It's Kegging Time 2019

[Journeyman]

15 hours ago, Red devil 44 said:

You will have CO2 once kegging, why not use that ? You are overthinking things again dude, if you have a 6kg cylinder you will use a poofteenth of CO2 to gas your keg if you do it right, you can get around 40-50 kegs per Cylinder ? 
‘Just sayin mate

Which is what I plan to do. But the question on that thread about taste got me wondering, so I asked.  

If, and I mean IF, as I don't know, there is a difference in taste between CO2 and sugar conditioning, and I am not a fan of the soda water 'after taste' then using sugar or even a bit of LDM to condition and thenbring the keg to pressure could be a way to deal with it.

If nobody has tried it I will give it a go once I get kegging settled in, just for the halibut.  But I figure someone, at some time, would have tried sugar carbing in a keg.

 

Edited April 12, 2020 by Journeyman

[Journeyman]

I was sitting contemplating where everything will go once I get the kegging gear and suddenly realised I may not have everything I need. Originally I was getting everything except kegs from CPB but they ran out of CO2 cylinders so I have ordered one from Beerbelly.

What I realised is maybe CO2 cylinders don't come with the connect needed to attach a beer line. If it was all coming from one supplier I'd expect it to be attached but from 2 different ones, it is likely both will presume I already have the connector.

Do the cylinders normally come with the appropriate connector? If not, what is used? Is it just another gas disconnect like on the keg end or something different? 

[Red devil 44]

18 minutes ago, Journeyman said:

I was sitting contemplating where everything will go once I get the kegging gear and suddenly realised I may not have everything I need. Originally I was getting everything except kegs from CPB but they ran out of CO2 cylinders so I have ordered one from Beerbelly.

What I realised is maybe CO2 cylinders don't come with the connect needed to attach a beer line. If it was all coming from one supplier I'd expect it to be attached but from 2 different ones, it is likely both will presume I already have the connector.

Do the cylinders normally come with the appropriate connector? If not, what is used? Is it just another gas disconnect like on the keg end or something different? 

You connect the Regulator to your Gas Cylinder JM, then out of the regulator at a lower pressure to feed into your kegs.

The Cylinder fitting is a parallel thread, but you will have a washer on the end to allow sealing.

High pressure (Cylinder )  into Regulator, then with the other gauge feed your keg pressure in.

Pic attached, roughly 5200kpa in cyl on the left,  then feed in at 70-80kpa on the right.

[Naughty Corner Brewing]

Cylinder attaches to the regulator. Depending on the connection/s on the regulator, you’ll need some appropriate connectors.

[Journeyman]

Just now, Red devil 44 said:

You connect the Regulator to your Gas Cylinder JM, then out of the regulator at a lower pressure to feed into your kegs.

The Cylinder fitting is a parallel thread, but you will have a washer on the end to allow sealing.

High pressure (Cylinder )  into Regulator, then with the other gauge feed your keg pressure in.

Pic attached, roughly 5200kpa in cyl on the left,  then feed in at 70-80kpa on the right.

That's a relief. I was worried I might get all my gear and be standing there looking at a non-functional system  

I presume if I later want to mount the reg on the wall I can use a gas hose with a standard gas fitting at either end to run from the cylinder.

[iBooz2]

Mark, the Harris regulator you got has the standard thread for CO2 bottles.  It is designed for those bottle only.  Different gasses have different threads so they generally cannot be mixed up.  Some regulators cover a couple of gas types.  Might be expensive getting a hose made up to go from CO2 bottle to your regulator on your wall as it will obliviously need to be very high pressure rated (read not a good idea) so I don't recommend that path

The Harris comes with the barb fitting for your gas line and will push into the 5mm ID hose with the help of some hot water.

You will need some gas rated Teflon thread tape for this fitting and a good SS clamp of suitable DIA.

Cheers - AL

Edited April 13, 2020 by iBooz2

[Red devil 44]

1 minute ago, Journeyman said:

That's a relief. I was worried I might get all my gear and be standing there looking at a non-functional system  

I presume if I later want to mount the reg on the wall I can use a gas hose with a standard gas fitting at either end to run from the cylinder.

Yeah on my Kegerator it’s attached to the wall, I built the wall first and put a couple extra studs behind for bracing.

But on my keezer it’s attached on my frame outside via chain so it doesn’t get knocked over.

Pic attached ( this is the dual stage reg ), not using the High pressure side at the moment as all kegs are gassed up, the other gauge on the right is current serving pressure to 4 x kegs.

