Carbonation just not right (bottling).

[Worthog]

On 1/21/2021 at 5:36 AM, selz13 said:

Hi All,

Have been getting stuck into my second brew finally as it definetly needed the 4 weeks, worth the wait as they are bloody good lol; however, I am finding the 750 Pet bottles are low on carbonation and found that with my first brew as well. This brew I botteled some stubbys and they were perfect it just seems to be the Coopers plastic Pet bottles that are not. This time when bottling I made sure that all carbonation drops were whole and not broken ones and so forth, yet I think this time it's worse than my first brew even though I really made sure was all consistant with both drops. 

Having this problem twice in a row should I change to manual sugar measuring for carbonation instead of drops? Any help, advice and/or experiances would be awesome and thanks in advance

Given you place the correct amount of "sugars" into your PET, stubbie or bottle, and they are sealed (they usually all are well sealed), I always found the problem to be time/temperature.

You may not be aware that some of your bottled batch are dropping below 18c at stages during conditioning. Say, overnight.

I had an issue once with cool spots in my conditioning fridge/box which caused variable results.

Time @ temp is the key.

[Classic Brewing Co]

I have really never had a problem with PET bottles & I have had at least 4 different brands, treated properly they are fine.

I also think that experimenting with different brands & white sugar vs carb drops  you develop a total control on how the brew will finish.

Apart from the normal intelligent way to actually store, condition the bottles there shouldn't be a problem.

Anyway, that is my opinion.

Cheers.

 

[Stickers]

my first go at bulk priming following @Mickep's advice earlier in the thread. started with 7g per litre of white sugar - 170g in 300ml of water. next week's batch has 180g/350ml so we'll see how that compares. this one is ok for a first attempt at it but it needs a little more sugar in future.

[Tricky Micky]

17 hours ago, Stickers said:

my first go at bulk priming following @Mickep's advice earlier in the thread. started with 7g per litre of white sugar - 170g in 300ml of water. next week's batch has 180g/350ml so we'll see how that compares. this one is ok for a first attempt at it but it needs a little more sugar in future.

Hey Stickers hope all goes well with it. Because of my tiny brain I'm adding 10 grams per liter (Love the Fizz) It's so much easier on the brain when I'm doing the calculations for how much sugar to use. 

[stquinto]

Just remembered why I don’t use carb drops - I wasn’t sure if I’d done one of the rows of bottles before capping. Guess what? I forgot

Edited May 24, 2021 by stquinto

[stquinto]

Forgot the photo too

[stquinto]

Still drank it though

[jackgym]

I get a flat bottle now and then (2 carb drops per PET bottle).

I get a hint when unscrewing the cap and there's no little hiss.

So instead of tilting the glass, I upend the bottle and tip it in quickly trying to create a head... 

Alas, flat is flat.

[Classic Brewing Co]

7 hours ago, stquinto said:

Still drank it though

My Brother did that with an entire batch so he simply opened them up dropped in some sugar & he said in 2 weeks they were fine to drink.

[Classic Brewing Co]

3 hours ago, jackgym said:

I get a flat bottle now and then (2 carb drops per PET bottle).

I get a hint when unscrewing the cap and there's no little hiss.

So instead of tilting the glass, I upend the bottle and tip it in quickly trying to create a head... 

Alas, flat is flat.

For what it's worth I started experimenting with white sugar & carb drops & quite honestly the bottles with the sugar are more carbonated than the drops.

[bennysbrew]

Just buy one of those three pronged measuring scoops, has 330ml, 500ml and 750ml scoops. Use about 10cents worth of sugar, or $4 on the drops..

[Shamus O'Sean]

12 hours ago, CLASSIC said:

For what it's worth I started experimenting with white sugar & carb drops & quite honestly the bottles with the sugar are more carbonated than the drops.

I packaged the Coopers Hazy IPA nearly 2 weeks ago into a keg and a few bottles.  I did some PET's with two carb drops plus 1/4 teaspoon of sugar.  I will be opening one this weekend.  It will be interesting to see the carbonation level.  In previous beers, I found the 2 carb drops just not enough.

[Classic Brewing Co]

1 minute ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

I packaged the Coopers Hazy IPA nearly 2 weeks ago into a keg and a few bottles.  I did some PET's with two carb drops plus 1/4 teaspoon of sugar.  I will be opening one this weekend.  It will be interesting to see the carbonation level.  In previous beers, I found the 2 carb drops just not enough.

I agree Shamus the sugar has more punch than the carb drops, comparing 2 drops to the equivalent of sugar just isn't the same, I have never used both in 1 bottle, well not yet anyway.

[jackgym]

8 hours ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

I packaged the Coopers Hazy IPA nearly 2 weeks ago into a keg and a few bottles.  I did some PET's with two carb drops plus 1/4 teaspoon of sugar.  I will be opening one this weekend.  It will be interesting to see the carbonation level.  In previous beers, I found the 2 carb drops just not enough.

