Brewing Equipment

[Shamus O'Sean]

13 hours ago, Aussiekraut said:

I like the idea of a thermo well. I've seen this a few times when people on YouTube are using Clawhammer systems. 

I never worried about the temperature being read at the bottom. It's not ideal but it usually does the job ok. However, the bottom screen on the BZ creates a little "barrier" between the bottom part, where the elements and the sensor are and that prevents the heat from the elements efficiently reaching the wort above it and while the heat distributor is supposed to help by channelling liquid from the top past the sides of the plates and making heat distribution more even. But because of the plates, there is a limited amount of cooler liquid reaching the bottom, so it just heats up what is there and when it reaches boiling temp, it turns off the element just seconds after turning it on. This is then exacerbated by hot-break collecting on top of the screen, which then acts a bit like an insulator as it reduces the flow of liquid even more. So the bottom stays nice hot and toasty, whereas the top of the wort is well below boiling point. This is where the external thermometer comes into the game as it reads the top or middle temp, depending on where the thermometer is and it is responsible for turning the elements on or off. This of course leads to superheated wort at the bottom and cooler on top. What I will try the next brew day is setting the target temperature for the boil to something like 105C, not using the external thermometer and then see if I can get a proper boil going. I may also reduce power to the elements a little and go for something like 2.4kW instead of the full 3.5kW. Maybe this leads to a more gentle heating.  

Also, I reckon give it a go without the deflector screen.  I get the thinking that it will force the recirculating hot liquor to the outside of the base and make more of it flow passed the element(s) in the base on its way to the dead-centre bottom outlet.  But my G30 and many other systems draw the liquid to a point in the vessel, so the liquid is not all passing over the elements.  For example the G30 outlet is in the side wall of the kettle, about 2cm above the base.  Directly opposite the outlet, the mash temp is probably lower.  But it still makes beer.  I think the deflector plate has a negative effect on the boil.

I bought a Brewzilla 35L perforated false bottom to use with my G30.  I hoped it would filter the hops a bit and minimise how much got to the G30's small filter.  I used it twice.  It made no difference to catching hops.  It failed that test because the force of the boil caused the false bottom to rock and roll and almost flip over.  Thus hops ended up underneath the false bottom anyway.  The false bottom was just sitting on legs rather than being locked into place.  Luckily I still use it as a false bottom, when mini-mashing in my 19 litre Big W pot, to keep the grain bag clear of the heat source at the bottom of the pot.

[Aussiekraut]

10 hours ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

Also, I reckon give it a go without the deflector screen.  I get the thinking that it will force the recirculating hot liquor to the outside of the base and make more of it flow passed the element(s) in the base on its way to the dead-centre bottom outlet.  But my G30 and many other systems draw the liquid to a point in the vessel, so the liquid is not all passing over the elements.  For example the G30 outlet is in the side wall of the kettle, about 2cm above the base.  Directly opposite the outlet, the mash temp is probably lower.  But it still makes beer.  I think the deflector plate has a negative effect on the boil.

I bought a Brewzilla 35L perforated false bottom to use with my G30.  I hoped it would filter the hops a bit and minimise how much got to the G30's small filter.  I used it twice.  It made no difference to catching hops.  It failed that test because the force of the boil caused the false bottom to rock and roll and almost flip over.  Thus hops ended up underneath the false bottom anyway.  The false bottom was just sitting on legs rather than being locked into place.  Luckily I still use it as a false bottom, when mini-mashing in my 19 litre Big W pot, to keep the grain bag clear of the heat source at the bottom of the pot.

I can see the plate making sense during mash. It forces liquid along the edges of the device and thus past the elements, instead of just running down the centre hole without hitting the elements. However during boil, it doesn't help and I think it may actually be shielding the heated area from the rest of the kettle as there is no recirculation. So the hot liquid stays at the bottom and only slowly radiates heat toward the top. This is why there is no proper boil going on as the heat transfer takes too long. In addition to that, the bottom screen the plate is attached to is covered by a layer of hot break and other debris, which could have an insulating effect. It would be interesting to see what happens if the bottom plate was completely removed but I guess it would clog the pump up even more as all the break and debris would go down the drain hole in the centre.

I think I'll give it another go without the plate and see what it does, then use it again next brew and compare the notes. All I know is that it drives me nuts every time I have to use the machine. 

[Hoppy81]

@Aussiekraut I've never owned a BZ, but i think they've gone quite overboard with the BZ4, why do you need so much tech in a pot? 

[Classic Brewing Co]

9 minutes ago, Hoppy81 said:

@Aussiekraut I've never owned a BZ, but i think they've gone quite overboard with the BZ4, why do you need so much tech in a pot? 

I agree, mine is simplified but still makes great beer, I still struggle with Brewfather but manage to get everything right & I still know when a beer has more kick depending on the grain bill & fermentables used.

Rapt & all of the other tech stuff will have to pass me by as I am happy to make a simple brew which all seem to enjoy.

