King Ruddager Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 Yes, I know, two vs. too vs. to. It's a pun - you'll see ... Somewhere along the line I must've got the impression that whirlpools should be performed twice at the end of a boil. I've been doing it that way without question, but yesterday during my second whirlpool I noticed the wort go from clear to murky as I stirred up all the stuff. You can see it fairly clearly in (fast forward to 3:15 if you hate fun). So, the second whirlpool ... have I been misled, have I completely imagined the need for it, or is there a good reason to perform it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 I dislike fun and couldn't be bothered watching the video I only whirlpool once. At flame out I let the wort sit for 10 minutes to let the convection currents settle down. Then whirlpool and let sit for a further 10 minutes. The kettle is then drained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 Never heard of doing two whirlpools at the end of a boil. If you think about it, it really makes no sense anyway. You do the first one that gets the gunk to settle out in a cone and then stir it all up again just so it can do it again? Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 I go no whirlpool at all. Don't see the point actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylon Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 A great brewer recently told me about whirl pools in conversation over chilling or cubes as I asked his advise... as im also interested in trying cubes! He said he would never cube as he does two flame out additions in most of his brews... I asked him why he does two! He uses a lot of hops in his brews... he says... The first whirlpool a vary small amount of IBUs, flavour & aroma from the Flame out... The second contains small amount flavour zero IBUs and more aroma and he stated that the key is adding hops after 78 degrees... He also dry hops after fermentation... Ive now just started applying just the one whirl pool @ 78 degrees then chilling wort before pitching, and dry hopping after fermentation Tryed my last brew and its truly is amazing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylon Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 My new way to go is early bittering 90-45min then late boils include 15-10 min boil the... 5-1min boil+steep then ... flame out 78 degrees addition whirl pool... Then dry hop after fermentation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 Yeah I have to say I don't bother whirlpooling it either and haven't for a long time. Last time I tried it, the trub got dragged into the tap outlet earlier than when I didn't whirlpool it. I seem to be getting more trub in my urn lately though, so I might give it a go on the next batch and see if it helps get more wort into the cube before the trub starts making its way there. Another idea I saw on AHB was to get a stainless steel bowl and cut the bottom out of it, put this in the urn at flameout, then whirlpool it so the majority of the trub settles inside the bowl and is kept away from the tap outlet. Thinking about trying that out as well actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylon Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 I don't even care about the trub, It all settles in fermentation... 78 degree whirlpool is way to go get it all in the fermenter... unless your hoping grassy hops such as sazz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylon Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 the finings of the trump are already in the there so the solids are just an eye sight it wont matter... Get it all in there it equels yeast cake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 Yes but you don't want hot break in the fermenter as it can lead to problems with the beer further along the line, especially if it is something that is aged for a while. Cold break isn't so much of an issue, but hot break you want kept out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilch Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 MR KR, you are an idiot....lol Another good vid. How long do you Whirlpool for? I didn't do it on my first two BIAB but will give it a crack on my next one (Pirate Life Pale Ale clone) in a couple of weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 Hey KR I'm learning something new here from Hairy and the crew. I whirlpool as soon as I turn the heat off, I find it makes a big difference as all the hop matter goes to the centre. I need to leave the trub in the kettle as I use a plate chiller and my kettle hasn't got a false bottom or any type of filtering pickup. Don't need that plate chiller picking up. I only whirlpool once, never heard of two. Never considered a 10 minute rest either. Cheers & Beers Scottie Valley Brew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylon Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 78 degrees flame out additions get it all in... if your worried about hot break add a teas spoon of cement kelsey just kidding mate... to me the second addition after 78 degrees does make sence... im quite happy to die knowing no one else agrees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 I wasn't saying anything against adding hops twice after flameout. What I'm saying is, hot break is best left in the kettle. You'd be hard pressed to find any decent brewer recommending to chuck it all into the fermenter. They all do their damndest to keep it out. There's a great big long thread over on AHB about the reasons why it is desired to leave the hot break behind in the kettle, it gets a bit scientific but it's really interesting and makes a lot of sense. At the end of the day if it mattered none to put this crap in the fermenter then the breweries wouldn't spend a heap of time, energy and money on ways to keep it out, would they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylon Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 