It's Kegging Time 2019

[Journeyman]

It's not 'want' so much as exploring the options. I'd hate to go buy the things I think I need and then find I've got to change later or go buy extras.

The dual pressure manifold thing looks like it would allow both pouring pressure and carbing pressure from the same CO2 reg - it's MUCH cheaper than a 2nd cylinder/reg and I don't have to force carb but I can if I need to due to faulty planning or a keg issue or something else. i.e. if I suddenly don't have beer waiting I can have one ready next day. 

But then, I am starting to sound like an addict.  Beer... beer... where's my beer? I need it NOW!

But I take your point. I just like to know all the options before buying. 

Edited April 4, 2020 by Journeyman

[Marty_G]

 

32 minutes ago, Journeyman said:

he dual pressure manifold thing looks like it would allow both pouring pressure and carbing pressure from the same CO2 reg - it's MUCH cheaper than a 2nd cylinder/reg and I don't have to force carb but I can if I need to due to faulty planning or a keg issue or something else. i.e. if I suddenly don't have beer waiting I can have one ready next day. 

Not sure if you are confused. Pouring pressure and carbing pressure are the same pressure if you don't force carb.  The set and forget method is hook it up at serving pressure for a week and bingo it is ready.  Or am I confused and you know that?  Anyway the manifold has shut off valves that allows you to pump up the pressure to one while isolating the other and vice versa then setting the serving pressure on the reg again.  It is a small inconvenience but better than having $200 worth of kit sitting there that you use sporadically.  Seriously spend the money on extra kegs.  One thing you need to be aware of is the batches are smaller at 20L and you will need next to no bottles.  So you can sell those. 

 

Oh and your dreaming if you think kegging not another rabbit hole it is it is just shallower. 

Edited April 4, 2020 by MartyG1525230263

[Red devil 44]

1 hour ago, MartyG1525230263 said:

Great set up there. So how many empties waiting to be filled?  I usually have 1 in line to be used like you, one full in the brew fridge cold crashing and 1 empty ready for the next fermented brew.  

Cheers mate, 5 empties at the moment, 4 full ones waiting their turn in my cellar , 3 fermenters going at the moment, they’ll be kegged over the Easter break. I’ll CC them around Mon/Tues ready for the long weekend. You have a pretty good set up yourself, I’m about to inherit another fridge from a relative who doesn’t want it anymore, so that means I can have my all fridge back ( which is acting as a drinks fridge in the laundry ) so might convert that to a keg serving fridge. 
 

 

[Marty_G]

32 minutes ago, Red devil 44 said:

Cheers mate, 5 empties at the moment, 4 full ones waiting their turn in my cellar

Take not @Journeyman  another 9 kegs that aren't in the Kegger.    Gee Red your got quite the production line going. So how long do your kegs condition for. I have found for my taste is 4 to 6 weeks is best for non hop forward beers and 2-3 weeks for the hop bombs. 

[Journeyman]

58 minutes ago, MartyG1525230263 said:

 

Not sure if you are confused. Pouring pressure and carbing pressure are the same pressure if you don't force carb.  The set and forget method is hook it up at serving pressure for a week and bingo it is ready.  Or am I confused and you know that?  Anyway the manifold has shut off valves that allows you to pump up the pressure to one while isolating the other and vice versa then setting the serving pressure on the reg again.  It is a small inconvenience but better than having $200 worth of kit sitting there that you use sporadically.  Seriously spend the money on extra kegs.  One thing you need to be aware of is the batches are smaller at 20L and you will need next to no bottles.  So you can sell those. 

Oh and your dreaming if you think kegging not another rabbit hole it is it is just shallower. 

Yeah... I realise it's a rabbit hole.  But having just spent 1.5 hours standing at the sink cleaning and sanitising 60 bottles...

I'm thinking of still doing larger-than-20L brews and bottling a few from each batch. Then I have beer to take with me to friends etc. I figure I'd sell my 160+ PET's and keep the long necks for bottling.

The force carbing thing is not a plan for onging production, but I wouldn't mind having it as an option without having to interrupt the on-tap flow. I would normally do the set-and-forget method but figure the dual-pressure manifold gives me the option without having to invest in extra reg and gas.

