Pezzza Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 2 hours ago, pilotsh said: (the FV sits on our front load washing machine). Not good aeration of the Wort that way Pilot? ; ) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezzza Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 2 hours ago, pilotsh said: Liquid Malt contains 20% water and dry malt almost non Yeah I think Kelsey @Otto Von Blotto maybe said that somewhere... maybe he will be so kind to assist again? This popped up when I did a search: And yeah I think Dry Malt is called that for a reason.... Unless you've had the bag open and its hygroscopic nature has taken some ambient moisture and turned itself into a solid block? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilotsh Posted May 22, 2020 Author Share Posted May 22, 2020 (edited) Ok so experiment is going ahead with Dry 1.2kg and Liquid 1.5kg, to compare apples with apples Edited May 22, 2020 by pilotsh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilotsh Posted May 22, 2020 Author Share Posted May 22, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Bearded Burbler said: Maybe Notts + maybe some extra hop to balance out the sweetness ? hmmmm, can you add cooled hops water at bottling? It gives me an idea for a tri bottling: no hops, hops x, hops 2x. This way I learn about hop effect, and it is the only one change to compare! Win win! I could bottle out of the small FV 7Lt, 7Lt, 7Lt = 21Lt (the brew from the 23Lt FV would be about that volume if I don't want to bottle trub!). And if one result tastes blugh, then I only have 10 bottles of it, not 30! Edited May 22, 2020 by pilotsh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezzza Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 4 minutes ago, pilotsh said: can you add cooled hops water at bottling? Mate you really are the Intrepid Brewer for a 'New Bruce'** !! I just recently read in book "Extreme Brewing" of something like just that suggestion - will go look for book and see if I can photo the page... is quite a festive book also a bit more for Partials and Extract Brewers than All Grainers but has interesting ideas... This is the book -- photo of front cover - I got it out of the Library... Apologies cannot find the spot which talks directly about that readily - but pretty sure this lot were doing something just like that... and cannot hurt to try... Basically I think it was using the "Bulk Prime" of the malt being added for secondary ferment - and charging that with a good wallop of hops - so instead of Coopers Lollies... you mix up some bulk prime solution - which could be some malt - boiled with hops - COOL keeping sterile - and add that to the FV when ferment ended - stir and bottle... From what @Otto Von Blotto OVB is saying - with that kit - and that liquid malt - albeit a Lager Yeast... maybe some extra bitterness/hopping is warranted which might be good to add to the initial brew prior to ferment... right at the start... a base load... and then bottle half or third of that with Coopers lollies... no extra hops other than what you added initially... and then subsequently to 2/3 add the hopped bulk priming solution... so only two treatments... bottle one lot with lollies... and one with a heavily hopped bulk prime solution.... given you need some liquid (enough to boil the hops in) to add to the brew... but don't want to overload the nicely fermented brew with some new non-fermented fluid... am thinking a no hop treatment (lollies for second ferment) and a hop treatment via bulk prime - two might be more practical and get a better result than trying to get three... with greater volume to the hopped... to balance out the introduction of the bulk prime solution which includes the hops. **seems like the Monty Python Uni of Woolloomoolloo sketch is gone off Youtube... prolly not PC... for text only: http://www.montypython.net/scripts/bruceskit.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilotsh Posted May 22, 2020 Author Share Posted May 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Bearded Burbler said: Mate you really are the Intrepid Brewer for a 'New Bruce'** !! Thanks for the compliment, I think. Not really intrepid, I follow the instructions but if I don't I only like to change one thing, so if it AMAZING, or is HORRENDOUS, I know what caused it. 1 hour ago, Bearded Burbler said: boiled with hops - COOL keeping sterile - I quote this so anyone else even newer to this than me (yes, even though I am new) reading also knows how easy it is to add a wrong microbe/thing to a brew. You can play around with ingredients, but keep the sterility. It is easy to go through a whole brew, add Maple Syrup to a bottle to prime, but an off bacteria is introduced there, right at the end. Or at the start, get the FV to 21C and just before you add the yeast decide to stir in an extra un-sanitised ingredient, and then the brew grows legs! For me, yes, I sterilized my pourer, and my ginger syrup by boil, then cool, then add. 1 hour ago, Bearded Burbler said: From what @Otto Von Blotto OVB is saying - with that kit - and that liquid malt - albeit a Lager Yeast... maybe some extra bitterness/hopping is warranted which might be good to add to the initial brew prior to ferment... right at the start... a base load... and then bottle half or third of that with Coopers lollies... no extra hops other than what you added initially... and then subsequently to 2/3 add the hopped bulk priming solution... so only two treatments... bottle one lot with lollies... and one with a heavily hopped bulk prime solution.... given you need some liquid (enough to boil the hops in) to add to the brew... but don't want to overload the nicely fermented brew with some new non-fermented fluid... am thinking a no hop treatment (lollies for second ferment) and a hop treatment via bulk prime - two might be more practical and get a better result than trying to get three... with greater volume to the hopped... to balance out the introduction of the bulk prime solution which includes the hops. 1) Otto, wait, Amber with Lager yeast or you brewed +Amber with Notty? 