Good on you for persistence and your pic.

In your 'professional opinion', given the hidden nature of these lines and connections would it not be better to use say SS or brass barbed / crimp fittings and those compression rings to secure the hose to them?

I am just thinking out loud here as I have had no issues in a couple of years or more with my set-up using the push-in plastic fittings but I do wonder sometimes. 

A slight bit of force or tension, this way or that way when replacing kegs, some stray sanitizer to eat at the plastic, pressure fractures etc. and a leak is created.

Are you going to keep the plastics in the back room of your keg set-up or go metal?

 

Edited December 30, 2022 by iBooz2

[RDT2]

6 hours ago, Red devil 44 said:

Well I’ve had my Kegerator 4 yrs and have finally had a leak, luckily the cylinder was nearly empty.

‘Could not track it down at first but I had suspicions, pulled the Gas Lines out of the Kegerator and hooked them up to gas again on my work bench, and what do you know, found the bugger.

‘The Y Union had a small split in it (see picture) which inside the Kegerator was tucked behind the keg, was starting to perish anyway. 

‘So I decided now is as good a time as any and replaced all lines with new pneumatic push in fittings, check valve, disconnects, Y Union, all hooked back up and leak check complete, no leaks. lucky I had a spare cylinder.  

Now happy again minus $30 for a swap 2.6 kg cylinder, always check your Gas Lines guys, I normally do once a month. 
I will order some more fittings on line and replace the other 4 lines in my Keezer, as preventative maintenance. 

Glad you found the leak and didn’t lose too much gas.  I turn my gas bottle off when not in use at least that way worst case scenario is only the keg loses the gas if a leak happens and not a whole bottle especially when using a 6kg model.

[stquinto]

Interesting point you bring up there Red. I’ve lost a full bottle of nitro recently (overpressurised the keg and the beer line was on, so it split the tube and transferred 10l of Guinness into the keezer). When I turn on my nitro into another Guinness keg it keeps on filling it (as in the noise of a keg being gassed up). There’s less than 10l left so I might do a transfer from the cornie to a spare 10l keg: that one at least has a screw top so a leak couldn’t come from that. Since I put silicone gel on the cornie ring it has already slipped once.

Everything is heavy-duty tubes and jubilee clips, so no plastic really.

Edited December 30, 2022 by stquinto
Typo

[Red devil 44]

21 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

Glad you found that humbug Red.  Good on you for persistence and your pic.

In your 'professional opinion', given the hidden nature of these lines and connections would it not be better to use say SS or brass barbed / crimp fittings and those compression rings to secure the hose to them?

I am just thinking out loud here as I have had no issues in a couple of years or more with my set-up using the push-in plastic fittings but I do wonder sometimes. 

A slight bit of force or tension, this way or that way when replacing kegs, some stray sanitizer to eat at the plastic, pressure fractures etc. and a leak is created.

Are you going to keep the plastics in the back room of your keg set-up or go metal?

 

@iBooz2My mate knows the Manager from SMC Pneumatics so am going to source some top notch SS fittings for both my Kegerator & Keezer.

[Pezzza]

@Red devil 44 Reddler your help please mate - and anyone else out there with some input - most welcome please...

Have been having a few issues with my Gas Posts - both the Nitro higher Pressure - and the CO2 probably also more so when running the Fast Carb...

So two different Gas Disconnects from the two different Gas Cylinders... 

 

But both having issues - where on disconnecting - am having the little black Rubber O-Ring getting stuck in the orifice... and then of course causing massive gas leak... or a tiny slow one can also happen but more so a bigger more evident jammed o-ring.

And I think also not doing good things to the O-Rings....

Here is an example in-situ where I changed out the whole post in anger... : \

 

Anyway - it is something that is a pain and I would be happy to take any advice on how best to mitigate... please

 

Sometimes I just do a few more connect-disconnect actions and the o-ring returns back inside - and things seal again - but I cannot think that is a great way to go... but can be a quick fix...

Help please?

 

[John304]

That’s the poppet, either change the o rings on the poppets or put new poppets in, then use food grade lube

john

[Pezzza]

6 minutes ago, John304 said:

That’s the poppet, either change the o rings on the poppets or put new poppets in, then use food grade lube

Thanks John mate.... sorta think I have done that already....  and have still encountered the same problem...  may not be applying lube enough and regularly to the o-rings maybe...

Or whether the Disconnects are somehow worn...

Or whether I am removing the Disconnect at an Angle that is making the O-ring catch somehow...

Anyway am hoping to try to make some changes so that this does not occur regularly...

Cheers

[Red devil 44]

Sorta what John said @Pezzza

Replace the O-ring& poppet.