[Red devil 44]

10 minutes ago, MartyG1525230263 said:

Take not @Journeyman  another 9 kegs that aren't in the Kegger.    Gee Red your got quite the production line going. So how long do your kegs condition for. I have found for my taste is 4 to 6 weeks is best for non hop forward beers and 2-3 weeks for the hop bombs. 

Usually they all condition for 2-3 months in my cellar, once I get stocks up. Brewing a fair bit to catch up after Xmas. I’m a big Pilsner fan, but only a K & K brewer, haven’t ventured down the rabbit hole to AG yet

[Red devil 44]

14 minutes ago, Journeyman said:

Yeah... I realise it's a rabbit hole.  But having just spent 1.5 hours standing at the sink cleaning and sanitising 60 bottles...

I'm thinking of still doing larger-than-20L brews and bottling a few from each batch. Then I have beer to take with me to friends etc. I figure I'd sell my 160+ PET's and keep the long necks for bottling.

The force carbing thing is not a plan for onging production, but I wouldn't mind having it as an option without having to interrupt the on-tap flow. I would normally do the set-and-forget method but figure the dual-pressure manifold gives me the option without having to invest in extra reg and gas.

I went straight to kegging, couldn’t be bothered scrubbing bottles, got too many other tings to do. You won’t look back once you keg JM

[Marty_G]

26 minutes ago, Journeyman said:

'm thinking of still doing larger-than-20L brews and bottling a few from each batch. Then I have beer to take with me to friends etc.

Yep I fell into that trap as well.  Didn't happen but was a good thought.  

[Titan]

2 hours ago, Journeyman said:

Then I have beer to take with me to friends etc.

More importantly is competion entry. 

I have a standard 2 tap kegerator that holds three 19l kegs (may add a third tap soon). But i have 6kg and 2.6kg cylinders and 3 regulators (one spare). I just find this more convenient certainly if one of the cylinders runs out and LHBS has run out of swaps (yes it happens). Fermenting freezer acts as keg carbonation when it doesn't have an fv in there. 

[Pezzza]

6 hours ago, Red devil 44 said:

Here is the pic JM, 4 kegs on serving pressure, one on the right currently cooled and carbing up on high pressure.

Mate tis a beautiful thing Red.... all nice and neat and tidy.  Good job.  And thanks for your ongoing help in the world of Keggeration

[Pezzza]

4 hours ago, Red devil 44 said:

haven’t ventured down the rabbit hole to AG yet

Come on now mate you know you need to take the leap ; )  

(Ha ha only joshing - know you are working on more space for the future - and all this AG STUFF does take up more room and time - but the results are truly outstanding)

One thing tho is fer sher - ha ha - you have got the keggeration game covered for when the AG Brews start coming out hey!

[Red devil 44]

1 hour ago, Bearded Burbler said:

Mate tis a beautiful thing Red.... all nice and neat and tidy.  Good job.  And thanks for your ongoing help in the world of Keggeration

No probs mate, happy to help

[Red devil 44]

1 hour ago, Bearded Burbler said:

Come on now mate you know you need to take the leap ; )  

(Ha ha only joshing - know you are working on more space for the future - and all this AG STUFF does take up more room and time - but the results are truly outstanding)

One thing tho is fer sher - ha ha - you have got the keggeration game covered for when the AG Brews start coming out hey!

Yeah look I’m actually happy with my K & K brews, but AG does appeal as I will have a crack at most things and feel confident I could nail it, but need more space. My worry is it seems like a sh#tload of work, not that I’m afraid of work but I have a truckload of other things to do so K &K works for me and I am genuinely happy with my results. 

[Pezzza]

19 minutes ago, Red devil 44 said:

My worry is it seems like a sh#tload of work,

Yeah I reckon AG is a fair amount of work - maybe I am slow in the whole process too - but KnK with Liquid Malts does a good job and is way way faster without a doubt mate.

Edited April 4, 2020 by Bearded Burbler

[Marty_G]

9 hours ago, Red devil 44 said:

Yeah look I’m actually happy with my K & K brews, but AG does appeal as I will have a crack at most things and feel confident I could nail it, but need more space. My worry is it seems like a sh#tload of work, not that I’m afraid of work but I have a truckload of other things to do so K &K works for me and I am genuinely happy with my results. 