2)mmmm, I couldn't: Having never used the Euro Lager Can myself by following the instructions except using Notty Yeast instead of the included yeast, there is the one change (the yeast). Then, once I have bottled 10 of the "baseline" I could then bottle the rest with varying amount of Hops! And yes I know, WHICH Hops! That is the great question here. I am happy to be the "crazy scientist": if I add hops at bottle to a Euro Lager can brewed as an Ale following instructions (ie +1kg BE3) which Hops (there are many) do the people here think would complement it best!? Happy to get votes, it'll be brewed in about July, once this Dry vs Liquid Malt experiment is laid down and bottled! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilotsh Posted May 22, 2020 Author Share Posted May 22, 2020 Hey BB, sorry forgot to say I found a truncated version of the MP sketch. I loved the humor and irony of it! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 I made it with the kit yeast and a tin of amber malt. Ended up being too sweet for me. The yeast obviously has some effect but if I did it again (which I won't ) I'd be increasing the bitterness. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilotsh Posted May 23, 2020 Author Share Posted May 23, 2020 On 5/20/2020 at 1:07 PM, Otto Von Blotto said: A spray bottle would suffice. How about this? Plastic and stainless steel. Nice and cheap. Easy to spray everything while it's in the bath. I would get the 2 litre one but that has a brass nozzle, exactly a soft metal SSan says not to use on, and has to be kept vertical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezzza Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, pilotsh said: How about this? Plastic and stainless steel. Nice and cheap. Easy to spray everything while it's in the bath. I would get the 2 litre one but that has a brass nozzle, exactly a soft metal SSan says not to use on, and has to be kept vertical. How many thousand bottles are you sterilising? I think @Otto Von Blotto Kelsey may have been referring to something more like this - get food grade. Am a bit worried your suggestion above (which is not food grade) might be too small... maybe get yourself one of these to show a bit more commitment?! : ) But mate yeah if that sprayer seems the goods - why not... probably not essential to be food grade if just spraying external features... Edited May 23, 2020 by Bearded Burbler 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezzza Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 17 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said: (which I won't ) I Now don't be like that Kelsey ha ha ; ) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezzza Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 (edited) 19 hours ago, pilotsh said: Not really intrepid, adjective: intrepid fearless; adventurous (often used for rhetorical or humorous effect). It is more about that fact that you wanna have a go... which is gold. Anyway... here is that hopping of the bulk prime I was talking about - found it eventually ; ) But given @Otto Von Blotto Kelsey's helpful experienced comments - even tho is Notts and Ale - after Kelsey's feedback I really think you need to introduce some hops earlier on to make this whole thing work. The below then can be added to the base hops added to the whole brew prior to ferment. As for hops. Well - hopefully a few more legends might jump in - but as is sort of English Aley EB type thing... am thinking maybe East Kent Goldings... Styrian Goldings... Fuggles.... Edited May 23, 2020 by Bearded Burbler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 7 hours ago, pilotsh said: How about this? Plastic and stainless steel. Nice and cheap. Easy to spray everything while it's in the bath. I would get the 2 litre one but that has a brass nozzle, exactly a soft metal SSan says not to use on, and has to be kept vertical. Great for weeding. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 Yeah I was more talking about the ones like burbler posted about, not weed sprayers. You don't really use much of the sanitiser so mixing up more than a litre or so is probably too much, at least the way I use it anyway. I also mix it with distilled water. I'm not sure how true it is but I have read that is becomes ineffective faster when it's made up with normal tap water. Since I have plenty of distilled water on hand it's easy enough. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 3 hours ago, Bearded Burbler said: Now don't be like that Kelsey ha ha ; ) It was pretty ordinary, however at that point I had no knowledge of yeast numbers or ideal fermentation temps. I reckon half the reason it was crap was due to underpitching, but either way that malt is too sweet in a lager without some sort of additional bitterness. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezzza Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 (edited) 15 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said: that malt is too sweet in a lager without some sort of additional bitterness. Kelsey what hops do you reckon you would suggest for @pilotsh doing the Aley thing - and I am trying to convince Pilot to do some bittering prior to FV And some late hop tea could be done as well.... but think some bittering might be useful... have suggested Pommy hoppage like Fuggles-Goldings... your thoughts? Edited May 24, 2020 by Bearded Burbler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 I'd probably be choosing a different kit to do that be honest, maybe the draught kit. It already has a reasonable amount of bitterness and would suit a short hop boil and the ale style better. For my tastes at least, trying to clash a Euro lager with an ale wouldn't really make a great tasting