It seems that the more time in storage, my bottles become over-carbonated (2 carb drops).

For the first 15 or so of a 30 PET batch pour with a nice head, then after that the head overflows the glass.

I was thinking of using just 1 drop in the last 15 of a batch ?

On saying that, my first bottle is a month old before I open it.

[Shamus O'Sean]

6 hours ago, jackgym said:

It seems that the more time in storage, my bottles become over-carbonated (2 carb drops).

For the first 15 or so of a 30 PET batch pour with a nice head, then after that the head overflows the glass.

I was thinking of using just 1 drop in the last 15 of a batch ?

On saying that, my first bottle is a month old before I open it.

Varying carbonation like that does not sound right.  

I have had the same and believe it was diastaticus.  Most likely from a reused Saison yeast.  I ended up nuking all my gear and progressively all my bottles with a bleach sanitisation cycle.

[Classic Brewing Co]

On the subject of Carbonation, in this case Coopers Longneck bottles Carb Drops vs White Sugar.

Over the last week or so I have been drinking ( only because I was thirsty )  a batch I did 1/2 each with the above & without a doubt the bottles primed with sugar are far more advanced & hold a head better than any of the ones with carb drops. For that reason I have decided to drink the sugar ones first & leave the carb drop ones longer to mature.

I am hoping this will work.

[jackgym]

16 hours ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

Varying carbonation like that does not sound right.  

I have had the same and believe it was diastaticus.  Most likely from a reused Saison yeast.  I ended up nuking all my gear and progressively all my bottles with a bleach sanitisation cycle.

I have a new bottle cleaning regimen now so we'll see how that goes.

[Shamus O'Sean]

2 hours ago, jackgym said:

I have a new bottle cleaning regimen now so we'll see how that goes.

Sounds good.  Just note that if it is diastaticus, Starsan/Stellarsan/etc will not kill it.  Idophor will and so will bleach.

[jackgym]

30 minutes ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

Sounds good.  Just note that if it is diastaticus, Starsan/Stellarsan/etc will not kill it.  Idophor will and so will bleach.

Got it, thanks Shamus.

[iBooz2]

14 hours ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

Sounds good.  Just note that if it is diastaticus, Starsan/Stellarsan/etc will not kill it.  Idophor will and so will bleach.

Yep have to agree with Shamus here.  I had dozens of PET lagers sitting around at room temps for a few months and still not carbonated enough so time does not make a big difference if you have no infections like diastaticus they still will be flat.  Diastaticus will make them seemed like they are carbing up properly after long time but its a false god so beware.

If you think of your PET bottles as balloons you will understand why they don't carb up properly with just 2 x carb drops.  They may be close at the dosage but sorry no cigar.

If they have over carbed with just the 2 x carb drops then definitely diastaticus.  I am currently drinking a Czech Pils bottled early August last year in PET with just 2 x carb drops and its as flat as.  Only drinking it to get rid of them as nearly run out of other better home brew choices.

With glass bottles maybe ok with just 2 x carb drops but PET requires a bigger dose of sugar to force the PET balloons to push the carb into the beer.

Cheers - AL

 

[jackgym]

23 hours ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

Sounds good.  Just note that if it is diastaticus, Starsan/Stellarsan/etc will not kill it.  Idophor will and so will bleach.

What measure would I mix the bleach at in cold water Shamus?

[Shamus O'Sean]

59 minutes ago, jackgym said:

What measure would I mix the bleach at in cold water Shamus?

I used about half a PET capful in each PET bottle. So somewhere between 1.5-2 capfuls per litre.

[Classic Brewing Co]

9 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

PET requires a bigger dose of sugar to force the PET balloons to push the carb into the beer.

I have to agree with you AL, the PET bottles I have done with white sugar are a standout from the ones with carb drops, they seem to have more consistency. 

Although there are exceptions, stout for example is more forgiving.

[Tone boy]

11 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

I am currently drinking a Czech Pils bottled early August last year in PET with just 2 x carb drops and its as flat as. 

Just wondering Boozer, could you crack open the bottle, drop a dose of sugar in and recap the bottle, then leave 2 weeks somewhere warm? Would they carb up again? If the yeast is still viable I guess they would. Might be an option rather than drinking flat beer...

[Classic Brewing Co]

48 minutes ago, Tone boy said:

Just wondering Boozer, could you crack open the bottle, drop a dose of sugar in and recap the bottle, then leave 2 weeks somewhere warm? Would they carb up again? If the yeast is still viable I guess they would. Might be an option rather than drinking flat beer...

My brother has done that with stubbies that were sitting for 18 months & he said they turned out OK, I did it once years ago & found by inverting the bottles on a rotation basis worked also.