Bulk priming, more harm than good?

[Mikes15]

For a good fair while Ive been bulk priming by transfering into a second Fv with a calulated amount of hydrated suger in before bottling but after a bit of consideration an loose reaserch im wondering if this process introduces to much oxygen exposure an potential for contamination VS the benifts it might give, thoughts?

[DavidM]

42 minutes ago, Mikes15 said:

wondering if this process introduces to much oxygen exposure

What happens if you get too Much Oxygen exposure in the mix ??

[Classic Brewing Co]

13 minutes ago, DavidM said:

What happens if you get too Much Oxygen exposure in the mix ??

I sorta know the answer but here is a more detailed answer.

https://beersmith.com/blog/2015/06/18/why-oxygen-is-bad-in-your-home-brewed-beer/

[DavidM]

That's a good read,

Thanks

[Aussiekraut]

1 hour ago, Mikes15 said:

For a good fair while Ive been bulk priming by transfering into a second Fv with a calulated amount of hydrated suger in before bottling but after a bit of consideration an loose reaserch im wondering if this process introduces to much oxygen exposure an potential for contamination VS the benifts it might give, thoughts?

That depends on how you transfer to the 2nd vessel. If you syphon it out or use the tap with a long hose attached and there is no splashing, you'll be fine. But I never bothered with a 2nd vessel. I gently stirred the dextrose/water solution into a cold crashed FV. The sediment at the bottom is nice and compacted from the CC and a gently stir won't oxygenate it. I then lifted the FV onto the bench and left it for 15 minutes or so and all was fine. I never had any issues with "uneven" carbonation.

[Tricky Micky]

I had bulked primed all of my K&K with bits since I started brewing almost 19 months ago. Never bothered with a secondary vessel for the process. +1 to what Aussiekraut has said re; just using the primary fermenter. Be careful when you stir if using the primary FV so as not to disturb the trub and stir gently enough so as not to introduce any oxygen. It'll be fine.

 

[Mikes15]

11 hours ago, Aussiekraut said:

That depends on how you transfer to the 2nd vessel. If you syphon it out or use the tap with a long hose attached and there is no splashing, you'll be fine. But I never bothered with a 2nd vessel. I gently stirred the dextrose/water solution into a cold crashed FV. The sediment at the bottom is nice and compacted from the CC and a gently stir won't oxygenate it. I then lifted the FV onto the bench and left it for 15 minutes or so and all was fine. I never had any issues with "uneven" carbonation.

I use a pipe on the FV tap into the bottom of the 2nd then give it a slow stir & bottle from that with a wand on the tap. Even then I have had uneven priming once or twice.

bulking into a CC's FV is an interesting method, I would never have thought that would work without disturbing the trub, a commando dry hop so that might not work so well!

[Otto Von Blotto]

It doesn't cause any issues if you do it properly without any splashing or excessive agitation. I did numerous batches using the transfer method before I got kegs and it worked fine. 

The yeast should mop up any oxygen anyway during the fermentation of the priming sugar but you still want to reduce it getting in as much as possible.

[Oldbloke]

I bulk prime. But just do it in the FV. I don't transfer. Easy peasy & no issues. 

[Spursman]

On 3/25/2022 at 6:46 AM, Mickep said:

I had bulked primed all of my K&K with bits since I started brewing almost 19 months ago. Never bothered with a secondary vessel for the process. +1 to what Aussiekraut has said re; just using the primary fermenter. Be careful when you stir if using the primary FV so as not to disturb the trub and stir gently enough so as not to introduce any oxygen. It'll be fine.

 

Me too. I've found that ccing is vital to really consolidate the trub and stirring with an action like paint mixing (lifting the wort from near the trub up to the top). This action does three things:

1. Removes any chance of stratification 

2. Virtually eliminates oxygenation 

3. Does not disturb trub.

[BlackSands]

On 3/26/2022 at 11:12 AM, Spursman said:

Me too. I've found that ccing is vital to really consolidate the trub and stirring with an action like paint mixing (lifting the wort from near the trub up to the top). This action does three things:

1. Removes any chance of stratification 

2. Virtually eliminates oxygenation 

3. Does not disturb trub.

One thing I had recurring issues with when bulk priming in the primary was stratification and subsequently very uneven carbonation across the batch.  What appeared to be happening was the priming solution was settling out in a layer when added hot (perhaps due to differing density) - even though it was gently stirred and allowed to disperse for 30 minutes or so.  Perhaps I should have been more generous with the stirring.  Anyway,  I now cool my priming solution right down to fridge temp first before adding and that seems to have completely solved the problem.   

