King Ruddager Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 Got a couple of brews in a row with maybe a sliiiiiiight butterscotch flavour? I blamed the first one on the crystal malt I used, but not so sure now. Both had US05 pitched at LOW temperatures. Can that produce diacetyl? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ruddager Posted May 30, 2020 Author Share Posted May 30, 2020 Actually that’s a lie. One had S04, the other US05. Two packets, pitched dry into cold wort Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris! Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 (edited) 43 minutes ago, King Ruddager said: Both had US05 pitched at LOW temperatures. Can that produce diacetyl? Yes. If the brew was packaged too early that could be a reason, a lack of a diacteyl rest. From what I read about it, English yeasts are known to toss diacteyl. What was the process? https://byo.com/article/brewing-science-controlling-diacetyl/ Edited May 30, 2020 by Norris! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSands Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 (edited) Do a search... there's info out there on an easy test you can do that uses your nose as the 'test' instrument. I did it several years ago with a beer and sure enough I got buttered popcorn aromas. A day later, with the same beer ... it was completely gone. Edited May 30, 2020 by BlackSands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ruddager Posted May 30, 2020 Author Share Posted May 30, 2020 Lately my beers are only getting 10 or 11 days in the fermenter ... perhaps that’s it - no rest time. I’ve had to pump up production due to low stocks. A combo of Easter, covid and having to share again are to blame 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ruddager Posted May 30, 2020 Author Share Posted May 30, 2020 11 minutes ago, BlackSands said: Do a search... there's info out there on an easy test ... No! I hereby command you to post said link here! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris! Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 Could be the temp also. I have been doing a 12 day fermenter on most ales with regular yeast, but only 8 days warm and 4 days cold for those 12 days. I do 4 days at the temp I want the flavour profile and then 4 days at a higher temp for a rest and to ensure the yeast gets everything. I have done about 10 batches with this ferment profile and I have not noticed hop creep or diacteyl...knock in wood. I bring this up because, I wonder did you raise the temp at all during those 10 days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ruddager Posted May 30, 2020 Author Share Posted May 30, 2020 Nope it’s been steady at 19 because I’m fermenting two at a time 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris! Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 (edited) Yeah, that might be it but, that is my guess. Maybe just adjust the temp up at the end or let it sit longer, and that should fix it. But when you got to get it out you have to do what you can, I would of thought 10-11 would of been alright, I guess not. Have you tried kveik? I had 3 empty kegs two weeks ago. I have two kegs mostly full now and one in the fermenter cold crashing. I do an 8 day ferment with 4 days warm and 4 days cold with that yeast, but I am still adjusting that profile. Edited May 30, 2020 by Norris! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lab Cat Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 2 hours ago, King Ruddager said: A combo of Easter, covid and having to share again are to blame Giving beer away really screws with your stock levels. I've tried to stop it, but the expectations from the freeloaders for good free beer is monumental. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchBastard Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 @King Ruddager rip off a sample into a small glass and fill a container with hot tap water.sit ya sample in the hot water and let it heat up with foil over the top. If there’s a pre cursor to the dreaded D, the heat should turn it into Diactyl. something like that anyway. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSands Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 2 hours ago, King Ruddager said: No! I hereby command you to post said link here! Lazy bastard! Click here 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamus O'Sean Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 But I love popcorn with beer. Can't see the problem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ruddager Posted June 1, 2020 Author Share Posted June 1, 2020 (edited) On 5/30/2020 at 6:41 PM, King Ruddager said: Nope it’s been steady at 19 because I’m fermenting two at a time A further thought on this ... My fridge is set up with two fermenters, but only the top one has a heat belt on it. When I brew they get a week with the belt on the top shelf and then they are moved to the bottom when a new beer arrives. Perhaps without the heat belt they're not staying warm enough for the yeasties to clean up. I should talk the belt off the fermenter so that's it's ambient heat, not direct heat. That way both fermenters will get more evenly heated, although the heat belt will probably have to work a bit harder. Should be easy enough to confirm by checking the temps of each when I get home tonight. Edited June 1, 2020 by King Ruddager 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicolasW Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 (edited) I wouldn't call 19C low for us05. Ideal range is 15-22. Unless your measuring internal temps in the fermenter it's probably higher from heat of the ferment. I am assuming you're checking your final gravity and ensuring its stable over two or three days before kegging. 