Beerlust Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Hi Ben. You have me a little surprised with your stance on this one given previous comments about trusting written literature... A quick chill from boiling is necessary … to generate the Cold Break in the wort. A good cold break precipitates proteins' date=' polyphenols and beta glucans which are believed to contribute to beer instability during storage. A good cold break also reduces the amount of chill haze in the final beer.[/quote'] People believe all sorts of things just because they are written down. The only way you will kill off a lot of yeast at this stage is if you rehydrate into a dense/high specific gravity wort... Often the concentration of sugars in wort is high enough that the yeast can not draw enough water across the cell membranes to restart their metabolism. I'd suggest the two above quoted comments are related. In baking' date=' as in brewing, making a starter does actually make things faster. In baking we're talking about a heavy pinch of sugar that when combined with some water, yeast & a little bit of flour will show signs of a light froth (bubbling) on the surface in around 30-40mins. Then when combined with the full volume recipe (of a relative size) it will reduce the rise time for the dough. [/quote'] Having worked many years in a bakery and in various pizza bars I do not agree that it is any better. Nowhere in my retort did I say or suggest, "better". I did however infer, "faster". Note: Lallemand/Danstar does not recommend proofing after rehydration of their yeast because they have optimized their yeast's nutritional reserves for quick starting in the main wort. Proofing expends some of those reserves. Obviously they haven't brewed with their BRY-97 for sometime! What "nutritional reserves"?? Bahaha!! I used this yeast 3 times. Sprinkled dry the first time = FAIL. Re-hydrated in tepid water for the second time = FAIL. Used in a starter for the third time = FAIL. Each was fermented well inside the recommended temperature zone. The 3 packets I bought must have been special "Biafran" packets with no reserves whatsoever! Don't get me started on this stuff! I agree with your position of "best practice" Ben, but do I believe it's an etched in stone type of scenario? No I don't. I primarily use dry yeasts with my brewing & given some of my bad experiences/outcomes (like stated above) you couldn't blame a guy for looking at slightly alternative method(s) that offer a better consistency/reliability across the board. Cheers & good brewing, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 You have me a little surprised with your stance on this one given A previous comments about trusting written literature... . Yes but I provided more than one reference, and there are many more on the matter. Fermentis also state the same. I have read MANY sources. But no matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 ......snippedObviously they haven't brewed with their BRY-97 for sometime! What "nutritional reserves"?? Bahaha!! I used this yeast 3 times. Sprinkled dry the first time = FAIL. Re-hydrated in tepid water for the second time = FAIL. Used in a starter for the third time = FAIL. Each was fermented well inside the recommended temperature zone. The 3 packets I bought must have been special "Biafran" packets with no reserves whatsoever! Don't get me started on this stuff! ...snipped Ol' Lusty It is amazing how we get different perspectives on things. I do love BR-97' date=' and it has never failed me. Only out of respect did I not use it in the Mosaic Amber Ale. Cheers & Beers Scottie [i']Valley Brew[/i] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Hi Ben & Scottie. You have me a little surprised with your stance on this one given A previous comments about trusting written literature... . Hmm...plural me thinks... Lusty didn't make this up' date=' it is written in many how to books including John Palmer.[/quote'] Correct, it is written in books. Does not mean it is correct. but according to this article' date=' [/quote'] Must be true then, ...well you pretty much dared me to find more! Haha! P.S. Is "Scabby the Butcher Bird" still hangin' around? It is amazing how we get different perspectives on things. I do love BR-97' date=' and it has never failed me. Only out of respect did I not use it in the Mosaic Amber Ale.[/quote']Smart move. You probably increased the chances of a good beer by a factor of 10 by that choice alone Scottie! Haha! By the way, have you tried an early taster yet? Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I researched. All those other instances should point you to the idea that perhaps if I state something I think is true that maybe I have read up about it. And if anyone can provide facts to counter what I have stated then I will read into it too. Unlike you who appears to vehemently believe what they know to be true with no room to move. Again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Chill Out Dudes. Want to see you both here in the morning. There's different strokes for different folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porschemad911 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 To me there is a difference between rehydrating in water versus wort. Rehydrating in water is more like waking the yeast up and getting them ready for action, whereas rehydrating them in wort will wake them up, give them food to eat and start replication. So rehydration in wort would result in a bigger cell count in the pitch, and depending on the rehydration conditions, more esters produced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Having learned from instances past, I respectfully bow out of this conversation. Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 snippedIt is amazing how we get different perspectives on things. I do love BR-97' date=' and it has never failed me. Only out of respect did I not use it in the Mosaic Amber Ale.[/quote']Smart move. You probably increased the chances of a good beer by a factor of 10 by that choice alone Scottie! Haha! By the way, have you tried an early taster yet? snipped Hey BL I was thinking about untapping my Bramling Gold today and putting the Mosaic on, but it is only 3.4 weeks kegged. Maybe next Friday. Cheers & Beers Scottie Valley Brew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Hey BL I was thinking about untapping my Bramling Gold today and putting the Mosaic on' date=' but it is only 3.4 weeks kegged. Maybe next Friday.[/quote'] I got the feeling from earlier posts that the Bramling Gold brew wasn't exactly giving you goose bumps. Temptation, temptation. Decisions, decisions... Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porschemad911 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I am keen to try John's yeast propagating method but just can't summon the courage to saddle up. G'day Scottie, which method are you going to try? I've done 2 successfully - Ben's foolproof 'store some slurry from the yeast cake in a sanitized container in the fridge then pitch into the next brew' and a slightly more involved rinsing method. Both worked great for me when repitching but I do like the cool little jar(s) I get in the fridge with the rinsing method, with the clean layer of yeast on the bottom. A bit of extra effort to boil and cool water, store some diluted trub in a larger jar, let it settle then decant off into a smaller jar, but that's what I reckon I'll do to reuse yeast in the future. I'm on 3rd generation yeast with the current batch of saison I'm brewing. First repitch was storing some slurry from the yeast cake (complete with stray hop cone petals by mistake). Second repitch was from a rinsed harvest from the yeast cake. Took about 24 hours to reach high krausen on this batch, the gravity samples taste really good and the gravity is dropping nicely. Some people swear that yeast gets used to its environment and starts hitting its straps on the 3rd pitch, so I decided to test that theory. Cheers, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I really need to get back into that harvesting and rinsing of yeast for re-use. Especially now that I generally only use about one or two strains regularly, it would definitely be worth doing again. Just need to get a big jar, and get rid of some way old yeast in the medium jar, and go buy some small jars for storage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I am keen to try John's yeast propagating method but just can't summon the courage to saddle up. G'day Scottie' date=' which method are you going to try? John[/quote'] Hey John Check out https://www.coopers.com.au/coopers-forum/topic/6959/?page=7 Conversation starts at post 135 Cheers Scottie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 http://brulosophy.com/methods/yeast-harvesting/ is what I will be following I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Eh!L Posted February 6, 2015 Author Share Posted February 6, 2015 Hey Guys, I brew 40L batches which is then split into two FVs. I sometimes pitch different yeast strains in each FV for experimental purposes. Other times I want to brew both FVs with the same yeast. When I do this I most often make up a 2L starter on the stir plate with one packet of dry yeast and the last runnings from the MLT. These runnings can have a gravity of 1.010-1.025. I then split the starter in half and pitch 1L in each FV. I don't really know if this is good practice or not, but it seems to work for my purposes. I've never read up on this method. I just thought it made sense to double up the yeast supplies if you have the means to do it. my 2 cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 http://brulosophy.com/methods/yeast-harvesting/ is what I will be following I think. Already having erlenmeyers and a stir plate' date=' that sounds like a good, simple method which I'd be able to do without needing all different sized jars for rinsing. And you're still getting multiple uses from one pack of yeast, just at the other end of the brewing cycle. Might have to give this a go on the next batch. [img']happy[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Thought I had more Rosellas, but nope. I'll do a bigger one with the next crop - I get two. Recipe: Rosella Saison Brewer: Grumpy Recipe Specifications -------------------------- Batch Size (fermenter): 23.00 l Estimated OG: 1.065 SG Estimated Color: 20.8 EBC Estimated IBU: 32.2 IBUs Ingredients: ------------ 5.00 kg Pale Malt, Ale (Barrett Burston) (5.9 EB Grain 1 79.4 % 1.00 kg Wheat Malt (Barrett Burston) (3.0 EBC) Grain 2 15.9 % 0.25 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 30L (59.1 EBC) Grain 3 4.0 % 0.05 kg Roasted Malt (Joe White) (1199.7 EBC) Grain 4 0.8 % 25.00 g Magnum [13.