beer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezzza Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Otto Von Blotto said: I'd probably be choosing a different kit to do that be honest, maybe the draught kit. It already has a reasonable amount of bitterness and would suit a short hop boil and the ale style better. For my tastes at least, trying to clash a Euro lager with an ale wouldn't really make a great tasting beer. Yes mate... abbsaloootely.... but given that @pilotsh has got this Euro Kit.... and does not have temp control... what is the best way out... Pilot has Notty Yeast... What is the best workaround.... for him to use that kit... and that yeast... to get an Aley Result what do you think mate? I reckon a few litres of water boiled with LDME with Fuggles or EKG... and use that to add into the Kit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 Why not just get some light malt and do a pseudo lager with it? Boil some hallertau or Saaz or something for some extra bitterness, ferment it at 14 or 15. Won't be exactly like a lager but it'll probably turn out better than amber malt. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilotsh Posted May 24, 2020 Author Share Posted May 24, 2020 Sunday 24th May: Brew 004 pitched! Malt: Canned- Coopers Dark Ale. BB date on can: 8/8/21. Or for any Americans reading that's 8/8/21!! Extra Ingredients: 700g Coopers Light Dry Malt, and 1kg of Coopers Brew Enhancer 3. (To match weight of Brew 5, refer comments) Water: Unfiltered, rested tap water. (Didn't pitch yesterday, water was choriny, I think they dump a batch in on Fri for the weekend, lol. Preparation: New method, ended up a bit warm. Malt Can added to off-the-boil water, dissolved, dump in FV. Brew enhancer stirred into off-the-boil water, dump into FV. Light dry malt stirred into off-the-boil water Dump into FV. Topped up with a whole pot of rested water from the fridge (prepared) and even then FV was still 28C. So topped up to just short of 25Lt, and got it to 26C. Warm I know, but it is what it is: learning curve. For the sake of consistency with Brew 5 as it is a comparison, I will do the same. Yeast: Sachet included with Can. Pitching Method: Sprinkled Dry Yeast onto the top of wort. Initial Wort Temperature: 26.8C (within instructions of 21-27C, just! ) Temperature Control: No cooling. 35W heat belt. Inkbird Temp controller, target 19.9C, Heat belt at 19.2C. I don't know why I bothered with a heat belt; in an apartment building, with the surrounding structure and rooms the lowest I have seen the FV is 20.0C. But that is also a strength: the highest I have seen the FV is 22.9C. So, luckily I have constant +-1.5C. (Most of the time +- 0.7C) Initial Sample SG (OG): 1047. Can instructions indicated 1038, but I have added an extra 700g of Light Dry Malt. Comments: I learnt a lot about how hard it is to cool an FV, even with water from a fridge at 2C! Also, Brew 4 will be a comparison to Brew 5, the only change being using Liquid Malt in place of Dry Malt as follows: Brew 004: Brew 005: 1.7kg Can Coopers Dark Ale 1.7kg Can Coopers Dark Ale 0.7kg Coopers Light Dry Malt 1.5kg Can Thomas Cooper Light LME (the Yellow can) 1kg Coopers Brew Enhancer 3: 500g Coopers Brew Enhancer 1: -500g Light Dry Malt -300g Dextrose -300g Dextrose -200g Maltodextrin -200g Maltodextrin (so Dextrose & Maltodextrin match Brew 4) (so a total of 1.2kg Light Dry Malt, which is equivalent to 1.5kg of Liquid Malt, as a liquid Malt can is approximately 20% water). Photo(s): 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilotsh Posted May 24, 2020 Author Share Posted May 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Otto Von Blotto said: Why not just get some light malt and do a pseudo lager with it? Boil some hallertau or Saaz or something for some extra bitterness, ferment it at 14 or 15. Won't be exactly like a lager but it'll probably turn out better than amber malt. I won't be able to brew at 14-15 without a fridge. The Best Before date on the can is Oct 2021. I am beginning to realise I may have to store the can, for now. My place gets too warm in Summer for brewing. So if by then I am continuing with brewing I will have to fork out for a temperature controlled device, or a wine fridge, to brew in. If I don't then I'll experiment with the Euro Lager can before it expires in Oct 2021. Oh, and if any bosses from Coopers read this, please try to put critical brewing information on the cans on the OUTSIDE of the label so we can see if it is appropriate BEFORE we take it home. You should not have to peel the label to get critical information! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamus O'Sean Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 The European Lager was my second brew. I brewed it at ambient in March in Melbourne. Not a lager, according to the purists. However, it was a really nice beer at 4 weeks. I left it in a cupboard inside the house for three months. I drank a bottle every month for monitoring purposes. I could not swear that it had got better, but it had definitely not got any worse. I would make the Euro Lager Brew 006 if I were you. You will be brewing one properly before that best before date rolls around anyway. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilotsh Posted May 25, 2020 Author Share Posted May 25, 2020 Brew 004: Monday 26th May: 17 hours (0.71 days) since pitch. Brew Temp: 22.9C SG: Not tested. Comments: The yeast took off from the blocks nicely. Full 2-3cm of Krausen. Photo(s): Nil 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezzza Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 2 hours ago, pilotsh said: Photo(s): Nil waddyamean Nil... there are two lovely photos ha ha?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilotsh Posted May 25, 2020 Author Share Posted May 25, 2020 Oops, and it is too late to edit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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