[Marty_G]

21 minutes ago, Red devil 44 said:

Pic attached ( this is the dual stage reg ), not using the High pressure side at the moment as all kegs are gassed up, the other gauge on the right is current serving pressure to 4 x kegs.

Love the chain so easy and can be done just on the side of a fridge great idea.  I now have a small project to do today.

 

[Journeyman]

1 hour ago, Red devil 44 said:

Yeah on my Kegerator it’s attached to the wall, I built the wall first and put a couple extra studs behind for bracing.

So the cylinder is attached to the wall? Not just the reg?

[Red devil 44]

6 minutes ago, Journeyman said:

So the cylinder is attached to the wall? Not just the reg?

It’s sits in a bracket then the bracket screws to my wall, so I can get the cylinder out easy when it’s empty. ( pic attached )

They come with the Kegerator package, but I think you can buy them as a stand alone item also.

Not sure why you want to screw a regulator to the wall as it is well supported via the Cylinder, you couldn’t anyway.

The bracket actually attaches to the rear of the Kegerator via bolts, ( but it’s hard to see ) but I didn’t like that idea and I like to see my gauges at all times to see what’s going on so I mounted it to the wall behind allowing easier removal and viewing of the regulator,  just my preference.

The whole cylinder/regulator is quite weighty so that’s why I screwed extra battons in the wall behind before i sheeted it.
 

 

 

[Journeyman]

The idea of removing the reg and having it on the wall was for convenience mostly. At that moment I hadn't thought about how the cylinder attaches to the system and only had the thought of, "What if I haven't got a connection?"

Then I thought about issues of regularly having to unscrew the reg to take the bottle to be filled along with constantly using plumbers tape to reseal and the potential for damage to it - I went looking and found a video about kent lock couplings and that maybe I could separate the bottle and reg with such a system. I also like the versatility of the kent lock idea - it's a bit like having a dual pressure manifold. Unfortunately kent locks don't seem to be an Aussie thing, or they are called something else. See 

 

[Red devil 44]

31 minutes ago, Journeyman said:

The idea of removing the reg and having it on the wall was for convenience mostly. At that moment I hadn't thought about how the cylinder attaches to the system and only had the thought of, "What if I haven't got a connection?"

Then I thought about issues of regularly having to unscrew the reg to take the bottle to be filled along with constantly using plumbers tape to reseal and the potential for damage to it - I went looking and found a video about kent lock couplings and that maybe I could separate the bottle and reg with such a system. I also like the versatility of the kent lock idea - it's a bit like having a dual pressure manifold. Unfortunately kent locks don't seem to be an Aussie thing, or they are called something else. See 

 

Yep still have no idea why you would want the Reg on a wall ?

You have no choice when the Cylinder is empty to unscrew the Regulator then re-attach once you have a replacement.

This putting thread tape on the thread of the Cylinder is not required, and a sure fire way to stretch the thread on the Type 30 connection on the Regulator, My pedigree- Mechanical Fitter, Pipeline Technician, Tube Fitter, Refrigeration Ticket, Gas Reticulation in Hospitality Industry for 28yrs etc.

You use a nylon style washer to make the seal as per pic, no problem having a few spares as they are relatively inexpensive, hope this helps dude.

[Journeyman]

5 minutes ago, Red devil 44 said:

Yep still have no idea why you would want the Reg on a wall ?

You have no choice when the Cylinder is empty to unscrew the Regulator then re-attach once you have a replacement.

This putting thread tape on the thread of the Cylinder is not required, and a sure fire way to stretch the thread on the Type 30 connection on the Regulator, My pedigree- Mechanical Fitter, Pipeline Technician, Tube Fitter, Refrigeration Ticket, Gas Reticulation in Hospitality Industry for 28yrs etc.

You use a nylon style washer to make the seal as per pic, no problem having a few spares as they are relatively inexpensive, hope this helps dude.

Helps a lot. 

I know people think I am over-thinking but better to know in advance all the possible issues and options than wake to find a non-functional system.