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 29.6 IBUs 30.00 g Saaz [3.03 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 20.0 mi Hop 6 2.5 IBUs 200.00 g Rosella Cube Hop Mash Schedule: BIAB, Light Body Total Grain Weight: 6.30 kg ---------------------------- Mangrove Jacks Belgian Ale ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Amber10 21 litres 2.75 kg Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (3.9 EBC) Grain 1 59.3 % 0.68 kg Golden Promise UK (7 EBC) Grain 2 14.7 % 0.61 kg Munich Malt (17.7 EBC) Grain 3 13.1 % 0.30 kg Victory Malt (49.3 EBC) Grain 4 6.5 % 0.15 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (118.2 EBC) Grain 5 3.2 % 0.15 kg Chocolate Malt (689.5 EBC) Grain 6 3.2 % 10.00 g Magnum [12.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 7 14.4 IBUs 10.00 g Northern Brewer [8.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 8 5.1 IBUs 10.00 g Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 9 5.3 IBUs 10.00 g Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 10 2.9 IBUs 10.00 g Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Boil 1.0 min Hop 11 0.9 IBUs Nottingham OG 1.049, yeast pitched at 23 degrees after 20 minutes aeration. EBC 30.5 IBU 28.4 Cheers & Beers Scottie Valley Brew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antiphile Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Hey Scottie. That brew sounds like a ripper! I put in an order yesterday (that included a sack of Golden Promise because I've heard really good things from all you guys here). And I thought I was tossing up about a sack of Victory as well, but I just checked and it wasn't that one but Voyager Buloke (Veloria) Ale malt instead. I don't suppose any of you guys have used that one to give some feedback? It sounds like your brew is going to be very tasty and nicely hopped, as well as a very inviting colour. All the best with it! Philly the Pest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Hi Scottie. I like your malt bill on the recipe. Not that I give a whole lot of crap about IBU numbers anymore, but was interested in your hop schedule & associated numbers. 10.00 g Magnum [12.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 7 14.4 IBUs 10.00 g Northern Brewer [8.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 8 5.1 IBUs 10.00 g Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 9 5.3 IBUs 10.00 g Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 10 2.9 IBUs 10.00 g Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Boil 1.0 min Hop 11 4.5 IBUs (Steeped 20 mins) With the 1 minute addition' date=' did you add this separately in a separate boil, or hop tea or something? [img']unsure[/img] Because that is the only way that addition can add more IBU's than additions listed earlier in the boil. I also hope the end beer presents with enough bitterness at the glass. Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 The software I use - Beersmith - gives MORE IBUs from a 20 minute post boil steep than from a 5 minute boil. Scotties 1 minute boil has a 20 minute steep also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Forget Beersmith for a minute & let's look at this from a practical standpoint. You added a hop addition 1 minute prior to the end of the boil & it is supposedly continuing to add bitterness/IBU for the 20 min post boil steep & yet the additions prior to it are not? Whilst the temp remains at or above that 80°C temp ALL additions continue to add some level of bitterness/IBU. It isn't a selective process. Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 I don't know enough about hop chemistry to understand the calculation in the software. I would like to think that the software maker has more insight than I do. Obviously you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Hi Ben. I don't know enough about hop chemistry to understand the calculation in the software. I would like to think that the software maker has more insight than I do. Obviously you do. If anyone can supply a reason why any hop addition added later into a boil can possibly add more bitterness/IBU than an addition added earlier into that same boil' date=' then I'd by happy to read how that is possible, & learn from it. Brewing software is often very misleading against the [u']actual[/u] practical outcomes of brewing (IMHO). Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 All good. I find IBU predictions in Beersmith - the way I use it - tends to fit what I end up drinking. Perhaps the hop oils are isomerised - whatever that means - to the point where there is no more something blah bitterness conversion thingy,,,, Beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.