I was the same about AG, I was interested but was really happy with my K&K results. There is no doubt that if you treat K&K properly it make good beer and it is obvious you are. Temp control and keg conditioning. You really are doing it right. However, yep there is always an however in brewing, AG is quantum leap.  Brew day is about 5 hours but it takes longer than just brew day. There is the is couple of hours of accumulated time spent researching and putting a recipe together then getting the grains and hop sorted.  I usually weigh out my grist the day before so it is ready and the hops are done on the day.  It really is a great process that immerses you in the art of making beer.  

[Otto Von Blotto]

Regarding gas pressure, dual regulators etc. 

It depends. I don't use a dual regulator, but I still am able to fast carbonate a keg while serving from another one, simply by turning off the gas to the serving keg on the manifold. You can still pour the beer. So no, you don't absolutely need a dual regulator to be able to do it.

Mostly however, I'm putting in two full kegs and quick carbonating them at the same time, so it's only the soda water being served on its own pressure for that 24 hour period. If it starts pouring a bit slow I just give it a couple of seconds of gas to get the pressure back up. Easy.

[Journeyman]

14 hours ago, Titan said:

More importantly is competion entry. 

Competition? *gulps*  Not sure I'm anywhere near that standard and also haven't heard of any close to Murray Bridge.

[Journeyman]

18 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

Regarding gas pressure, dual regulators etc. 

It depends. I don't use a dual regulator, but I still am able to fast carbonate a keg while serving from another one, simply by turning off the gas to the serving keg on the manifold. You can still pour the beer. So no, you don't absolutely need a dual regulator to be able to do it.

Mostly however, I'm putting in two full kegs and quick carbonating them at the same time, so it's only the soda water being served on its own pressure for that 24 hour period. If it starts pouring a bit slow I just give it a couple of seconds of gas to get the pressure back up. Easy.

Well I'd rather get a single Harris than a cheap dual regulator. Been looking around and presently kegs seem in short supply. So next step is to look at costs of the o-rings etc to refurbish them if I can find gumtree ones - I might luck out and get good condition ones but better to have kit handy in case things don't work than sitting waiting for stuff to arrive.

I'm thinking:
3 tap conversion for the fridge 
6 kg gas bottle
Bracket for bottle to go on side of fridge - (it's a maybe - depends where I site the fridge but thinking I'd rather have it up for easy access and view of gauges. (back and knees problems)
601 Reg
4 kegs for now, (2 on, 2 off and a tap to spare) unless I can find a good deal somewhere
CMB disconnects, (at least 4 sets but if costs permit, 6 so I'm covered for extra kegs)
Dual pressure manifold (it's cheap enough and makes things easy, but I can leave it out if keg costs go beyond budget plus early comment was there's not much difference in manifolds like there is in Regs)
Extra beer and gas line
Spares for refurbish kegs
Drip tray to go on fridge

Is there any point/need to think about a fan for inside the fridge? I'm thinking warm kegs might block airflow a bit and let the active kegs get warm. Not sure if that's a thing? I figure one side will be new kegs as constantly moving things to put them in the back could be annoying after a while. Again, not sure if it's a thing but trying to think ahead on issues.

Grommets for holes in the fridge - is it just a Bunnings visit or do fridge doors & walls need special ones to protect the lines and seal the holes?

[Otto Von Blotto]

Seal kits are cheap as. 

I find putting warm kegs in does affect the temperature of the other ones that are already in there and cold. I don't have an issue with it much with beer kegs because I'm always putting the two in warm to chill down together. It does become a problem when I have to refill the soda water, so I usually put it in just after pouring the last beer of the day. Otherwise the warming effect makes the beers pour foam. I doubt a fan would prevent this, they just need time to chill down. 

[Marty_G]

1 hour ago, Journeyman said:

Grommets for holes in the fridge - is it just a Bunnings visit or do fridge doors & walls need special ones to protect the lines and seal the holes?

No need for that. Just drill the hole the same diameter as the gas line. I have never had an issue with not using grommets.   For a guy who is setting up a keg fridge you are really making it sound far harder than it is. 

As far as the warm kegs I store mine in the brew fridge at CC temp as I don't brew until I get an empty keg. So the CCd keg  goes from brew fridge to the Kegger. Then I start fermenting which takes no more than a week under pressure to get to CC. When the CC is at around 5⁰ I transfer it to the empty keg which has some gelatin in it. Then complete the cold crash in the fridge at 2^o until it needs to go into the keg fridge then start again.  So am holding my spare kegs cold all the time sometimes for a couple of weeks in the brew fridge.  So I have one in the kegger and one in the brew fridge.   Now the Kveik opens a whole new rabbit hole because fermenting with that I don't need a brew fridge. All I need is a heat belt.   So the brew fridge becomes a conditioning/lagering fridge.   Gee I hope that make sense. 

