What sort of a brewer are you?

[Journeyman]

18 hours ago, Worts and all said:

 I’ll leave that up to those who like to attenuate and flocculate, and good luck to them

I flocculate until I'm attenuated and then I crash for a while...   

17 hours ago, Norris! said:

I know a lot of people who tried brewing and stopped. They all have various reasons but the one that comes up, if you dig a little, is that the beer didn't taste like they expected.

Murray Bridge is a town without a single craft tap & when I 1st started HB I thought the numbers of HB'ers must be tiny - the LHBS seemed always deserted (& the exorbitant prices would help explain why) and that was maybe why craft never got started here.

But one of the Club barmen came around for a sample or 4 & now I've discovered a swag of ex-HB'ers. They all seem to have the same reason you give - couldn't get the beers they wanted and/or off tastes. (probably the twang people talk about)

17 hours ago, Norris! said:

let's have a drink tonight for those who couldn't do what we do and be thankful for what we can do and will do, when we do the do

I'll drink to that.

I doubt I will ever 'graduate' to AG - between laziness, costs and satisfaction with my K&K plus PM's I'm OK with where I am at. I get enough 'sciencey stuff' to keep my inquisitive side content and it's always good to get tangible results for your work and I can get 2 brews in the fridge in under 3 hours including mash time. Also there's the playing around with filtering, recipe additions and now, pressure brewing and transfers.

And with the equipment I've put together I can do bottles whenever I wish by sticking the adapter in a tap & using the keg brew.  So there goes most of the hassle of bottles.

[Classic Brewing Co]

17 hours ago, BrewLizard said:

Kit and kilo is undrinkable.

I would suggest that is a bit harsh, there a lot of brewers on this forum & elsewhere who are more than happy to brew a basic beer without too much effort.

Having said that I realise if one wants to take it to a higher level, with experience & guidance they can but not everyone wants to become an AG brewer.

Finally this is only my opinion & I know people can do what they like but sometimes lack of space & finances limit are a factor.

Anyway Cheers.

[Worts and all]

2 hours ago, CLASSIC said:

I would suggest that is a bit harsh, there a lot of brewers on this forum & elsewhere who are more than happy to brew a basic beer without too much effort.

Having said that I realise if one wants to take it to a higher level, with experience & guidance they can but not everyone wants to become an AG brewer.

Finally this is only my opinion & I know people can do what they like but sometimes lack of space & finances limit are a factor.

Anyway Cheers.

I was going to leave that unfortunate “ kit and kilo” remark alone , it being obviously untrue and , as I see it, inappropriate for this forum. You have put the case very well ,and I endorse your comments. I brew kit and kilo( and extra bits) because I love it. Undrinkable? No, bloody delicious! Cheers.

[Classic Brewing Co]

38 minutes ago, Worts and all said:

I was going to leave that unfortunate “ kit and kilo” remark alone , it being obviously untrue and , as I see it, inappropriate for this forum. You have put the case very well ,and I endorse your comments. I brew kit and kilo( and extra bits) because I love it. Undrinkable? No, bloody delicious! Cheers.

The way I see it if some potential newbie visited this forum & saw remarks suggesting you have to go whole hog into it otherwise you beer will be awful, it would be a put off.

Everyone has the right to express their opinions & I am not criticising the writer but I think everyone has to start somewhere & as yourself I am happy with my brews, furthermore my friends & visitors think they are OK too.

At the end of the day wherever the journey takes you, it is up to the individual to do whatever he or she wants.

[jamiek86]

back in the old days of pb2 when coopers actually monitored the site such comments would have had consequences.

[BrewLizard]

 

1 hour ago, CLASSIC said:

The way I see it if some potential newbie visited this forum & saw remarks suggesting you have to go whole hog into it otherwise you beer will be awful

Just as well no one said that.

 

2 hours ago, Worts and all said:

I brew kit and kilo( and extra bits) because I love it. Undrinkable? No, bloody delicious! Cheers.

So we don't disagree.

[Aussiekraut]

On 5/26/2021 at 7:31 PM, BrewLizard said:

Kit and kilo is undrinkable.

I see a few people cocked up on this one a little. I guess it depends on your definition of k&k.