‘My also be the spring, I would replace that as over time springs do lose their tension, also make sure the spring is in the right way as pictured below.

‘Hope this helps mate.

[Pezzza]

4 hours ago, Red devil 44 said:

Replace the O-ring& poppet.

‘My also be the spring, I would replace that as over time springs do lose their tension, also make sure the spring is in the right way as pictured below.

Rightio

Thanks @Red devil 44 Reddler 

[Red devil 44]

19 minutes ago, Pezzza said:

Rightio

Thanks @Red devil 44 Reddler 

No worries mate, best of luck

[Red devil 44]

Upon replacing my gas lines in my Kegerator the other day I suspected another leak, put on a pressure test overnight and turned cylinder off, disconnected kegs, this morning, zero pressure.

‘Got the sh&ts so pulled all lines from my Kegerator out and set up again on a table so I could find the problem, and I did, the small poppet valve inside the keg coupler was weeping.

Anyway suspected and got to it before it drained the cylinder, now is replaced with a spare, no leaks. 
‘Pics below.

[Classic Brewing Co]

25 minutes ago, Red devil 44 said:

Upon replacing my gas lines in my Kegerator the other day I suspected another leak, put on a pressure test overnight and turned cylinder off, disconnected kegs, this morning, zero pressure.

‘Got the sh&ts so pulled all lines from my Kegerator out and set up again on a table so I could find the problem, and I did, the small poppet valve inside the keg coupler was weeping.

Anyway suspected and got to it before it drained the cylinder, now is replaced with a spare, no leaks. 
‘Pics below.

Well done RD, you are the man. 

[Red devil 44]

3 minutes ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

Well done RD, you are the man. 

Cheers mate, spent 30 odd years in the Gas Industry as a Fitter so that stuff drives me nuts, & costs money.

‘Thinking of changing to SS Fittings 

[Classic Brewing Co]

14 minutes ago, Red devil 44 said:

Cheers mate, spent 30 odd years in the Gas Industry as a Fitter so that stuff drives me nuts, & costs money.

‘Thinking of changing to SS Fittings 

Yeah, well I have been kegging for 12 months, it has been a smooth ride so far & there is always help available if you need it. I think I have the basics covered but if there was to be a leak or something I would definitely need help.

Anyway, glad you got it sorted mate.

[Shamus O'Sean]

5 hours ago, Red devil 44 said:

Cheers mate, spent 30 odd years in the Gas Industry as a Fitter so that stuff drives me nuts, & costs money.

‘Thinking of changing to SS Fittings 

Was it down to the plastic disconnect or the rubber seal on the poppet?  I have had a couple of cases where a tiny piece of fibre has got caught in the gas post poppet and let gas out.  A quick disassemble, clean, sanitise and put back together has seen the problem solved.

Gee what am I doing giving advice to the gas guru.  It's okay, I will go and sit in the corner.

[Red devil 44]

12 hours ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

Was it down to the plastic disconnect or the rubber seal on the poppet?  I have had a couple of cases where a tiny piece of fibre has got caught in the gas post poppet and let gas out.  A quick disassemble, clean, sanitise and put back together has seen the problem solved.

Gee what am I doing giving advice to the gas guru.  It's okay, I will go and sit in the corner.

Ha ha, all good @Shamus O'Sean, yeah I disassembled, checked & cleaned all parts, o-ring grease, reassembled & tested. 
Couldn't see anything obvious, but thoroughly cleaned, will do some preventative maintenance with all my others too. 
Was just a fyi of things to watch for other brewers to be aware of also. 

[kmar92]

On 1/7/2023 at 6:00 PM, Red devil 44 said:

Cheers mate, spent 30 odd years in the Gas Industry as a Fitter so that stuff drives me nuts, & costs money.

‘Thinking of changing to SS Fittings 

I have had a few problems recently with the run of the mill plastic corny disconnects. They have done a couple of years of service and lately they have given a few problems.

I am wondering if you guys think that changing up to S/S disconnects is worth the extra money that they cost? I have seen some nice looking machined S/S disconnects but they are like 6x the price of the plastics jobs. I have also seen some cast versions in S/S that are about 3x the price of the plastic ones.

Edited January 8, 2023 by kmar92

[Shamus O'Sean]

21 minutes ago, kmar92 said:

I have had a few problems recently with the run of the mill plastic corny disconnects. They have done a couple of years of service and lately they have given a few problems.

I am wondering if you guys think that changing up to S/S disconnects is worth the extra money that they cost? I have seen some nice looking machined S/S disconnects but they are like 6x the price of the plastics jobs. I have also seen some cast versions in S/S that are about 3x the price of the plastic ones.

Good question.  I am interested to read the replies.  