I am not knocking it all as I love technology but there would definitely be more study involved.

[Hoppy81]

1 minute ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

I agree, mine is simplified but still makes great beer, I still struggle with Brewfather but manage to get everything right & I still know when a beer has more kick depending on the grain bill & fermentables used.

Rapt & all of the other tech stuff will have to pass me by as I am happy to make a simple brew which all seem to enjoy.

I am not knocking it all as I love technology but there would definitely be more study involved.

I have the 3 RAPT fermentation chambers, it's an awesome bit of kit. I purchased a couple of RAPT pills when they first came out but reading about them, there is just too many issues with them, so i never bothered using them, and reading about these BZ4 issues with over temperature issues like @Aussiekraut is having issues with, it just makes the task harder.

[Classic Brewing Co]

26 minutes ago, Hoppy81 said:

I have the 3 RAPT fermentation chambers, it's an awesome bit of kit. I purchased a couple of RAPT pills when they first came out but reading about them, there is just too many issues with them, so i never bothered using them, and reading about these BZ4 issues with over temperature issues like @Aussiekraut is having issues with, it just makes the task harder.

Your entire set-up is well & truly advanced & your beers are awesome, but I suppose all the bells & whistles are necessary to maintain a high standard & consistent beer.

Probably my next brewery addition will be the Brewzilla 35L Boiler Extension Kit | Extra 12L | KegLand

At least then I can punch out a bit more volume.

Edited June 14 by Classic Brewing Co

[Red devil 44]

Some new tap handles from the UK (magnetic so they are interchangeable) for the Kegerator, ordered a few different labels etc, going to order more for the keezer.

They look good.

[Classic Brewing Co]

1 hour ago, Red devil 44 said:

Some new tap handles from the UK (magnetic so they are interchangeable) for the Kegerator, ordered a few different labels etc, going to order more for the keezer.

They look good.

Nice one RD, were they a good price?

[Shamus O'Sean]

6 hours ago, Red devil 44 said:

Some new tap handles from the UK (magnetic so they are interchangeable) for the Kegerator, ordered a few different labels etc, going to order more for the keezer.

They look good.

Nice.  If you haven't got a couple of nice brews in kegs already, it looks like you are planning some classics in the near future.

[Red devil 44]

14 hours ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

Nice one RD, were they a good price?

$180 Aussie dollars all up. 

[Classic Brewing Co]

1 minute ago, Red devil 44 said:

$180 Aussie dollars all up. 

That's pretty good, they look impressive.

[Red devil 44]

23 hours ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

That's pretty good, they look impressive.

Yeah I’m pleased with them @Classic Brewing Co

[Red devil 44]

On 6/21/2024 at 10:19 PM, Shamus O'Sean said:

Nice.  If you haven't got a couple of nice brews in kegs already, it looks like you are planning some classics in the near future.

@Shamus O'Sean Certainly a Hoegaarden Clone, I have brewed an AG version mid last year, so it’s time for another one I think.

 

[iBooz2]

On 6/10/2024 at 1:06 PM, Tricky Micky said:

Slightly off topic, so I apologise AK. I notice recently the  Nano SS 70 litre brew kettles have been discontinued and seem to be being  replaced by either a 50 or 95 litre Volume vessel. How sad! 

@Tricky Micky, just because it's full to the brim capacity is 95 L (talking Nano system here) doe not mean you have to do big volume brews.  You can do single 22 L cube brews but why would you when it takes exactly the same amount of labour time to do double 22 L cube brews like I do with my 70 L Nano system.  Lately I have tweaked my recipes to do double cube 44 L batches of higher gravity wort and then using top-up water to make the total batch size 54 L for my 58 L SS Kegmenters.  A 4 L head-space in the Kegmenter is fine as I ferment low and slow anyway and this results in 3 x 19 L kegs at kegging time albeit with a bit more head-space in each keg to help with quicker carbonation, all this for just one brew day.

With a 95 L Nano system you may be able to do triple 22 L cube batches or even quadruple 22 L cube batches (using top up water) therefore getting four brew days for the labour effort of one brew day. 

Having read about the troubles and idiosyncrasies caused by BZ4 I am certainly glad I went with the Nano.  All my parts are replaceable unlike the BZ3 (unsure of BZ4), its easy to clean and the mash temp is usually only 1 C different from the inky temp via the thermowell at the bottom and a hand held temp probe in the top of the mash.  Very happy with my choice.  A 95 L Nano would have been better for me but 70 L is my happy place ATM.

[iBooz2]

On 6/15/2024 at 8:53 AM, Hoppy81 said:

@Aussiekraut I've never owned a BZ, but i think they've gone quite overboard with the BZ4, why do you need so much tech in a pot? 

+1 Overkill might have killed this product.  Why stress yourself when there are easier ways and systems.

