Carbonation just not right (bottling).

[Aussiekraut]

13 minutes ago, Mickep said:

BS, I was having the same issue some time back. A little variation here and there with the carbonation between the bottles.  I was initially allowing about an hour for the sugar mix to sit in the FV but somebody here possibly @Aussiekraut (apologies if it was somebody else) tipped me off to allow a longer period for the mix to properly disperse in with the wort. I now allow about 2 hours and I've def noticed the difference. My bottles are now all evenly carbed. It seems to have done the trick.

May have been me, not sure  

I pour the primer in slowly and gently stir it through, then lift the FV up onto the bench before I get set up for sanitising bottles and filling them. I guess it sits there for about an hour or one and a half before the first bottle. Just counting on gravity and fluid dynamics to mix it through won't work well  After a cold crash, the sediment layer is compact enough to not be disturbed easily and the little bits that get stirred up will settle again before I start bottling. I haven't noticed any variations in carbonation so far. My method isn't perfect but it seems to work for me. 

 

[Tricky Micky]

25 minutes ago, Aussiekraut said:

1 hour ago, Mickep said:

BS, I was having the same issue some time back. A little variation here and there with the carbonation between the bottles.  I was initially allowing about an hour for the sugar mix to sit in the FV but somebody here possibly @Aussiekraut (apologies if it was somebody else) tipped me off to allow a longer period for the mix to properly disperse in with the wort. I now allow about 2 hours and I've def noticed the difference. My bottles are now all evenly carbed. It seems to have done the trick.

May have been me, not sure  

I pour the primer in slowly and gently stir it through, then lift the FV up onto the bench before I get set up for sanitising bottles and filling them. I guess it sits there for about an hour or one and a half before the first bottle. Just counting on gravity and fluid dynamics to mix it through won't work well  After a cold crash, the sediment layer is compact enough to not be disturbed easily and the little bits that get stirred up will settle again before I start bottling. I haven't noticed any variations in carbonation so far. My method isn't perfect but it seems to work for me. 

Thanks AK, I'm pretty much following the same procedure as you. I definitely allow about 2 hours now.  I also make sure the sugar mix is stirred in well also. I agree the sediment at the bottom of the FV after a 4-5 day CC is well entrenched and compacted at the bottom so it makes the stirring process a little easier. At 10 grams of sugar per litre my beers are lets just say - nice and fizzy 

I'm lucky I use Plazzies and don't store the bottles for extended periods. 

[Cheap Drunk]

I'm another using the PET bottles and two carb drops and getting very disappointing carbonation. Latest is a toucan in the bottle for 3 1/2 weeks and very flat. Will be switching to another method.

[Classic Brewing Co]

1 minute ago, Cheap Drunk said:

I'm another using the PET bottles and two carb drops and getting very disappointing carbonation. Latest is a toucan in the bottle for 3 1/2 weeks and very flat. Will be switching to another method.

This discussion has come up before, all of the brands of Carb Drops that are available ( retail only, I know you can order online ) I have used Coopers, Morgans, Mangrove Jacks, Brew Cellar, Mr Beer & all of them that I have randomly weighed are too inconsistent. Some weigh 3 gms  some weigh 4gms - I know this is not a lot but in a Longneck you could end up 2grams short or 2 grams over.

I used to think white sugar was for the tight bottom people & it was inferior, however I have been experimenting lately with measures of it in different bottling sessions & will be interested to see the difference. I have always used 2 x Carb Drops in my 450gram Grolsch bottles & 500 gram glass bottles, but as you say @Cheap Drunk  some of the PET's & Glass 750ml bottles don't seem to cut it as you want a bit more pizazz.

Having said that I have never bothered to bulk prime, so who knows.

[Classic Brewing Co]

Well I may have an answer, here's a Wal's Pale Ale Country Brewer,  that I used 8grams of white sugar in the Coopers 750ml Long Neck, carbed up nicely, at first taste I got the sugar but it levels out a bit when you find the bitterness aftertaste, I will go back to the drawing board with Carb Drops !!

Cheers.

[lickedthestamp]

17 hours ago, CLASSIC said:

This discussion has come up before, all of the brands of Carb Drops that are available ( retail only, I know you can order online ) I have used Coopers, Morgans, Mangrove Jacks, Brew Cellar, Mr Beer & all of them that I have randomly weighed are too inconsistent. Some weigh 3 gms  some weigh 4gms - I know this is not a lot but in a Longneck you could end up 2grams short or 2 grams over.