A <insert kit here> with a kilo of brewing sugar or dextrose, is undrinkable. I've made plenty of those 20+ years go and they were all crap...I just didn't realise it back then. A <insert kit here> with a kilo of DME or maybe even BE3 is not necessarily undrinkable, especially if brewed with temp control (although that is being debated too) and non-kit yeast.

One doesn't have to be an AG brewer to make good beer but a sure fire way to make bad beer is to go with the cheapest and laziest option. As it was mentioned, many home brewers gave up because what they made didn't taste like what they like. I think the kit manufacturers aren't innocent in this. I know they make instructions as easy as possible, to get to as many people as possible but some advice is just wrong IMHO. One can not brew a great beer with kit yeast at 27C day and 16C night time temp. Just like one cannot make great beer when brewing in a hot garage in Queensland, in Summer with just a kilo of dextrose added to a draught kit (lowering my head in shame). 

I'm not dissing different types of brewing, I am dissing doing the wrong thing and not learning from mistakes or failures. When I restarted brewing, I went down the same path, making the same mistakes until I joined this forum. I asked questions, I read other people's posts and I learnt. I learnt a lot. And while I have advanced to a point I never thought I'd be at, I know I made some really good beers I really liked. I'm just making better ones now I think. AG gives me a lot more control over my beer and I like what I am making but in the end, I am still a "lazy" brewer. I have worked out a process that works for me and I adhere to it but that is as far as it gets. I do experiment of course but I don't go out of my way to go the extra mile. I advance slowly at my own pace. AG brewing is time consuming (although the waiting time can be used otherwise), so I try not to get too cocky and waste hours of time on a dodgy batch. I made a few AG beers I am not sure about or didn't like much at all but generally, I am very happy with my products and that is what I brew for. 

Keep the answers to the OP coming though. I like what I read so far. 

 

Edited May 27, 2021 by Aussiekraut

[Worts and all]

2 hours ago, BrewLizard said:

 

Just as well no one said that.

 

So we don't disagree.

Actually we do disagree ,but only on details, and that’s fine. I added the (extra bits) as a sort of- - extra bit. I add extra bits where I have found they make a beer more suited to my tastebuds. Some kits, for example Coopers English Bitter are delicious, properly brewed with just a kilo of LDM.. Brewed with a kilo of dextrose or similar it would probably be awful. I don’t know, I’ve never tried it. @Aussiekraut covers it nicely in his thoughtful commentary.  Anyway ,let’s all enjoy  brewing in our own ways. Happy brewing!

[MitchellScott]

I started out as a Kit brewer and quickly progressed into buying unhopped malt extract and using my own hops/mini boil to create a brew. Made some very nice beers too.

Quickly moved into AG and haven't looked back personally. Got myself a Brewzilla and use the no chill method. Have got my process down pretty well with no chilling and making hoppy beers which can sometimes be a bit of a pain with no chill.

Can't be bothered with PH/water chemistry. I am happy with the beers I am making with plain old tap water. I also don't strictly monitor my OG etc. If I am a few points off or something, meh. I do still check it though of course, to get a final ABV percentage and check that nothing has gone disastrously wrong.

I will get the occasional FWK if I have been strapped for time/am feeling lazy. 5mins and you have a AG quality beer in the FV. Does feel like cheating though...

Cheers

[Barramullafella]

Beer taste is subjective. Some folks like stout and some like lager. Some like Southwark, and some like XXXX Gold. No one taste is the correct beer unless it is for you. I don't believe K&K is bad tasting or brilliant tasting. But, I have made some nice tasting beers [for me] in the past using K&K. I like the Coopers 1.7 recipes I have tried thus far, and even the Woolies brand lager which I have read is supplied by Toohey's. The one that I find the most suitable for me as a common beer would be the lager style, but using ale yeast. So, drink and be merry as is said.

[Classic Brewing Co]

A really good topic & discussion @Aussiekraut  I could be wrong but it seems to me that the whole process of beer making could easily be placed into different categories

1. Beginner - one who has no experience & has the basic kit to make beer & follows the instructions supplied.

2. Enthusiast  - one who has limited experience but willing to try new methods & seeks advice to further his knowledge.

3. Advanced - one who has made consistent good beers, adds/replaces basic products with Liquid Malts/Partials/Hops etc.

4. Expert - one who is capable of producing outstanding beers using advanced methods & utilises more equipment.

5. Professional - one who is at the top of his/her game & makes beers worthy of competition standard.

Of course this only my analysis & is very basic. I am very happy to stand corrected. 

