Sanitising Bottles

[Mr Polar]

Hi all,

Newbie here, I have just put down my first ever brew in a Coopers Kit. What I am wanting to know is the best wat sanitise my bottles for use.

I have bought some Morgan's lo suds and Morgan's Sanitiser.  Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[ozdevil]

all you need to do is give a good general clean  with ya morgans lo sud and rinse out   maybe in clean bucket   

then in either a Embty  fermenter or a Sanitised bottling bucket  fill with  your no rinse sanitiser

that will help

what i would be purchasing is a vinator as well as a bottling tree  they will help you and save you alot of time
 

 

[Journeyman]

1. New bottles shouldn't need sanitising. Quick rinse should be fine.

2. Most of us rinse after use, as soon as feasible, to rinse out the yeast remnants and beer coating the sides. Drain upside down, cap and store till next brew.

3. I don't know Morgan's sanitiser but if it is no-rinse, get a spray bottle and make up to recommended dilution, then when next brew ready, give a quick spray inside, around the top and cap then drain on bottle tree or upside down milk crate - something that lets the bottle sit upside down without the top touching anything.

4. Bottle the next brew.

[Classic Brewing Co]

1 hour ago, Journeyman said:

1. New bottles shouldn't need sanitising. Quick rinse should be fine.

2. Most of us rinse after use, as soon as feasible, to rinse out the yeast remnants and beer coating the sides. Drain upside down, cap and store till next brew.

3. I don't know Morgan's sanitiser but if it is no-rinse, get a spray bottle and make up to recommended dilution, then when next brew ready, give a quick spray inside, around the top and cap then drain on bottle tree or upside down milk crate - something that lets the bottle sit upside down without the top touching anything.

4. Bottle the next brew.

Yeah, I agree with @Journeyman  Keep it simple & improvise with what you may have around home, for years I was using old freezer/fridge racks-baskets, turned upside down it is amazing how many bottles you can drain non them. As he says as soon as you empty a bottle rinse it out thorughly, I find by doing this your bottles only need a quick rinse & spray of sanitiser & you are ready to bottle. I got lucky when my neighbour decided to go all out a buy up a Brew kit & all the accessories. He only drinks Corona & wanted to replicate it, he made two brews & wasn't impressed, said it tasted like  & passed on the equipment to me, FV, Capper, Tree etc - all he wanted was a carton of Corona. 

[Tricky Micky]

Sodium Percarbonate for pre wash of the bottles and FV:

Either Woolies or Coles have this at about $3.50

 

 

 

 

And Stellarsan 500 ml sanitiser for approx 9.95. It's on special at Kegland for $6.45 at the minute.

https://www.kegland.com.au/phosphoric-acid-blend-sanitiser-500ml-starsan.html

Use the Sodium Perc for washing your bottles and FV prior to sanitizing and use the Stellarsan (No rinse ) sanitiser to sanitise the bottles,  FV, and everything else which comes into contact with the wort on the day of your brew. That includes bottle caps, spoons, bowls, FV taps, scissors or whatever you are planning on using. 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2021 by Mickep

[terminal2k]

3 hours ago, Mr Polar said:

Morgan's Sanitiser

That's what came with my starter kit from LHBS so its what I've been using. 

2 hours ago, ozdevil said:

vinator

I never knew that's what they were called, i've been calling it a bottle sprayer. i'm very technical. OP, get one of these and a tree and bottling isn't painful at all.

[ozdevil]

52 minutes ago, terminal2k said:

I never knew that's what they were called, i've been calling it a bottle sprayer. i'm very technical. OP, get one of these and a tree and bottling isn't painful at all.

either did i  until 12 odd months ago when i resumed homebrewing and thought yeah this is an easy thing to use and makes light work

a couple of good  presses and bottle is sanitised 

I also put my bottle caps in the vinator or bottle sprayer    sanitises both  and ya dont have to worry about sanitising each cap then as they are all in the saniter already

[mkinadl]

a few phrases to look out for - some of which are in this thread;

- Sodium Percarbonate: added to many laundry powders which are 'BAD' for homebrew since most add soaps/perfumes;

- 'Morgan's lo suds and Morgan's Sanitiser': never heard of them but there are 2 main types of cleaners/sanitisers for homebrew (which are DIFFERENT to a steriliser/disinfectant):

1.) 'alkaline' based detergent/cleaner - the alkaline cleaner is an 'over night' soaker that cleans biodegradable stuff like beer crud but it does not 'wash off' the dregs/scum/oil/etc from the items;
2.) 'non-rinse' sanitiser - after the alkaline 'clean' (or a wash/clean with dishwashing liquid & good rinsing/drying) the non-rinse sanitiser kills bacteria/germs/etc that can make beer taste like vinegar - but be wary of scratches that can harbour bacteria where a simple soak may not be enough;

....also, diluted bleach or boiling are ways to sanitise but require either much rinsing or may cause damage due to high heat.

[Popo the Reprobate]

6 hours ago, mkinadl said:

- Sodium Percarbonate: added to many laundry powders which are 'BAD' for homebrew since most add soaps/perfumes;

As long as this is well rinsed, it does not pose a problem. Look for the product that has the highest percentage of sodium perc as an active ingredient. 

