Daily diary of a virgin (first ever) home brew!

[UncleStavvy]

Spun both recipes up in Designer. Looks really good, should both be good brews. I reckon if you got some Coopers cultured yeast going they'd be amazing. I'm sticking with the Pale ale tin and the dark malt extract as I loved the first batch I did but I am going to switch the white sugar for dry malt this time

But I keep forgetting your using the small FV so I'm thinking you need to reduce by 50%

Edited May 19, 2020 by UncleStavvy

[pilotsh]

36 minutes ago, UncleStavvy said:

But I keep forgetting your using the small FV so I'm thinking you need to reduce by 50%

My first brew was in the small FV. Second brew on wards is in the regular DIY FV (23ltr)

[UncleStavvy]

8 minutes ago, pilotsh said:

My first brew was in the small FV. Second brew on wards is in the regular DIY FV (23ltr)

In that case thumbs up

[Pezzza]

4 hours ago, pilotsh said:

(you can cheer now BB )

YYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

 

[Pezzza]

4 hours ago, pilotsh said:

Anybody know the difference between these? The descriptions don't really say. Is one just old packaging?

Think they are the same... just buy the cheapest Coopers Light Liquid Malt Extract... if you are chasing light...

[Pezzza]

3 hours ago, Goldcoast Crow said:

If I was to add one of these to a 10ltr toucan brew, would it just add flavour or would it bump up the abv aswell and would I need more yeast?

In most cases - unless you are going solo and making your own beer from Liquid Malt and Hops... you would use at least one Coopers KIT... Pale Ale/Dark Ale/Sparkling Ale etc etc.

And sorry - I am assuming you have a big FV... not 10L.  But you could - with a degree of difficulty - get a preserving jar or other - and pour half your Liquid Malt into that.

Cos one KIT and one Liquid Malt Can in 10L... is a bit hard core - and as JMan points out... around 10%... so you might need other yeast.

I would just do half a can - have you got the Spreadsheet that does this like the below - then you can mess around with it and see the impact on the ABV...

Cos you might be able to use Coopers Craft Series Kits which are less Weight anyway...

Yeah I remember doing a full 1.7kg kit in the Craft small FV and although I was able to drink my own beer I did not think it the best...  but that was I think a Lager... maybe the Real Ale would work better that way?

 

 

Maybe try a Real Ale Can 1.7kg in the 10L...

 

 

[Pezzza]

5 hours ago, pilotsh said:

So does anyone see any problems with my plan for Brew 4 and 5 now, which will compare the difference of LME vs DME!

This is GOLD.... and nice comparison.  Ha ha now the pressure is on hey?! 

Am voting for Pilot Ale:

 

[Pezzza]

5 hours ago, pilotsh said:

It was hard to put what was in my head into words, so here is my thoughts in picture form: is this correct?

Think you are going down the right track.  And honestly, although a beautiful natural simple process, the chemistry/biochemistry probably is not that simple...

One thing is tho - the terminology is important. 

In all of this discussion, there are long chain sugars, and short chain sugars, but they are not SUGAR which may be Table Sugar which is Sucrose which is a disaccharide made up of glucose and fructose - mono's that are shorter again.  And putting table sugar in beer and even dex... does not a good beer make as festive old @PB2 used to say.

At the end of the day - in good wort - probably best to talk about fermentables and non-fermentables.  Some non-fermentables are proteins that come across in All Grain and in Liquid Malt... I don't think... in my honest humble opinion... that they all make it through in Dry Malt.  But I cannot quote you any scientific papers on this... just pure practical experience.  I think that these proteins are being denatured in the heat/spray dry process... like cooking eggs... there's no going back.

The non-fermentables are incredibly important to the final outcome of the beer.  The final gravity has a massive impact on the flavour, mouthfeel, taste, texture, head etc.

If you use Saison Yeast that sucker will just about eat everything - and you get higher ABV - but less body - lower FG - for a certain style of beer.  Saison yeast does not seem to be phhkd about what you present it compared to other yeasts that cannot munch through the whole suite of compounds served up in the Wort - it just eats everything.  But then you will have a different beer to what an Ale Yeast or Lager Yeast will provide.

Different yeasts eat their way through the substrate... at different temps... and at different times in their population dynamic... in different ways resulting in different metabolic outputs that have marked different effects on the beer.  I have done same AG with split fermenters one with W3068 Hefeweizen Yeast and the other Ale Yeast US05... and the difference was like night and day.  Same input, same temp, but different yeasts.... MASSIVE difference in beer.

This is Palmer on malt... hope I am helping a bit...

http://howtobrew.com/book/section-1/malt-extract-and-beer-kits/what-is-malt

Beer is brewed from malted barley. More precisely, beer is made by fermenting the sugars extracted from malted barley (mostly maltose). Malt is a general term used as an abbreviation for several things associated with maltose and malted barley. Brewer's malt is not Malted Milk Balls, Malted Milk Shakes, nor is it malt extract. In those cases, malt refers to the use of maltose - the sugar. The malts that brewers talk about are the specific types of malted barley that are processed to yield a wide range of fermentable maltose sugars. These include Lager Malts, Pale Malts, Vienna Malts, Munich Malts, Toasted, Roasted and Chocolate Malts. But what is malted barley?