Most of the obvious has been covered in previous discussions but I reckon we are all on the same side whatever category one places him/herself in.

My final point is without this forum most of us would still be reading the instructions on a tin. 

Cheers

Phil

[BlackSands]

My main motive behind brewing my own beer initially was simply to save $.  I've been in and out of the hobby several times dating back to the 80's but this more recent indulgence really was motivated by the need to limit my weekly booze spend.  However, down the rabbit hole I went anyway and pretty soon found myself obsessed and totally caught up in all the ins and outs and technical, sciencey stuff that can go with the hobby.  I even managed a local home brew store for a year!  I actually went quite deep down the rabbit hole as I did find it interesting but eventually I came up for air.  While it's all very educational I do find that in practical terms there really wasn't any significant benefit to be had at the glass by fussing too much over the minutiae - not to my tastes anyway.  E.g. I own a pH meter, used it a few times and haven't bothered since.  I obtained an analyses of my water, but never bothered with precise water chemistry adjustments - just an arbitrary bit of water-hardening with some gypsum usually does the trick.  I used to concern myself with achieving my mash targets etc and getting the temperatures spot on, but not so fussed anymore.  Near enough really does seem to be good enough for me. 

I've just recently sampled a "kits and bits" brew I threw down a short time ago,  a first for a while.  Very young still but it's shaping up to be a very nice brew indeed.  I needed a quick brew to get stocks back up after a recent house move, so a quick brew day and thanks to a hot ferment with kveik voss the beer was in bottles in less than a week - including a couple days CC.  I like the simplicity of beer making this way but I will return to brewing my usual stove top AG batches and maybe the odd partial.  They're cheaper for a start, and while I'm more than happy with the kit/extract beers I have brewed on occasion I do like to work with grain - it feels more like brewing. 

While AG is certainly more involved than extract brewing I do like the relative simplicity of my stove-top BIAB approach to AG.  I usually brew lower ABV/reduced carb beers, often 20 litre batches by making a concentrated wort - around 12 litres and then simply top up to final volume at the end  - much as you do with extract brews.  It's simple because I use a single 20litre pot for the entire process, all done in the kitchen and I of course don't have to concern myself with water volumes, boil off rates and all that stuff etc.  I used to also heat the sparge water up to 76º but now I don't bother; hot water straight from the tap does the job adequately.  I rarely boil for longer than 30-40 minutes - I organise my hop schedule to fit within that window and as I most often use kveik yeast these days my chill times are much quicker  - I just get my 12litre wort down to around 45ºC - top up with cold water and the temperature is then about right for kveik. 

I can get an AG brew all done and dusted in around 3.5hrs and I'm more than happy with the results - most of the time!        

[RoyalDave]

Have been brewing for 20+ years, mostly from kits  and adding brew boosters and occasionally hops and other additives.

I'm in the camp of taking the somewhat unscientific approach.

Never had temperature control - but have always found a room in the house that at least allows "steady" temperature - if not the most desired temp.

The brewing equipment has always been pretty basic - except for investing in a kegerator a few years ago - and I won't look back from that one.  

Kits CAN make great beers - and I've made many that I found very satisfying  - but I have avoided (pale) lagers in this time. That said I only recently realised that S189 yeast was a thing so I do wonder about lost opportunity...

Anyway, partly due to COVID lockdown last year, I have a new found love for homebrewing. After being very enthusiastic with the kits and trying out all the things you could add to them, I went through a phase of just buying liquid worts when I got the kegerator - but now am much enthused to learn the breakdown of beer as opposed to relying on kits so I've gotten a bit more serious - no more kits - it all starts with unhopped LME and I work from there.

I mostly prefer brewing more 'traditional beers' - more likely to drink a kolsch or a stout as opposed to a NEIPA. That said, I have dabbled in 'summer ales'. No doubt I will push the boat out a bit more one day, but am enjoying keeping things relatively basic at present.