Edited April 5, 2020 by MartyG1525230263

[Journeyman]

1 hour ago, MartyG1525230263 said:

No need for that. Just drill the hole the same diameter as the gas line. I have never had an issue with not using grommets.   For a guy who is setting up a keg fridge you are really making it sound far harder than it is. 

As far as the warm kegs I store mine in the brew fridge at CC temp as I don't brew until I get an empty keg. So the CCd keg  goes from brew fridge to the Kegger. Then I start fermenting which takes no more than a week under pressure to get to CC. When the CC is at around 5⁰ I transfer it to the empty keg which has some gelatin in it. Then complete the cold crash in the fridge at 2^o until it needs to go into the keg fridge then start again.  So am holding my spare kegs cold all the time sometimes for a couple of weeks in the brew fridge.  So I have one in the kegger and one in the brew fridge.   Now the Kveik opens a whole new rabbit hole because fermenting with that I don't need a brew fridge. All I need is a heat belt.   So the brew fridge becomes a conditioning/lagering fridge.   Gee I hope that make sense. 

Yep, makes sense. I might not be able to emulate it until I get a stock of kegs but I understand your process.

I may seem to be making it harder but I'm just trying to consider all possibles - if I do something wrong after spending the amount needed it could be some time before I have funds to correct things.

And I've been reading up on kegging here and elsewhere and trying to be in advance of some of the problems I've seen.

e.g. with the warming issue I was wondering if those neoprene sleeves for kegs might be worth getting but your process makes sense - the kegs going in will be full of CC'd brew so not warm anyway. 

Edited April 5, 2020 by Journeyman

[Journeyman]

Are there any issues getting kegs with new ball lock lids but that are converted from pin locks?

For that matter - any issues going with pin lock lids except for ball locks being more common and parts being more available?

Edited April 5, 2020 by Journeyman

[Popo the Reprobate]

7 hours ago, Journeyman said:

Been looking around and presently kegs seem in short supply. So next step is to look at costs of the o-rings etc to refurbish them if I can find gumtree ones - I might luck out and get good condition ones but better to have kit handy in case things don't work than sitting waiting for stuff to arrive.

I have had good experiences with KegLand second hand kegs and the refurbished ones (new seals, lids and posts) from Cheeky Peak. A seal kit - or some spares would be a wise investment though.

[Journeyman]

27 minutes ago, Popo said:

I have had good experiences with KegLand second hand kegs and the refurbished ones (new seals, lids and posts) from Cheeky Peak. A seal kit - or some spares would be a wise investment though.

CPB is out of refurbished. So I've been looking around - seems to be a few cheap ball locks which are pin lock conversions - in theory they should be same as a ball loc original... right? The only thing I can think of is the lids/o-rings are different sizes to normal BL kegs making the replacements difficult to source? I'll check kegland...

EDIT: Hmm... KL have 2nd hand ones, non-refurbs, for $64 - if I add a complete keg lid pack it's an extra $12-50 - cheapest option I have seen so far. I'm not fussed about them having to look schmicko & they claim they were pressure tested in the US before being sent so new lid/seals should be all I need...? I'd be getting CMB diconnects anyway.

Edited April 5, 2020 by Journeyman

[Red devil 44]

22 minutes ago, Journeyman said:

CPB is out of refurbished. So I've been looking around - seems to be a few cheap ball locks which are pin lock conversions - in theory they should be same as a ball loc original... right? The only thing I can think of is the lids/o-rings are different sizes to normal BL kegs making the replacements difficult to source? I'll check kegland...

EDIT: Hmm... KL have 2nd hand ones, non-refurbs, for $64 - if I add a complete keg lid pack it's an extra $12-50 - cheapest option I have seen so far. I'm not fussed about them having to look schmicko & they claim they were pressure tested in the US before being sent so new lid/seals should be all I need...? I'd be getting CMB diconnects anyway.

Once you have your C02 Cylinder and Regulator set up you can pressure test them yourself once re-kitted, if it has a PRV ( Pressure Relief Valve ) fitted you cannot over pressurise them or blow anything up because the PRV will let go first.