Thanks

[iBooz2]

@Journeyman Mark, Those connectors in that video are for the low pressure side and you don't need to stuff around with connectors and joiners.  Your low pressure side from the Harris regulator simply goes out to a low pressure manifold/selector/isolation switch setup (if you want this setup to run multiple lines).  All I have and found to have needed was my 5mm ID gas line goes into a duotight "Tee" then to two of the gas ball lock connectors on say 1 metre fly leads.  These are nearly always connected to the two kegs at serving pressure.  If I need to say purge another keg at about serving pressure, just undo one of the gas in fly leads and attach it to the purging keg temporarily.  If i need to say pump up a recently filled keg to force carbonate, then undo both off the tapped kegs gas ball lock connectors, wind the regulator up to say 40 psi and attach one of the gas ball locks to my carbing keg. It can be an octopus of gas lines, one of them just hanging there for utility stuffing around.

WARNING #2

Do not FK with the high pressure side unless you are qualified to do so and make these things.  If you are intent on running a high pressure line up the wall from your gas bottle to your wall mounted regulator you must get this made and certified by a licensed gas fitter.  It will most likely have to be thick walled copper pipe. I don't think you can do this with flexible hose arrangements but could be wrong. 

I know they are available for mig welding gasses etc. as welding workshops often have multiple bottles feeding into the one regulator so that the draw down does not freeze up the bottles etc.

There is no getting around, and no easy connector fix so that you don't have to undo the bottle from regulator every time you need to have it filled.  This will probably be a once a year event anyway.  Some gas bottle fittings on regulators have "O" rings or washer type seals so use of thread tape is superfluous here.  Thread tape should never be used on flared fitting either.

Cheers - AL

Red Devil beat me...

Edited April 13, 2020 by iBooz2

[Titan]

[Journeyman]

1 minute ago, iBooz2 said:

Do not FK with the high pressure side unless you are qualified to do so and make these things.  There is no getting around, and no easy connector fix so that you don't have to undo the bottle from regulator every time you need to have it filled. 

 Seems to be a consensus.  Thanks

[Red devil 44]

8 minutes ago, iBooz2 said:

@Journeyman Mark, Those connectors in that video are for the low pressure side and you don't need to stuff around with connectors and joiners.  Your low pressure side from the Harris regulator simply goes out to a low pressure manifold/selector/isolation switch setup (if you want this setup to run multiple lines).  All I have and found to have needed was my 5mm ID gas line goes into a duotight "Tee" then to two of the gas ball lock connectors on say 1 metre fly leads.  These are nearly always connected to the two kegs at serving pressure.  If I need to say purge another keg at about serving pressure, just undo one of the gas in fly leads and attach it to the purging keg temporarily.  If i need to say pump up a recently filled keg to force carbonate, then undo both off the tapped kegs gas ball lock connectors, wind the regulator up to say 40 psi and attach one of the gas ball locks to my carbing keg. It can be an octopus of gas lines, one of them just hanging there for utility stuffing around.

WARNING #2

Do not FK with the high pressure side unless you are qualified to do so and make these things.  If you are intent on running a high pressure line up the wall from your gas bottle to your wall mounted regulator you must get this made and certified by a licensed gas fitter.  It will most likely have to be thick walled copper pipe. I don't think you can do this with flexible hose arrangements but could be wrong. 

I know they are available for mig welding gasses etc. as welding workshops often have multiple bottles feeding into the one regulator so that the draw down does not freeze up the bottles etc.

There is no getting around, and no easy connector fix so that you don't have to undo the bottle from regulator every time you need to have it filled.  This will probably be a once a year event anyway.  Some gas bottle fittings on regulators have "O" rings or washer type seals so use of thread tape is superfluous here.  Thread tape should never be used on flared fitting either.

Cheers - AL

Red Devil beat me...

All good iBooz, this is good information you have provided also

[iBooz2]

As @Titan has pointed out and probably suggesting is the option to run a low pressure gas hose up to your wall mounted low pressure gauge only.  The high pressure gauge and adjustment knob obviously would have to stay down on the bottle connection.  If the bottle is in a hard to view spot then this may work for you

You would need the fitting for where the low pressure gauge screws into the Harris but why bother?  Just put your bottle and gauges where you can see it or buy a second gauge with the push in duo tight fittings and have that connected to one of the octopus leads as per previous post.  Could be hanging up on the wall or stuck to the front of the fridge etc.

Cheers - AL

Edited April 13, 2020 by iBooz2

[iBooz2]

On 4/11/2020 at 1:57 PM, Journeyman said:

Well, all ordered, most from Cheekypeakbreweries but while I waited for a response they sold out of 6kg CO2 bottles so that is coming from beerbelly - more expensive than kegland but KL were rather unhelpful in the prelim stages and BB is nothing but helpful. A little extra cost is reward for better service.