What I do love about this craft is the ability to make all sorts of different flavours out of malt and hops. I am much more impressed by what one can do by making a beer taste like orange for example by fiddling with hops, and not by putting orange rind in it - but each to their own. I did make a decent chilli beer once, but that was the younger me - it doesn't interest me now.

 

 

[Maurice79]

I've been brewing for around 20 years now.  Tried it all now from kits, extract and and AG. 

Most beers these days lack the malt complexity to offset the heavy late hopping. These beers are best consumed fresh and can be average at best once the hop hit has faded.

While I'm not the anti wheat guy, its not the solution to all your problems.  Wheat has a place in brewing,  although its not your saviour and can easily be replaced to produce great beers.

AG Pales.  Ambers and Stouts do not need wheat to produce award winning beers.  For kit beers it aids head retention but does change the flavour profile.  

Anyone who believes you cant brew a kit n kilo brew that is drinkable, is not a good brewer.  Easily done, just research the coopers recipe resource.  Rocket, yeah, satellite of love!

 

 

 

[ozdevil]

3 minutes ago, Maurice79 said:

I've been brewing for around 20 years now.  Tried it all now from kits, extract and and AG. 

Most beers these days lack the malt complexity to offset the heavy late hopping. These beers are best consumed fresh and can be average at best once the hop hit has faded.

While I'm not the anti wheat guy, its not the solution to all your problems.  Wheat has a place in brewing,  although its not your saviour and can easily be replaced to produce great beers.

AG Pales.  Ambers and Stouts do not need wheat to produce award winning beers.  For kit beers it aids head retention but does change the flavour profile.  

Anyone who believes you cant brew a kit n kilo brew that is drinkable, is not a good brewer.  Easily done, just research the coopers recipe resource.  Rocket, yeah, satellite of love!

 

 

 

its a bit of an over kill  using a hop rocket for the average beer... i get it has its advantages specially using   hop flowers when transfering etc

I also happen to agree with you with extract brewing, its amazing  how far this is grown and how it is made so much easier  for the  many of extract brewers.

even the coopers dyi kits like the rotm   


They are pretty good value

[Maurice79]

1 minute ago, ozdevil said:

its a bit of an over kill  using a hop rocket for the average beer... i get it has its advantages specially using   hop flowers when transfering etc

I also happen to agree with you with extract brewing, its amazing  how far this is grown and how it is made so much easier  for the  many of extract brewers.

even the coopers dyi kits like the rotm   


They are pretty good value

Yes @ozdevil you are correct for the average beer,  but for no chill with fresh home grown hop flowers it cant be beat. 

[ozdevil]

3 minutes ago, Maurice79 said:

Yes @ozdevil you are correct for the average beer,  but for no chill with fresh home grown hop flowers it cant be beat. 

it would be the only time i would use a hop rocket is buy using hop flowers

do you loose much  wort in the process using  the hop rocket as i know hop flowers will absorb more  liquid the pellets

 

[Maurice79]

5 minutes ago, ozdevil said:

it would be the only time i would use a hop rocket is buy using hop flowers

do you loose much  wort in the process using  the hop rocket as i know hop flowers will absorb more  liquid the pellets

 

Flowers are better than pellets and can help to filter the wort.  Pellets can work but need rice hulls to aid filtration. Trust me I tried and learnt a lesson when it blocked. That's what brewing is all about. 

A good YouTube channel is David Heath. Good advice but mono tone voice and can speed to 1.5x.

 

[ozdevil]

5 minutes ago, Maurice79 said:

Flowers are better than pellets and can help to filter the wort.  Pellets can work but need rice hulls to aid filtration. Trust me I tried and learnt a lesson when it blocked. That's what brewing is all about. 

A good YouTube channel is David Heath. Good advice but mono tone voice and can speed to 1.5x.

 

i watch  his videos all the time very respected bloke David Heath sdpecially  when it comes to erquipment

I get why ya using the ho rocket mate     specially with filtration


Also seen a good one done by Gash  of the homebrew network with a hop rocket

good piece of equpment   specially using hop flowers

[BrewLizard]

8 hours ago, Maurice79 said:

Anyone who believes you cant brew a kit n kilo brew that is drinkable, is not a good brewer.  Easily done, just research the coopers recipe resource. 