You can get straight sodium perc or PBW from homebrew shops. This is the better option - but the supermarket stuff can do the job.

[Tricky Micky]

On 9/24/2021 at 11:42 PM, mkinadl said:

Sodium Percarbonate: added to many laundry powders which are 'BAD' for homebrew since most add soaps/perfumes;

I can only say that from my own experience using the cheap supermarket Sodium Percarbonate product it seems to work perfectly fine as a wash for the FV and bottles etc as long as rinsed thoroughly. I have had no issues with any odors from any perfumes or soaps included in the Coles or Woolies home brand SP products. Zero zip nada. 

On 9/24/2021 at 11:42 PM, mkinadl said:

non-rinse' sanitiser - after the alkaline 'clean' (or a wash/clean with dishwashing liquid & good rinsing/drying) the non-rinse sanitiser kills bacteria/germs/etc that can make beer taste like vinegar - but be wary of scratches that can harbour bacteria where a simple soak may not be enough;

Again only from my own experience I've had no such problem with the no rinse sanitiser Stellarsan. 

[Classic Brewing Co]

8 minutes ago, Mickep said:

I can only say that from my own experience using the cheap supermarket Sodium Percarbonate product it seems to work perfectly fine as a wash for the FV and bottles etc as long as rinsed thoroughly. I have had no issues with any odors from any perfumes or soaps included in the Coles or Woolies home brand SP products. Zero zip nada. 

Again only from my own experience I've had no such problem with the no rinse sanitiser Stellarsan. 

Yep I concur being using SS for years, no problemo. 

[iBooz2]

On 9/22/2021 at 12:38 PM, Mr Polar said:

Hi all,

Newbie here, I have just put down my first ever brew in a Coopers Kit. What I am wanting to know is the best wat sanitise my bottles for use.

I have bought some Morgan's lo suds and Morgan's Sanitiser.  Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Welcome to the forum.

I think you will find the Morgan's sanitiser is actually Sodium Percarbonate it's just recommended to be used much more diluted than it is when using SP as a cleaner.

It is a non rinse sanitiser only if allowed to drain and dry completely.  I have used it a few times before switching over to the Stellersan type products as you do not have to wait for them to completely drain and dry so saves heaps of time.

Edited September 26, 2021 by iBooz2

[Classic Brewing Co]

2 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

I think you will find the Morgan's sanitiser is actually Sodium Percarbonate it's just recommended to be used much more diluted than it is when using SP as a cleaner.

Al I was curious myself, I had a bottle in stock & have attached photo, Cheers.

Edited September 26, 2021 by Classic Brewing Co

[Panther Branch Brewing]

On a side note, I do mine in batches over a few days, 10 to 15 at a time. Sitting down to clean ~50 bottles in one pass isn't a fun time.

I fill mine with sanitiser and let them sit 20 minutes. I then dump and cap with a screw on cap then store them upside down. I use mostly plastic bottles.. Guess you could cover them with cling film until ready to use.

I use a product we have in the states called One-Step. I think it's mostly sodium percarbonate. Been using it for years and haven't had a problem. Cleans you coffee pot and coffee mugs to look like new. also. 

[Oldbloke]

You could just use "white king" or "domestos". Provided they are not scented. It's chlorine. Same as in our water supply. About a tea spoon to 10 litres of water would be enough. Soak for about an hour and if your worried a quick rinse. 

[Classic Brewing Co]

2 minutes ago, oldbloke said:

You could just use "white king" or "domestos". Provided they are not scented. It's chlorine. Same as in our water supply. About a tea spoon to 10 litres of water would be enough. Soak for about an hour and if your worried a quick rinse. 

Some do but I won't you have to rinse it like hell to get rid of any trace as it can hang around, also it can affect head retention. I don't mind paying the extra for no-rinse sanitiser.

But it is up to everyone to do whatever they want.

[Oldbloke]

I must admit. Never used it for beer.  But it is often used fir other purposes. Eg water tanks.

[Cee]

On 10/22/2021 at 4:04 PM, Classic Brewing Co said:

Some do but I won't you have to rinse it like hell to get rid of any trace as it can hang around, also it can affect head retention. I don't mind paying the extra for no-rinse sanitiser.

But it is up to everyone to do whatever they want.

Do you mean like the Stellar San sanitizer?

[Shamus O'Sean]

1 hour ago, Cee said:

Do you mean like the Stellar San sanitizer?

Yep. Stellar San is a no-rinse sanitiser.

[Cee]

1 hour ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

Yep. Stellar San is a no-rinse sanitiser.

ok I may forego the white king then and just use some of my volumes of stellarsan to clean up 2nd hand kegs

Even if the risk is minimal of bleach remnants in my fv, I have stellarsan so why bleach if it's no better

What a timely topic! Thanks, universe!

[Frosty Chop]

1 hour ago, Cee said:

ok I may forego the white king

White King AKA Bleach or Sodium Hypochlorite will kill anything and everything including yeast. I've only ever used it to Nuke an infected fermenting vessel and it did work for that but then I rinsed, soaked then aired out the FV for several days before using it again.