I used to think white sugar was for the tight bottom people & it was inferior, however I have been experimenting lately with measures of it in different bottling sessions & will be interested to see the difference. I have always used 2 x Carb Drops in my 450gram Grolsch bottles & 500 gram glass bottles, but as you say @Cheap Drunk  some of the PET's & Glass 750ml bottles don't seem to cut it as you want a bit more pizazz.

Having said that I have never bothered to bulk prime, so who knows.

Hey @CLASSIC - I noticed your scales only display to 1 gram increments. This means that the carb drops you are measuring could be a lot more consistent in weight than you think. If one measures 3.4g and another measures 3.6g, then it's likely your scales are rounding to the nearest whole gram - so 3g & 4g. You probably need to get a set of scales that does 0.1g increments to get the most accurate picture

[Barramullafella]

I have/am using 6gm white sugar in 740ml PET's and have plenty of bubble. Will not go back to using drops as this seems fine for my beers.

[Classic Brewing Co]

9 minutes ago, Barramullafella said:

I have/am using 6gm white sugar in 740ml PET's and have plenty of bubble. Will not go back to using drops as this seems fine for my beers.

I am bottling Classic Bitter 23l today & I have 3 different size bottles;

Coopers Longneck x 750ml   PET x 740ml    Grolsch x 450ml

I am going to use white sugar & carb drops & record it all for comparison later.

[Barramullafella]

4 minutes ago, CLASSIC said:

I am bottling Classic Bitter 23l today & I have 3 different size bottles;

Coopers Longneck x 750ml   PET x 740ml    Grolsch x 450ml

I am going to use white sugar & carb drops & record it all for comparison later.

That will be a good exercise Classic. I just bottled 34 x 740 PET from Coopers Draught + BE2 and had a bit over 25lts in the FV by looks of number of bottles done. ABV is about 4.1% . 

[Shamus O'Sean]

1 hour ago, CLASSIC said:

I am bottling Classic Bitter 23l today & I have 3 different size bottles;

Coopers Longneck x 750ml   PET x 740ml    Grolsch x 450ml

I am going to use white sugar & carb drops & record it all for comparison later.

It will be interesting to hear about the results of your comparisons.  As an aside, I think that neither carb drops or sugar should make your beer any sweeter.  They should fully ferment to CO2 and alcohol.  If you notice sweetness in a beer, it should be from the other ingredients.  For example, maybe your Wal's Pale Ale Country Brewer had Maltodextrin in the recipe.  Maltodextrin and some other sweet ingredients do not ferment, but leave body and sweetness.

[Classic Brewing Co]

19 minutes ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

It will be interesting to hear about the results of your comparisons.  As an aside, I think that neither carb drops or sugar should make your beer any sweeter.  They should fully ferment to CO2 and alcohol.  If you notice sweetness in a beer, it should be from the other ingredients.  For example, maybe your Wal's Pale Ale Country Brewer had Maltodextrin in the recipe.  Maltodextrin and some other sweet ingredients do not ferment, but leave body and sweetness.

Hi Marcus,

I have noticed a difference in the Coopers Pale Ale & Wal's Pale Ale, the Country Brewer brand is sweeter. I think you are right as I was blaming the carb drops/sugar.

I would rate that as a better Pale Ale as I added POR.

I was going to do 8 x Grolsch with 2 x carb drops - 6 with 1 x full measuring  scoop of white sugar.  ( I realise this is not recommended but never had a bomb )

1/2  Coopers Longnecks with 2 x carb drops - 1/2 with 1 x full measuring  scoop of white sugar.

1/2 PE bottles with 2 x carb drops - 1/2 with 1 x full measuring  scoop of white sugar.

I will record all of this so I can compare afterwards.

Cheers.

[Classic Brewing Co]

All bottled as above, I will make notes of the results, looking forward to see how it works out.

[Stickers]

@Mickep what's your ratio of sugar and water and technique if you don't mind me asking

[Tricky Micky]

13 hours ago, Stickers said:

@Mickep what's your ratio of sugar and water and technique if you don't mind me asking

Stickers, my carb ratio is 10 grams of white sugar per liter  (FV volume 24 liters) at least for my lagers but I have to admit I'm using 9 grams per liter for my ales. I do like the carbonation.  

I mix the sugar into about 300-400mls of pre boiled water stir and jobs done. I cool that mix and then add to the primary FV and stir thoroughly. I would then allow this to sit for about 1 and 1/2 to 2 hours and then bottle as normal.

I have to stress I use the PET bottles so I have no concerns about creating glass bombs with that level of carbonation.

I also don't tend to store the beer for extended lengths of time. I've tried 8mgs p/l - 9mgs p/l and 10mgs p/l and I have to say that I notice a slight difference between each ratio. 