10 days *should* be fine if you have healthy yeast for moderate gravity beer. If you haven't measured gravity before you crash chill, then you can't confirm the yeast finished the sugars and moved onto other stuff. White labs recommends a two day rest at 18-22. Are the beers dry hopped with copious amounts of late dry hops? If so hop creep is a possibility. Some hops will contain the enzymes to convert long chain unfermentable carbs into fermentables. From there the yeast will start fermenting again. If you crash chill yeast will drop out without cleaning up. Bacteria will also throw diacetyl. So last thing you could look at is your cleaning and sanitizing. Check your keg lines and taps as well. If you want to dig more I've attached the White labs article or have a look at: Sorry about the essay. Hope it helps. Diacetyl_Time_Line (1).pdf Edited June 1, 2020 by NicolasW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ruddager Posted June 1, 2020 Author Share Posted June 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, NicolasW said: Check your keg lines and taps as well. I wish you guys would stop rubbing my nose in your fancy kegs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicolasW Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 2 hours ago, King Ruddager said: I wish you guys would stop rubbing my nose in your fancy kegs Heh sorry mate I assumed and you know how that goes.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 On 5/30/2020 at 5:05 PM, King Ruddager said: Actually that’s a lie. One had S04, the other US05. Two packets, pitched dry into cold wort I find S-04 doesn't like low temps for fermenting. Given the switching of fermenters in your brew fridge, one with a heat belt, one without etc... 1. What fermenter is your temp controller attached to? 2. What was the FG on this S-04 beer. S-04 accentuates malt character so if your FG was a little high either from a stall or just ended up high, this could give an overly sweet nature to the beer. Just my 20 cents, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malter White Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 On 5/30/2020 at 8:28 PM, Lab Cat said: Giving beer away really screws with your stock levels. I've tried to stop it, but the expectations from the freeloaders for good free beer is monumental. It's my ego that gets me generous enough to give away beer. I think, "Oooh, that's nice! I better let (insert mate's name) try this." Infrequently though, said mate's review isn't as glowing as my own opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malter White Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 20 hours ago, King Ruddager said: A further thought on this ... My fridge is set up with two fermenters, but only the top one has a heat belt on it. When I brew they get a week with the belt on the top shelf and then they are moved to the bottom when a new beer arrives. Perhaps without the heat belt they're not staying warm enough for the yeasties to clean up. I should talk the belt off the fermenter so that's it's ambient heat, not direct heat. That way both fermenters will get more evenly heated, although the heat belt will probably have to work a bit harder. Should be easy enough to confirm by checking the temps of each when I get home tonight. Hey Ruddy, I think you're heading in the right direction here. I've only had a heat belt for a few months and noticed immediately it gets fairly hot and was worried it might have a baking effect on the FV. So my solution was to just leave the heat belt loose in the fridge to heat the ambient air. Another thing I discovered is this solution wasn't foolproof. I put the temp probe and heat belt on the top FV, which also happened to be nearest to the cooling element of the fridge. This meant the top FV was copping hot and cold blasts but the bottom FV was getting nowhere near the correct temps. My solution to this was to tape the probe to the bottom FV. It seems to be more effective so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ruddager Posted June 1, 2020 Author Share Posted June 1, 2020 Looking at it last night, top fermenter was at 19° (as it was supposed to be), but the bottom one was only 15, so there's my problem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malter White Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 1 hour ago, King Ruddager said: Looking at it last night, top fermenter was at 19° (as it was supposed to be), but the bottom one was only 15, so there's my problem. As I wrote above, it appears to be a better outcome but make sure there's good air flow throughout the fridge, otherwise there'll still be discrepancies in temps in the different areas of the fridge. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSands Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 On 5/30/2020 at 10:58 PM, Lab Cat said: Giving beer away really screws with your stock levels. I've tried to stop it, but the expectations from the freeloaders for good free beer is monumental. I have no friends. Problem solved! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDT2 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 (edited) What everyone’s thoughts I made a Hefeweizen pitched yeast WB06 on Friday midday it finished the fermentation on Sunday I reckon went like a rocket took FG yesterday night 1012 if it is the same tomorrow do you think too early to bottle or should I give it more time I would with other beers cold crashing etc but because it is a wheat beer does it matter just thinking about diacetyl etc Edited June 2, 2020 by RDT2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamus O'Sean Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 It is still an ale type yeast. So no great need for a diacetyl rest. Me, I would up the temp by 2°C for 24-48 hours to encourage any yeast cleaning up. Bottle on Friday. Cold crashing not necessary with a wheat beer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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