Malting is the process in which barley is soaked and drained to initiate the germination of the plant from the seed. When the seed germinates, it activates enzymes which start converting its starch reserves and proteins into sugars and amino acids that the growing plant can use. The purpose of malting a grain is to release these enzymes for use by the brewer. Once the seeds start to sprout, the grain is dried in a kiln to stop the enzymes until the brewer is ready to use the grain.

The brewer crushes the malted barley and soaks it in hot water to reactivate and accelerate the enzyme activity, converting the barley's starch reserves into sugars in a short period of time. The resulting sugar is boiled with hops and fermented by the yeast to make beer.

When making malt extract, the sugar solution is drawn off, pasteurized, and run into vacuum chambers for dehydration. By boiling off the water under a partial vacuum, the wort sugars are not caramelized by the heat of full boiling and a lighter tasting extract is produced. To make a hopped extract, Iso-Alpha Acid extracts of hops are added along with hop oils to give a complete hop character to the final wort extract. These hop extracts are added at the end of the process to prevent loss during dehydration. Malt extract takes a lot of the work out of brewing.

Malt extract is sold in both liquid (syrup) and powdered forms. The syrups are approximately 20 percent water, so 4 pounds of Dry Malt Extract (DME) is roughly equal to 5 pounds of Liquid Malt Extract (LME). DME is produced by heating the liquid extract and spraying it from an atomizer in a heated chamber. Strong air currents keep the droplets suspended until they dry and settle to the floor. DME is identical to LME except for the additional dehydration and lack of hopping. DME is not hopped because hop compounds would be lost during the final dehydration.

[Pezzza]

@pilotsh Pilot and @UncleStavvy Unc talking Dark Ales and souping it up a bit... this one is from a while back doing KnK... did a Dark Ale Toucan with a Coopers Lager tin.

So one Coops Dark Ale. One Coops Lager. Two tins of Goop. Fermented at 18 deg C.

The theory being - the Coopers Lager would add liquid malt and also extra hops... and I think I might have thrown in a kg of LDME (light dry malt extract)... and it came up a treat in 23L.

Bottled in Coopers Largies with two Coops Lollies per bottle.

And cannot remember whether threw both yeasts in or just the DA yeast.

Gave a bottle or two away and this photo was done by a mate who was very pleased with what he had received ha ha:

[pilotsh]

2 hours ago, Bearded Burbler said:

DME is identical to LME except for the additional dehydration and lack of hopping. DME is not hopped because hop compounds would be lost during the final dehydration.

So for discussion; is this the reason that you said "LME is a Quantum Leap" over DME? (your words, not mine... )

and by conclusion: If the liquid malt extract is not hopped than it doesn't matter if it is dry or liquid!.....

This brewing Rabbit Hole is HUUUUUUGGGGEEEEE!

 And a genuine thank you for all your posts in the last few hours I read them and learnt things too!

Edited May 19, 2020 by pilotsh

[pilotsh]

2 hours ago, Bearded Burbler said:

If you use Saison Yeast that sucker will just about eat everything - and you get higher ABV - but less body - lower FG - for a certain style of beer. 

This gives me a future idea for another two brews, the only difference being a brewers yeast vs my bread yeast!

[pilotsh]

2 hours ago, Bearded Burbler said:

Am voting for Pilot Ale:

So that would be another brew, because you added Liquid AND dry Malt. 

I might actually get to that many brews, depending on if Summer or Open Skies come first! 

*TopGun theme plays, camera pans back in slow mo revealing an FV blurry in the background!* 

hmmmm I really should look at a wine fridge for temp control come Spring..... 
 

Edited May 19, 2020 by pilotsh

[Pezzza]

59 minutes ago, pilotsh said:

This gives me a future idea for another two brews, the only difference being a brewers yeast vs my bread yeast!

Look I reckon that is a really cool idea @pilotsh Pilot.  I have read that you can use bread yeast for  mead (honey as the main substrate). But you can also get a range of specialist mead yeasts.

As long as you are prepared to cop that brew if it turns out a bit different... but would be pretty interesting to know.

Certainly the Wheat Beer Yeast vs Ale Yeast... the same wort... exact same wort... at same temps... even tho a Barley Dominant Wort... tasted much more like Wheat Beer with the Wheat Beer yeast - which to me shows the significant influence the Yeast can have.

And why I probably should take the advice of some of the crack brewers on this site and try more different yeasts ha ha! ; )

[Otto Von Blotto]

On 5/17/2020 at 12:06 PM, pilotsh said:

Others will confirm, but my understanding is yes, any additions other than water or any sugars will raise the OG and FG. Any additions with sugar in it will raise the OG, but ferment out into alcohol, so creating a lower FG, hence higher ABV (as ABV is based on the difference between the OG and FG).

Depends what the sugar is. They'll all increase OG but not necessarily FG. Malt extract contains sugars (maltose and others), I suspect it's the others that don't ferment out which is why overall extract is less fermentable than table sugar. 