[kmar92]

1 hour ago, iBooz2 said:

@Tricky Micky, just because it's full to the brim capacity is 95 L (talking Nano system here) doe not mean you have to do big volume brews.  You can do single 22 L cube brews but why would you when it takes exactly the same amount of labour time to do double 22 L cube brews like I do with my 70 L Nano system.  Lately I have tweaked my recipes to do double cube 44 L batches of higher gravity wort and then using top-up water to make the total batch size 54 L for my 58 L SS Kegmenters.  A 4 L head-space in the Kegmenter is fine as I ferment low and slow anyway and this results in 3 x 19 L kegs at kegging time albeit with a bit more head-space in each keg to help with quicker carbonation, all this for just one brew day.

With a 95 L Nano system you may be able to do triple 22 L cube batches or even quadruple 22 L cube batches (using top up water) therefore getting four brew days for the labour effort of one brew day. 

Having read about the troubles and idiosyncrasies caused by BZ4 I am certainly glad I went with the Nano.  All my parts are replaceable unlike the BZ3 (unsure of BZ4), its easy to clean and the mash temp is usually only 1 C different from the inky temp via the thermowell at the bottom and a hand held temp probe in the top of the mash.  Very happy with my choice.  A 95 L Nano would have been better for me but 70 L is my happy place ATM.

I agree with you @iBooz2 on the 70l Nano, I have the same system and it has been very good so far. I have never had any temp control or overshoot problems and more recently I have been using a Kegland temp controller instead of the supplied Inkbird, and that has worked really well after some fine tuning with the PID function. I am not sure though that all of the parts are replaceable with the 70l Nano, the basket of the Nano system is possibly the most easy part to be damaged and I am not sure if the original baskets for my system are still available, seems like CPB have phased out those parts?

Yeah with you on the BZ4, starting to hear many problems from people that are using that unit, especially the temp problems with maintaining consistent temps and also overshooting target temperatures, @Aussiekraut has detailed the problems that he has encountered and I have also seen many other reports of similar problems.

[iBooz2]

46 minutes ago, kmar92 said:

I agree with you @iBooz2 on the 70l Nano, I have the same system and it has been very good so far. I have never had any temp control or overshoot problems and more recently I have been using a Kegland temp controller instead of the supplied Inkbird, and that has worked really well after some fine tuning with the PID function. I am not sure though that all of the parts are replaceable with the 70l Nano, the basket of the Nano system is possibly the most easy part to be damaged and I am not sure if the original baskets for my system are still available, seems like CPB have phased out those parts?

Yeah with you on the BZ4, starting to hear many problems from people that are using that unit, especially the temp problems with maintaining consistent temps and also overshooting target temperatures, @Aussiekraut has detailed the problems that he has encountered and I have also seen many other reports of similar problems.

So long as you don't use the CP supplied SS stirring paddle you will be fine re not damaging the mesh basket @kmar92.  I think I already advised you just to use the standard Coopers plastic spoon instead.  I have a TIG welder and can weld SS so if mine gets damaged should be able to repair it easy.  If reasonably care taken the only enemy should be electrolysis / corrosion / metal fatigue.

Hell if I can fix mine then it will be a 95 L Nano system for me hands down.

[jennyss]

On the Homebrew Network I read about a 'refractometer'. Then I found this article https://byo.com/article/refractometers/#:~:text=Refractometers are most often used,gravity from a finished beer!

Does anybody in the Coopers Community use a refractometer in preference to a hydrometer?

[Shamus O'Sean]

1 hour ago, jennyss said:

On the Homebrew Network I read about a 'refractometer'. Then I found this article https://byo.com/article/refractometers/#:~:text=Refractometers are most often used,gravity from a finished beer!

Does anybody in the Coopers Community use a refractometer in preference to a hydrometer?

Hey Jenny,

I used to use one on all grain brew days because you want to take specific gravity readings at several stages of a brew day.  They only need a few drops of wort to take a measurement.  However, mine was a cheaper one.  Around $25 I think.  It was not very accurate.  I still always used to use a Coopers hydrometer for my Original Gravity reading as it was the most important on brew day.

Now I use a SmartRef.  It is a very accurate electronic specific gravity measurer.  It works in a similar way to a refractometer - light shining through a wort sample.  Quite expensive, but I treated myself at Christmas a few years ago.  I use the SmartRef for my OG and Final Gravity measurement.  But I also double check the FG with a Coopers hydrometer.  Both methods are usually within 1.001 of each other.

[Aussiekraut]

On 7/2/2024 at 6:48 AM, jennyss said:

On the Homebrew Network I read about a 'refractometer'. Then I found this article https://byo.com/article/refractometers/#:~:text=Refractometers are most often used,gravity from a finished beer!

Does anybody in the Coopers Community use a refractometer in preference to a hydrometer?

I use a refractometer on brew days but still leave the FG reading to the hydrometer mainly because you need to correct refractometer readings due to the alcohol in the finished beer.  Mine is just an el cheapo to give me an idea of where I am heading. I'd like to get something better but they are a little costly.