What's in Your Fermenter 2023?

[BlackSands]

On 10/16/2023 at 7:33 PM, BlackSands said:

A 20 litre BIAB PA - with an unexplained efficiency of... 104%??  eh? 

• 3kg GF Ale Malt
• 400g GF Supernova Malt
• 500g LME
• 25g Pacific Jade @30 min
• 20g Amarillo @10 min
• 30g Amarillo (Steep) 20 min
• 50g Nelson DH
• Voss

Expected OG = 1.044 at my usual BIAB 65-70% efficiency, so (for the second time now) I'm at a a bit of a loss to expain the crazy high OG? (1.064).  First thought was maybe it's because the LME had somewhow not mixed in thoroughly and settled low in the FV, but I did add it toward the end of the boil and gave it a pretty darn good stir... mixing pretty thoroughly.  I brew a concentrated wort which I then make up to the final volume, which would further add to the mixing of the late boil addition of LME, so it should surely be well dissolved...    ?

Anyway,  at the end of the day, who cares? It'll still be beer!  

 

 

 

Ok, this is getting really weird!   Same issue again with todays brew: mashed at around 65º, though strike was initially a little too high resulting in the mash starting at 72ºC, but I got it down fairly quickly - in a matter of minutes, simply by adding cold water.   I gather anything above 75º can denature enzymic action after 10 minutes or so.   So, the mystery: target OG=1.038, measured OG = 1.074  !!!!   How is that even possible? 

(and yes, hydrometer calibration is spot on). 

 

20 litre BIAB:

• 3kg GF Pilsner Malt
• 200g GF Munich Malt
• 200g GF Sour Grapes
• 25g Pacific Jade @40 min
• 25g Amarillo @10 min
• 25g Amarillo (Steep)
• 5g Gypsum
• Voss

[Cheap Charlie]

hmmm, worthy of a a couple of split batch brews to see if you can replicate the same result

[Aussiekraut]

1 hour ago, BlackSands said:

 

Ok, this is getting really weird!   Same issue again with todays brew: mashed at around 65º, though strike was initially a little too high resulting in the mash starting at 72ºC, but I got it down fairly quickly - in a matter of minutes, simply by adding cold water.   I gather anything above 75º can denature enzymic action after 10 minutes or so.   So, the mystery: target OG=1.038, measured OG = 1.074  !!!!   How is that even possible? 

(and yes, hydrometer calibration is spot on). 

 

20 litre BIAB:

• 3kg GF Pilsner Malt
• 200g GF Munich Malt
• 200g GF Sour Grapes
• 25g Pacific Jade @40 min
• 25g Amarillo @10 min
• 25g Amarillo (Steep)
• 5g Gypsum
• Voss

72C isn't a problem. It's great for lower-ABV beers. It just means longer chain sugars are created, which the yeast can't eat. This leads to a fuller body, less alcohol and more residual sweetness but shouldn't have any impact on the OG. FG yes but not OG. How what you see can be, is beyond me TBH.

 

 

[BlackSands]

55 minutes ago, Aussiekraut said:

 How what you see can be, is beyond me TBH.

It'll be interesting to see where the FG lands.  Also, when it finally comes time to consume the beer, given it's potentially going to be around 8% ABV, assuming OG is correct then I guess I'll pretty know after the first glass!    

[Tone boy]

28 minutes ago, BlackSands said:

It'll be interesting to see where the FG lands.  Also, when it finally comes time to consume the beer, given it's potentially going to be around 8% ABV, assuming OG is correct then I guess I'll pretty know after the first glass!    

Just a query, if you brew a concentrated wort, are you taking the measurement after adding the extra water? Is that water mixed in thoroughly? Is the sample taken from the bottom through a tap?

[Pale Man]

About to dump this in. I'll dry hop with Cascade and Superdelic. Gotta love these FWKs

 

[Classic Brewing Co]

3 minutes ago, Pale Man said:

About to dump this in. I'll dry hop with Cascade and Superdelic. Gotta love these FWKs

 

They are great,  I have brewed that one twice & really enjoyed it.

[Pale Man]

25 minutes ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

They are great,  I have brewed that one twice & really enjoyed it.

The only issue is pouring it in, I just cant master it. I tried it your way but still spilt it.

Why cant they go back to the plastic container.

[Shamus O'Sean]

5 hours ago, BlackSands said:

hydrometer calibration is spot on

First thing I would do is try another hydrometer.  The one you are using may be spot on in distilled water at 20°C, but might go awry once it is measuring sugar water.  The OG 1.074 does not look possible.

[Classic Brewing Co]

19 minutes ago, Pale Man said:

The only issue is pouring it in, I just cant master it. I tried it your way but still spilt it.

Why cant they go back to the plastic container.

That's odd, I find it really easy, I just lay it on the kitchen bench with the tap exposed & close to the edge & have the fermenter in a floor trolley with a milk crate on top & turn the tap on. For the last bit I just tip it in.

I can't find the photo but I did post it before.

 

[Back Brewing]

32 minutes ago, Pale Man said:

The only issue is pouring it in, I just cant master it. I tried it your way but still spilt it.

Why cant they go back to the plastic container.

PM hold the FV up to the tap when you pull the plug that way you can lower the FV down and direct the flow to where you want it as its emptying 

Edited November 4, 2023 by Back Brewing

[Pale Man]

8 minutes ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

That's odd, I find it really easy, I just lay it on the kitchen bench with the tap exposed & close to the edge & have the fermenter in a floor trolley with a milk crate on top & turn the tap on. For the last bit I just tip it in.

I can't find the photo but I did post it before.

 

Turn the tap on? theres no tap, just a pull out plug.