For sanitising bottles (I only use glass) all I do is rinse them 3 or 4 times as soon as I can after they are empty, drain them until they are dry, store with something covering them.

Then on bottling day use a funnel and put 1/4 cup of starsan or any of the other acid based no rinse sanitising solutions into one, shake then give the mouth of the bottle a wipe as I'm pouring it into the funnel for the next bottle. After about 6 or 8 bottles use some fresh sanitiser and continue.
Before priming the bottles with carb drops (I'm lazy and they work) pour out the little bit of sanitiser that has settled in the bottom and bottle them up.

I've never had a problem using this method. Not sure about the plastic bottles tho, I've never used them.

[Cee]

Hm ok

Am I confusing cleaning with sanitizing here?

Old 2nd hand Fv - first to clean it up, when it is old and from someone else's usage, to be sure to be sure - Stellarsan or not Stellarsan for this job? Would Stellarsan be an adequate replacement for bleach? Or is Stellarsan best used a different way?

eg: I always use a Stellaran wash/spray before any brew anyway, on my FV and spoons and the dog and everything within a 5 mile radius

[Shamus O'Sean]

8 hours ago, Cee said:

ok I may forego the white king then and just use some of my volumes of stellarsan to clean up 2nd hand kegs

Even if the risk is minimal of bleach remnants in my fv, I have stellarsan so why bleach if it's no better

What a timely topic! Thanks, universe!

 

5 hours ago, Cee said:

Hm ok

Am I confusing cleaning with sanitizing here?

Old 2nd hand Fv - first to clean it up, when it is old and from someone else's usage, to be sure to be sure - Stellarsan or not Stellarsan for this job? Would Stellarsan be an adequate replacement for bleach? Or is Stellarsan best used a different way?

eg: I always use a Stellaran wash/spray before any brew anyway, on my FV and spoons and the dog and everything within a 5 mile radius

Now I understand why you were asking, I can answer properly.  Now, this is my advice and there are other ways of doing things.

• Bleach sanitises and also cleans
• Sodium Percarbonate cleans (and can sanitise in the right dilution, but I do not use it for that, so will not offer advice)
• Stellar San / Starsan / Phosphoric Acid all sanitise

Old kegs, old fermenters, anything that has had an infection or unwanted reaction (eg. diastaticus):

• Bleach is the go for me.  5ml per litre.  Soak overnight.  Hot water rinse.  Dry.
• I also give them a dose of Stellar San just before use.

My regular fermenters/bottles/kegs where I know what has been in them, but I've got hard to remove residue:

• Sodium Percarbonate (Oxysan/Napisan [which is usually around 30% Sodium Percarbonate] about 1 teaspoon per litre / Pure Sodium Percarbonate about 1 teaspoon per 3 litres). Soak overnight.  Hot water rinse. Dry.
• I also give them a dose of Stellar San just before use.

Like you, and as you can see from my notes, I love Stellar San (and its relatives) for no-rinse sanitising.  My family say I am like Yosemite Sam when I am brewing, except I am armed with sanitiser spray bottles instead of a pair of Colts.  I'll get you, you good-for-nothing varmint bacteria.

Hope this helps.

 

 

[Cee]

46 minutes ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

 

Now I understand why you were asking, I can answer properly.  Now, this is my advice and there are other ways of doing things.

• Bleach sanitises and also cleans
• Sodium Percarbonate cleans (and can sanitise in the right dilution, but I do not use it for that, so will not offer advice)
• Stellar San / Starsan / Phosphoric Acid all sanitise

Old kegs, old fermenters, anything that has had an infection or unwanted reaction (eg. diastaticus):

• Bleach is the go for me.  5ml per litre.  Soak overnight.  Hot water rinse.  Dry.
• I also give them a dose of Stellar San just before use.

My regular fermenters/bottles/kegs where I know what has been in them, but I've got hard to remove residue:

• Sodium Percarbonate (Oxysan/Napisan [which is usually around 30% Sodium Percarbonate] about 1 teaspoon per litre / Pure Sodium Percarbonate about 1 teaspoon per 3 litres). Soak overnight.  Hot water rinse. Dry.
• I also give them a dose of Stellar San just before use.

Like you, and as you can see from my notes, I love Stellar San (and its relatives) for no-rinse sanitising.  My family say I am like Yosemite Sam when I am brewing, except I am armed with sanitiser spray bottles instead of a pair of Colts.  I'll get you, you good-for-nothing varmint bacteria.

Hope this helps.

 

 

 

I use Oxysan as my goto "regular" cleaner as well, but for these vats with unknown history I wasn't sure if to use something more brutal. 

Definitely helps - thank you. For sharing your way, and explaining why it's your way.  Also the amounts - that all important info we sometimes forget to share

 

Another thread of great info

 

PS Now I am having visions of Lemmy with steam pouring from his ears, levitating in frustration, "ooooooo I hates that backateria"

[Malter White]

And if you think a bottle tree is too expensive (they are), here is my el cheapo substitute. If you can't find a suitable basket I reckon an inverted milk crate would work too.