With the method above I don't seem to get any variation in carbonation levels between bottles. This may not be perfect but it's working for me so far. 

[Stickers]

8 hours ago, Mickep said:

I have to stress I use the PET bottles so I have no concerns about creating glass bombs with that level of carbonation.

appreciated and thank you. i'm using PETs so I'll give this a go with 8g per litre and assess from there

[Barramullafella]

On 4/5/2021 at 12:35 PM, CLASSIC said:

Hi Marcus,

I will record all of this so I can compare afterwards.

Cheers.

Howdy Classic just wondering if ya have sampled the beers for comparison yet?

[Classic Brewing Co]

Hi @Barramullafella  Not yet, probably need to wait just a tad longer but I will & post the results as I am curious myself. If it works out that the sugar wins, that will eliminate something off my shopping list. I will keep you posted, probably next week. Cheers.

[Barramullafella]

Bottled my OS Real Ale yesterday ending up with 33 x 740 PET's.  Used a rounded teaspoon of white sugar in each bottle as this is proving to be good carbonation for my liking. Now to sit patiently, and drink the other brews while waiting for this batch to condition.  

[Tone boy]

1 hour ago, Barramullafella said:

Now to sit patiently

The hardest part of home brewing 

[Classic Brewing Co]

6 hours ago, Barramullafella said:

Bottled my OS Real Ale yesterday ending up with 33 x 740 PET's.  Used a rounded teaspoon of white sugar in each bottle as this is proving to be good carbonation for my liking. Now to sit patiently, and drink the other brews while waiting for this batch to condition.  

Yes then comes the wait, that's why I am glad I have invested in multiple fermenters as I can produce a big variety of beers in what seems like a shorter waiting period.

[jackgym]

On 4/3/2021 at 10:08 AM, Mickep said:

I bulk prime my beer in the primary FV - it's easy as. I would not go back to sugar drops, cubes, or anything else it's gold at least for me. I like my fizz and because I'm using the Plazzie PET 740ml bottles I don't have to worry as much about the CO2 levels as I would if the beer were stored in glass. I'm adding anywhere between 8mgs and 10 mgs of sugar per liter. Approx 3.6 -3.8 Vol CO2.

Thanks to @Lab Cat for the heads up.  Love it!

Can you supply a little more info on bulk priming in the primary FV please?

[Worts and all]

3 hours ago, jackgym said:

Can you supply a little more info on bulk priming in the primary FV please?

Simple @jackgym. Boil 1/2 litre of water,dissolve your priming sugar in it boil a minute or so to sterilize, then cool. I use dextrose at 6-8 grams per litre. Others prefer a little more, you will need to experiment.I get excellent results, with great heads. I regard a beer with no or poor head as a failure., and find those levels quite satisfactory- the lower level for dark ales and the higher for pales. Pour the solution into the vessel and stir with your long spoon, leaving the sediment undisturbed. I don’t CC but find that 14 days in the fermenter gives a good solid sediment ,not easily disturbed  by careful stirring. Like others, I like to give it an hour or so before bottling. It never fails for me. Good luck!

[jackgym]

8 hours ago, Worts and all said:

Simple @jackgym. Boil 1/2 litre of water,dissolve your priming sugar in it boil a minute or so to sterilize, then cool. I use dextrose at 6-8 grams per litre. Others prefer a little more, you will need to experiment.I get excellent results, with great heads. I regard a beer with no or poor head as a failure., and find those levels quite satisfactory- the lower level for dark ales and the higher for pales. Pour the solution into the vessel and stir with your long spoon, leaving the sediment undisturbed. I don’t CC but find that 14 days in the fermenter gives a good solid sediment ,not easily disturbed  by careful stirring. Like others, I like to give it an hour or so before bottling. It never fails for me. Good luck!

Thanks Worts. I've been having a problem with over carbonation using 2 carb drops in PET bottles.

I was afraid to just use one per bottle and undercarb. (Kit beer).

This may change with my new extract brew, will know in a week or so.

[ozdevil]

28 minutes ago, jackgym said:

Thanks Worts. I've been having a problem with over carbonation using 2 carb drops in PET bottles.

I was afraid to just use one per bottle and undercarb. (Kit beer).

This may change with my new extract brew, will know in a week or so.

you can also use this calculator   https://www.brewersfriend.com/beer-priming-calculator/  to calculate your priming sugars

it wil  make your bulk priming alot easier

[jackgym]

1 hour ago, ozdevil said:

you can also use this calculator   https://www.brewersfriend.com/beer-priming-calculator/  to calculate your priming sugars

it wil  make your bulk priming alot easier

Thanks OZDEVIL for being so helpful.