3 kegs, 4 taps, CO2, CMb disconnects, Harris Reg, 4-way manifold, duotight connectors and MFL threads on everything. Even a drip tray. Total with gas and kegs, $780. 

Theoretically the 2 brews in the fridge right now should be my last bottling brews except for occasional specialty ones I want to store.

@Journeyman Mark its easy to get prices from KL immediately.  What I do is just add the bits you are looking at to your cart but don't go through to the final checkout stage.  Shipping is a bit of a guess with some sites and some give estimates.  Anyway you know how that works.

Point of my post is that you do not appear to have a one way check valve on your shopping list.  You will need at least one to go into your low pressure gas line just after the regulator so beer does not accidentally get shot back up the gas line and into your regulator.  Hate to see that new Harris gurgling its last before its time.  Some regulators have in-built check valves, unsure if the Harris one does.

Also get some food grade lube as just makes the ball locks "smick on" real nice and probably lengthens their lives.

Another tip: I put a blue texta mark near the IN post on my kegs so when I am fiddling around in the keg fridge I can easily see which post is the gas post.  The marking on most kegs are not real clear.  I know the IN and OUT posts are slightly different on new kegs so theoretically you cannot put a gas ball lock on a beer out post.  But if you are wearing a blue and white apron (butcher) it is possible to clip gas on the wrong post (have done it and was a bugger to get it back off, may have damaged a seal).  Some second hand kegs with refurbished seals etc. may have the same posts for IN and OUT.

Cheers - AL

Edited April 13, 2020 by iBooz2

[Journeyman]

3 minutes ago, iBooz2 said:

Point of my post is that you do not appear to have a one way check valve on your shopping list.  You will need at least one to go into your low pressure gas line just after the regulator so beer does not accidentally get shot up the gas line and into your regulator.  Hate to see that new Harris gurgling its last before its time.  Some regulators have in-built check valves, unsure if the Harris one does.

Also get some food grade lube just makes the ball locks "smick on" real nice and probably lengthens their lives.

Another tip: I put a blue texta mark near the IN post on my kegs so when I am fiddling around in the keg fridge I can easily see which post is the gas post.  The marking on most kegs are not real clear.  I know the IN and OUT posts are slightly different on new kegs so theoretically you cannot put a gas ball lock on a beer out post.  But if you are wearing a blue and white apron (butcher) it is possible to clip gas on the wrong post (have done it and was a bugger to get it back off, may have damaged a seal).  Some second hand kegs with refurbished seals etc. may have the same posts for IN and OUT.

The manifold I'm getting has built in check valves for each line. "4 Way CO2 Gas Manifold with built in one way check valves" - I've assumbed I don't need another one between the manifold and the reg?

I have now ordered some lube - watched a clip earlier and it was mentioned at which point I have a Homer Simpson moment.

Great idea on marking the posts. I saw they are supposed to have an indent line on gas posts but hadn't considered that might be a bugger to see.

[iBooz2]

No not needed if manifold has them so all good there.

Cheers - AL

[Red devil 44]

My manifold has built in check valves too, but I went with check valves in my in feed line also, just for piece of mind if the others fail I guess. As Regulators aren’t cheap.

[ben 10]

4 hours ago, Journeyman said:

Then I thought about issues of regularly having to unscrew the reg to take the bottle to be filled along with constantly using plumbers tape to reseal and the potential for damage to it

There are not any issues. Unscrew it and go and get it filled. No need for tape. Mine seals just fine with the KK regulator.
Just get the effing set up and stick the cylinder on the floor like everyone else does.

[Pezzza]

28 minutes ago, Ben 10 said:

There are not any issues. Unscrew it and go and get it filled. No need for tape. Mine seals just fine with the KK regulator.
Just get the effing set up and stick the cylinder on the floor like everyone else does. 

and @Journeyman JMan if you are worried about the cylinder falling over with its beautiful Harris regulator - which you should be definitely - just make sure it is restrained somehow or upright in a crate or other SO it does NOT fall over...  and last I was told gas thread tape on the brass - brass fittings with the nylon washers @Red devil 44 as Red notes... does not require thread tape.  I understand your concern about over-tightening - but mate I think you are just gunna have to give it a go.  And maybe your supplier can assist on giving you some indication of firm and not over-tightening.  At worst purchase yourself a Torque Wrench.

 

Edited April 13, 2020 by Bearded Burbler

[Pezzza]

Aren't yer better off using SS crimped fittings re leakage etc?