I started kegging about the same time as you kmar.  My plastic disconnects (all from Kegland) have held up fine.  But if you have had the odd issue, I will keep an eye on their performance.

[kmar92]

13 minutes ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

Good question.  I am interested to read the replies.  

I started kegging about the same time as you kmar.  My plastic disconnects (all from Kegland) have held up fine.  But if you have had the odd issue, I will keep an eye on their performance.

I just pulled apart 1 of them and the only moving parts within is just a poppet valve. However I haven't seen any retailers that sell replacement poppet valves for disconnects. OK I will just soak this disassembled disconnect in some PBW overnight and then reassemble it tomorrow with some lube on the O ring and see how it goes.

Yes Shamus, I think that we both dived into kegging at the same time. I even think we have similar aged Series X kegerators.

[Shamus O'Sean]

4 minutes ago, kmar92 said:

I just pulled apart 1 of them and the only moving parts within is just a poppet valve. However I haven't seen any retailers that sell replacement poppet valves for disconnects. OK I will just soak this disassembled disconnect in some PBW overnight and then reassemble it tomorrow with some lube on the O ring and see how it goes.

Yes Shamus, I think that we both dived into kegging at the same time. I even think we have similar aged Series X kegerators.

What was the issue?  I had what I thought was a dodgy disconnect.  It was always a bit stiff to connect/disconnect.  It turned out the issue was the wrong seal on the beer post.  It had an ever so larger thickness than it should have.  Maybe it was a dip tube seal.  Once I swapped to the thinner seal, problem was solved.

Yep, I think we exchanged messages about our Series X kegerators around that time.

[kmar92]

3 minutes ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

What was the issue?  I had what I thought was a dodgy disconnect.  It was always a bit stiff to connect/disconnect.  It turned out the issue was the wrong seal on the beer post.  It had an ever so larger thickness than it should have.  Maybe it was a dip tube seal.  Once I swapped to the thinner seal, problem was solved.

Yep, I think we exchanged messages about our Series X kegerators around that time.

The issue with the one that I have pulled apart was that it was virtually impossible to connect to a corny. After pulling it apart I see that may have been caused by the poppet valve being stuck, there is a balance between the poppet valves in the disconnect and the keg post and they have to work in unison to both open together. There is actually a fair bit of stuff going on between the disconnect and the keg post as it is 2 opposing springs in 2 separate poppet valves that have to open in unison. I am glad that I pulled the disconnect apart to see how it works and I am sure that after an overnight soak and then being lubed up on assembly that it will be fine again. Anyway my take away is that any disconnects or keg posts on the liquid side need periodic maintenance, once they have had beer through them and if they dry out poppet valves may stick.

[Malter White]

Hi all.

I'm currently sipping on my first beers dispensed from my recently acquired PET King Kegs. Previously I'd only used the 8l Kegland PETs which have a special tap head lid. Kegland say they'll seal plastic on plastic, no problem....and they have.

Reading some of your comments about grease I'm wondering if lube is imperative for my new kegs because they have o rings. I've attached a couple of photos of the new lid. It's two pieces. One photo is the pieces held together, the other is separated to show the o ring. The three holes are for gas post, liquid post and PRV.

Edited January 8, 2023 by Malter White

[Shamus O'Sean]

8 hours ago, Malter White said:

Hi all.

I'm currently sipping on my first beers dispensed from my recently acquired PET King Kegs. Previously I'd only used the 8l Kegland PETs which have a special tap head lid. Kegland say they'll seal plastic on plastic, no problem....and they have.

Reading some of your comments about grease I'm wondering if lube is imperative for my new kegs because they have o rings. I've attached a couple of photos of the new lid. It's two pieces. One photo is the pieces held together, the other is separated to show the o ring. The three holes are for gas post, liquid post and PRV.

Malter, I have three of the Fermenter King Junior's.  They are fermenters and pretty much the same as the PET King Kegs, except they are clear PET.  The lid is identical to the one in your photo.

I think I might have put food grade lube on the red O-ring when I first got the FKJ's.  However, I have not lubed them since.  A spray of starsan is enough lube to get them snuggly into the mouth of the keg.  At that point they are sealed.  The screw on ring just holds the inner lid in place.  So, in my experience they do not have to be lubricated.  Would it be beneficial?  Maybe.

I have never leak tested my FKJ's.  However, during fermentation they regularly get up to 15psi.  It is hard to know if they are airtight because they have a spunding valve fitted to let the pressure escape at 15psi.

[Malter White]

@Shamus O'Sean Thanks for the response. It gives me some reassurance. I don't have any lube at this stage. I'll probably get some when I next go shopping but at least I know it's not an urgent issue....yet.