[Pale Man]

16 minutes ago, Back Brewing said:

PM hold the FV up to the tap when you pull the plug that way you can lower the FV down and direct the flow to where you want it as its emptying 

What tap?????   or am I missing something.

[Back Brewing]

37 minutes ago, Pale Man said:

What tap?????   or am I missing something.

The spout that comes out of the box has a little plug in it when you pull the plug have the FV up close and then lower the FV to the floor ensuring the liquid goes where you want it to

[Pale Man]

2 minutes ago, Back Brewing said:

The spout that comes out of the box has a little plug in it when you pull the plug have the FV up close and then lower the FV to the floor ensuring the liquid goes where you want it to

Yeah no worries. It's not a tap though is it. If you could turn it on and off like a tap it would be great. When I pull the plug out I always manage to spill some and my hands get in the way of the flow.

[Back Brewing]

Just now, Pale Man said:

Yeah no worries. It's not a tap though is it. If you could turn it on and off like a tap it would be great. When I pull the plug out I always manage to spill some and my hands get in the way of the flow.

Why don't you try it this way it's easy as and you control it watch from thev4 minute mark

 

[Pale Man]

17 minutes ago, Back Brewing said:

Why don't you try it this way it's easy as and you control it watch from thev4 minute mark

 

Not the same FWK I use.

[Back Brewing]

3 minutes ago, Pale Man said:

Not the same FWK I use.

Yeah mate but same principle just take it out of the box snip the corner and pour away

I found the same as you did with the plug I got it on my hands and had to hold it out of the way next fwk I'm going just like the vid 

Edited November 4, 2023 by Back Brewing

[Pale Man]

1 minute ago, Back Brewing said:

Yeah mate but same principle just take it out of the box snip the corner and pour away

I found the same as you did with the plug I got it on my hands and had to hold it out of the way next fwk I'm going just like the vid 

Yep the penny has dropped. Just watched the bit when he poured it. Now makes sense. Thanks fella for your help really appreciate it.

[Back Brewing]

3 minutes ago, Pale Man said:

Yep the penny has dropped. Just watched the bit when he poured it. Now makes sense. Thanks fella for your help really appreciate it.

[BlackSands]

3 hours ago, Tone boy said:

Just a query, if you brew a concentrated wort, are you taking the measurement after adding the extra water? Is that water mixed in thoroughly? Is the sample taken from the bottom through a tap?

Yeah... this is the FG after the top-up water is added.  It reckon it gets mixed quite well when the water is poured in - which I do quite vigourously in an effort to add in as much O2 as possible.  The sample is taken from the tap.  Last time this happened I wondered if the 500g LME addition in that particular batch had pooled at the bottom of the FV (though I really did stir that in quite well).  However, no LME in this batch so it's clearly not that!  

And... the thing is, my process hasn't actually changed in several years.  I've done countless brews using this method - and usually get reasonably close to expected OG.  It's only this last two batches that have given these crazy high OG's.  

However,  having said all that... taking a sample from the top would of course remove any doubt.

[BlackSands]

1 hour ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

First thing I would do is try another hydrometer.  The one you are using may be spot on in distilled water at 20°C, but might go awry once it is measuring sugar water.  The OG 1.074 does not look possible.

I agree the OG just doesn't make any sense.  I can't imagine how a hydrometer could possibly misread at higher gavities though? It's just a simple glass bulb with some weights in it.  What could go wrong?  Still, something must be off somewhere so at this stage I guess anything is possible! 

[kmar92]

2 hours ago, Pale Man said:

Yep the penny has dropped. Just watched the bit when he poured it. Now makes sense. Thanks fella for your help really appreciate it.

That is the method that I use with the FWK bladders, it works well. I have also found that trying to use that plug/tap thing is just a disaster, for me anyway.

The grip a corner and hold it up high, and then use scissors, and then point it into the fermenter is the best method I have found.

[Shamus O'Sean]

1 hour ago, BlackSands said:

I agree the OG just doesn't make any sense.  I can't imagine how a hydrometer could possibly misread at higher gavities though? It's just a simple glass bulb with some weights in it.  What could go wrong?  Still, something must be off somewhere so at this stage I guess anything is possible! 

Yep, very weird.  How about your scales?  But they would have to be out by about 200% because you need over 6kg of grain to get an OG around 1.074.  How about emailing Gladfield to see if anybody else has reported weird numbers with their Pilsner Malt recently.

How did the previous brew with its high OG taste?  Alcohol-y?  Fusel?  Did it knock you around unexpectedly?  How about hop balance?

[BlackSands]

17 minutes ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

Yep, very weird.  How about your scales?  But they would have to be out by about 200% because you need over 6kg of grain to get an OG around 1.074.  How about emailing Gladfield to see if anybody else has reported weird numbers with their Pilsner Malt recently.

How did the previous brew with its high OG taste?  Alcohol-y?  Fusel?  Did it knock you around unexpectedly?  How about hop balance?

Brew shop milled the grain, and I know it sure wasn't 6kg! However, there was a fair bit of 'flour' in this one, but I can't see that having too much impact.  Funny you should mention emailing GF, I actually did a search to see if anyone had reported this kind of weirdness with their malts and visited their website in the hope of finding more clues.   Also thought of contacting the brew shop too.  

As for the previous beer... tastes fine, quite nice actually, and there's no obvious issues that I can tell - tastes pretty much as an PA should.  If it is indeed a higher ABV than expected it's not really obvious enough such that I could tell - my senses aren't tuned enough to really pick the difference between the expected 4.5% and the OG-implied 6.5%.

I'm looking forward to the next brew day... I'm really curious to see if this weirdness persists or if things return to the normailty of the last few years!