[Pezzza]

1 hour ago, pilotsh said:

by conclusion: If the liquid malt extract is not hopped than it doesn't matter if it is dry or liquid!.....

Well by conclusion - yes - you can add malt as dry or liquid as the secondary addition to make your beer with a kit.

So for a Kit - as the secondary input you can use LDME/BEs etc or Liquid Malt - or like what you do with a Toucan TwoCan... Dark Ale + Coops Lager (+ I suggest as well some Dry)...

Where the second tin - another Kit - is a liquid malt tin + with additional hops.... which as hop oils are volatiles - they would largely be lost on spray drying as Palmer says and cannot be brought across as a dry product.

 

But malt and liquid vs dry - it DOES matter if it is dry or LIQUID when it comes to the non-hop compounds associated with mouthfeel-head-head retention and flavour...  including some of which will be the proteins as I was mentioning.

And if you try the Liquid Malt Extract - you will see the difference.

And if you try some Partial Malted Grain Extracts - you will see a further difference.

And if you do a good job of All Grain Brewing - you should see difference again.

Hopefully all of those "differences" will be improvements ; )

But as a few of the guys on this site said to me very early on - a good Kit Brew/Partial is way better than a bad All Grain : )

 

Edited May 19, 2020 by Bearded Burbler

[pilotsh]

2 hours ago, Bearded Burbler said:

But malt and liquid vs dry - it DOES matter if it is dry or LIQUID when it comes to the non-hop compounds associated with mouthfeel-head-head retention and flavour...  including some of which will be the proteins as I was mentioning.

 And if you try the Liquid Malt Extract - you will see the difference.

I am looking forward to it! Brew 4 as shown will probably be pitched by Saturday, so Brews 4 and 5 should be ready to taste in the last week of July (I am a realist so assumed a 14 day ferment and 4 weeks bottle conditioning).

I know they say 2 weeks bottle conditioning is enough BUT I have seen enough examples (from posts on this forum and during my learning researching online) where they just weren't 'ready' after the two weeks! So my new minimum is 4 weeks from bottling.

Edited May 19, 2020 by pilotsh

[Pezzza]

8 hours ago, pilotsh said:

So my new minimum is 4 weeks from bottling.

Gold - and just make sure the bottles are warm enough.... 18 is good...

Edited May 19, 2020 by Bearded Burbler

[pilotsh]

Dark cupboard, 22-25C

[pilotsh]

Would two of these be ok to store some mixed stellar san?

Edited May 20, 2020 by pilotsh

[Journeyman]

20 minutes ago, pilotsh said:

Would two of these be ok to store some mixed stellar san?

Why 2? How much are you planning to use? You don't need to fill an FV and you can re-use the sanitiser.

[Otto Von Blotto]

I wouldn't even bother getting one. Sanitiser only needs to be in contact with whatever it's used on for 30-60 seconds to work, there's no need to soak things in it for periods of time. Reused or not it's still wasting a fair bit of it. A spray bottle would suffice. I have a 1 litre spray bottle and it lasts several batches before it runs out.

It also loses effectiveness over time, so if you store a heap of it you probably wouldn't even use most of it before it became ineffective. 

[pilotsh]

Yeah I was thinking of dumping everything in the FV and soaking overnight. But it sounds like just spraying everything in the FV in the bath and then tipping it out is an easier way to go. I might get a little 500ml water bottle too so I can store a little (diluted) for the bottle washer I'll get.

Once diluted do you need a glove to hold the little fiddly bits while spraying them? Eg, the tap, hydrometer etc.

Edited May 20, 2020 by pilotsh

[MitchellScott]

1 minute ago, pilotsh said:

Yeah I was thinking of dumping everything in the FV and soaking overnight. But it sounds like just spraying everything in the FV in the bath and then tipping it out is an easier way to go. I might get a 500 ml bottle too so I can store a little for the bottle washer I'll get.

Once diluted do you need a glove to hold the little fiddly bits while spraying them? Eg, the tap, hydrometer etc.

Not really, just wash your hands afterwards.

I've never had any dramas with it but I assume if you had sensitive skin you may want to wear gloves.

[Journeyman]

10 minutes ago, pilotsh said:

Yeah I was thinking of dumping everything in the FV and soaking overnight. But it sounds like just spraying everything in the FV in the bath and then tipping it out is an easier way to go. I might get a little 500ml water bottle too so I can store a little (diluted) for the bottle washer I'll get.

Once diluted do you need a glove to hold the little fiddly bits while spraying them? Eg, the tap, hydrometer etc.

On FB there were some people complaining they got rashes and splits etc. On questioning them I found out they were using it undiluted on their hands - that's 666 times stronger than the recommended level.

I've never had an issue and often have it on my hands until I've finished the job I am doing.

[Pezzza]

39 minutes ago, pilotsh said:

Once diluted do you need a glove

Each to their own on this one for sure... I do wear sterilised gloves... just cos I know there will be less microorganisms on the Food-Safe sterilised glove surfaces than my hands however much I wash the pahhharque out of me hands...

Plus when I do that final sterilise, I am usually using boiling water + SSan which can be a bit hot on bare hands.

But everyone has their own way of doing things fer sher.