Edited March 30, 2022 by BlackSands

[Tricky Micky]

4 minutes ago, BlackSands said:

Anyway,  I now cool my priming solution right down to fridge temp first before adding and that seems to have completely solved the problem.   

That's what I found as well BS. Make sure the mix is well cool before adding - seemed to do the trick.

[Aussiekraut]

8 hours ago, BlackSands said:

One thing I had recurring issues with when bulk priming in the primary was stratification and subsequently very uneven carbonation across the batch.  What appeared to be happening was the priming solution was settling out in a layer when added hot (perhaps due to differing density) - even though it was gently stirred and allowed to disperse for 30 minutes or so.  Perhaps I should have been more generous with the stirring.  Anyway,  I now cool my priming solution right down to fridge temp first before adding and that seems to have completely solved the problem.   

Coming to think of it, I had always prepared my priming solution whilst I was still preparing bottles and kept it in the fridge. Maybe that is why I never had those "uneven carbonation" issues.

[stquinto]

12 hours ago, BlackSands said:

One thing I had recurring issues with when bulk priming in the primary was stratification and subsequently very uneven carbonation across the batch.  What appeared to be happening was the priming solution was settling out in a layer when added hot (perhaps due to differing density) - even though it was gently stirred and allowed to disperse for 30 minutes or so.  Perhaps I should have been more generous with the stirring.  Anyway,  I now cool my priming solution right down to fridge temp first before adding and that seems to have completely solved the problem.   

Interesting observation mate, I had dissolved the sugar into hot water, put it in a sanisited FV and drained the beer onto it with a tube on the bottom of the other FV's tap to avoid splashes. I used a different FV as I didn't cold crash but now I've got a fridge I probably could.

Some have been unevenly carbonated and your explanation makes sense (I didn't bother cooling it first). I assumed that the fact that the beer came on top of the sugar solution it would automatically mix itself, but I hadn't taken into account the layer of hot water.

Bit like in the swimming pool when you hit a warm patch, and you'd rather not have... 

Edited March 31, 2022 by stquinto

[Space]

I now bulk prime using a second FV and transfer through the pipe attached to the tap.  It is so much less hassle than bottle priming.

[JimInCollie]

For those who cold crash:

What if you add your dissolved priming sugar to your fermenter and gently stir BEFORE you cold crash?

Cold crashing will settle the trub and at the same time slow yeast activity almost to a standstill. Distribution should be even this way, especially after siphoning or decantation.

[Shamus O'Sean]

12 hours ago, JimInCollie said:

For those who cold crash:

What if you add your dissolved priming sugar to your fermenter and gently stir BEFORE you cold crash?

Cold crashing will settle the trub and at the same time slow yeast activity almost to a standstill. Distribution should be even this way, especially after siphoning or decantation.

Kind of makes sense.  I would go the next step and add the dissolved sugar DURING cold crash, once it is at 1°C.  Adding the sugar, even just before cold crash, might see some fermentation of that sugar before the temperature got low enough to stop it.

[jackgym]

On 3/24/2022 at 5:43 PM, Mikes15 said:

For a good fair while Ive been bulk priming by transfering into a second Fv with a calulated amount of hydrated suger in before bottling but after a bit of consideration an loose reaserch im wondering if this process introduces to much oxygen exposure an potential for contamination VS the benifts it might give, thoughts?

For me it would be having to wash an extra vessel.

[Classic Brewing Co]

2 minutes ago, jackgym said:

For me it would be having to wash an extra vessel.

I did it once but wouldn't bother again, for me it is easier just to bottle in the normal way, I find it a breeze if you are organised & have it planned out.