The recipe resource is "kits and bits". "Kit and kilo" means literally a pre-hopped beer kit and a kilo of something; traditionally simple sugar. I use the naming convention as per your forum guru. Even if you don't use this naming convention, the categories were obvious in my post -- complete with bolding -- and obviously, not able to be comprehended by yourself and many others.

No one said kits and bits is undrinkable. Coopers have done an excellent job at marketing the technique and providing a wealth of resources to those wishing to pimp kit recipes into an endless variety of beers. Some of these are indeed very good, provided good fermentation practices, etc. It's a great stepping stone towards unhopped extract brewing.

Edited May 28, 2021 by BrewLizard
Bolding and underlying for emphasis

[Malter White]

9 hours ago, Maurice79 said:

Rocket, yeah, satellite of love!

This forum is the most informative in the www.

For 34 years I never knew the lyric was "satellite of love" to that song... until now.

I always thought it was "Rocket, yeah. Melodic mumble murmur, murmur". 

[MitchBastard]

I’m a full blown nerd brewer. Proud to admit it also. I monitor everything I possibly can on brew day and during fermentation. I adjust water profile based on beer style and  on the latest monthly council estimate. I adjust liquor to grist based on style and I make sure my recipes fail within style guidelines.  Don’t even get me started on pH that bad boy gotta be right too. From there I’ve made detailed brew sheets to follow on brew day that relate to my my recipes followed by a detailed fermentation log. Every time a sample comes out of the FV, a pH reading is done along with gravity, backed with a record of date and temperature record. Once a beer is kegged and pouring, tasting notes are then entered into said fermentation sheet, along with any improvements from a previous batch or just to cross reference anything I may have changed. 
i also listen to every beer podcast known to man.
 

last year I completed a certificate 3 in micro brewing and brewing management. 

that wasn’t enough, so from there.... I enrolled my self in the GCB (general certificate of Brewing) done through the IBD (the institute of brewing and distilling) and passed the exam last November. 
 

ive taken it one step further now and am fortunate to be an assistant brewer at an expanding Gold Coast Brewery. 
 

happy Saturday y’all. 

Edited May 28, 2021 by MitchBastard

[Norris!]

23 minutes ago, MitchBastard said:

 ive taken it one step further now and am fortunate to be an assistant brewer at an expanding Gold Coast Brewery. 
 

happy Saturday y’all. 

Your my hero. I have been tossing up taking the course but haven't pulled the trigger, I am waffling and the golden handcuffs got me pretty good, for me the obvious next step would be working in a brewery or making my own brewery, but then I am missing all the insider knowledge gained from doing and working in someone else's before screwing up my batches, worst case scenario.  But yeah, you are living my dream Mitch.

I Need to track my brews better, and probably monitor stuff better but at this point it is still a hobby. One more time, you are living my dream. Well done Mate!

[Classic Brewing Co]

33 minutes ago, MitchBastard said:

ive taken it one step further now and am fortunate to be an assistant brewer at an expanding Gold Coast Brewery. 

Congratulations Mitch, well done. 

[ozdevil]

36 minutes ago, MitchBastard said:

I’m a full blown nerd brewer. Proud to admit it also. I monitor everything I possibly can on brew day and during fermentation. I adjust water profile based on beer style and  on the latest monthly council estimate. I adjust liquor to grist based on style and I make sure my recipes fail within style guidelines.  Don’t even get me started on pH that bad boy gotta be right too. From there I’ve made detailed brew sheets to follow on brew day that relate to my my recipes followed by a detailed fermentation log. Every time a sample comes out of the FV, a pH reading is done along with gravity, backed with a record of date and temperature record. Once a beer is kegged and pouring, tasting notes are then entered into said fermentation sheet, along with any improvements from a previous batch or just to cross reference anything I may have changed. 
i also listen to every beer podcast known to man.
 

last year I completed a certificate 3 in micro brewing and brewing management. 

that wasn’t enough, so from there.... I enrolled my self in the GCB (general certificate of Brewing) done through the IBD (the institute of brewing and distilling) and passed the exam last November. 
 

ive taken it one step further now and am fortunate to be an assistant brewer at an expanding Gold Coast Brewery. 
 

happy Saturday y’all. 

Well Done Mitch   very jealous of you    i think to most of us it is only a dream  but your definately living the dream of us all..