yeh im on my forth batch so I am fully pro now Kelsey. I cant add it all in my fermenter as ive got a keeggle kettle that leaves a litre of crap behind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 I wish I only got a litre of crap to leave behind after the boil. Might actually be able to fill a 25 litre cube without having to squeeze air out like I used to be able to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylon Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 Im doing around 46- litres pre boils so far so 1 litre is far from my heart brother... Im actually interested in getting a 70 litre boiler so I can get 3 kegs and 6 nong necks in a batch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 I normally end up with about 3 litres of trubby shit in the bottom of the urn, and that's where it stays. You'll never completely keep this stuff out of the FV, because some will always get transferred across, but it is best to minimize it. Sometimes I do allow a small amount through if it will help top up the cube but I won't tip the whole damn lot in there no way in the world. I don't really care about what Brulosophy did with that experiment of chucking all the hot break in the FV... it is considered to be bad practice in pretty well all brewing circles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 When discussing whirlpooling in relation to hops, it is just a glorified steep. The hops are simply added at a point in the brewing process where the boil has finished & at the start of separating the wort from the break material (grain solids & hop solids). It's just a smart time to add those flavour/aroma hops as it saves time, & kills two birds with one stone (note the 'two' reference! ) Depending on your equipment & processes, the collection of wort & separation from the solids, may take 10-20mins. Then allowing the wort to sit for a further 10-15 mins equates to approx. 30mins that the hops have actually been steeping in the hot wort. That's a fairly recognized standard timeframe for a hop steep. To gain the most from the hops by whirlpooling, Hairy's approach (Post#2) is the way to go. BYO Magazine - Mr. Wizard: What does "whirlpooling" your beer mean, & how do you do it? It's just a form of steeping, & nothing to get yourself in a spin about! Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigantor Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 I sort of do a whirlpool when doing the final stir of the fermenter just before pitching. But don't do the suggested 10 min whirlpool - thats 10 mins I'll never get back. The cold crashing appears to clump everything together anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 Whirlpooling is a post-boil technique done in the kettle designed to cause all the hot break and hop material and other solids to settle out in a neat little cone in the middle of the bottom of it, supposedly making it easier to prevent this crap from getting into the fermenter. It has nothing to do with the fermenter (aside from keeping that trub out of it) or post-fermentation cold crashing. Sometimes hops are added during this time as well but not always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 Sometimes hops are added during this time as well but not always. +1 to that. The term has been somewhat taken to mean something slightly different as alluded to by the lustful one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 Whirlpooling is a post-boil technique done in the kettle designed to cause all the hot break and hop material and other solids to settle out in a neat little cone in the middle . Exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylon Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 Helps chilling down wort most people wirl pool with a chiller and spoon, Late hop additions are hugely the most important reason for a whirlpool adding flavours after the boil in decreased temperature extracting Zero IBUs Lets say your brewing a pilsner without late hop aromo! well you would whirlpool as Kelsey stated and leave trub behind. After reading the Great trub exBEERiment: results are in So if your brewing for added hop flavour and aroma in ales for example... you will benifit late hop additions and adding the lot to the fermenter! Ive added hop bags that were in fermentation and added them in plain water left em in fridge to see if there was life left... and yes there was plenty. My opinion is the more hops in beer including in the trub the better, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 Yes but you're missing the point - you don't want the kettle trub in the fermenter, EVER. I don't really care what the f*** Brulosophy says, it's bad practice that has the potential to ruin your beer. Just like pretty well all of his experiments are, in reality. The only reason they don't have any noticeable effects is because he only does one dodgy practice each batch and then drinks it in 2 or 3 weeks - everything else in the process is done properly. Either that or him and his tasting crew have no tastebuds left. Don't get me wrong, it's an interesting blog, but the results of the experiments are hardly solid evidence of anything. By all means, throw hops in during the whirlpool, throw them in when it goes below 80C or whatever it is - but you don't need to transfer the kettle trub into the fermenter to get the full value of those hop additions. The whole reason behind a whirlpool is as I said, to keep that shit out of it, regardless of the style of beer you're brewing. You will find that advice given by pretty well every experienced brewer you come across, because it is backed up by proper scientific research and testing and there are very good reasons why the trub is kept out of the FV, not some Joe Bloggs doing a backyard experiment on his own at home. I trust the former much more than the latter, but all I can do is offer the advice. Whether you take it on board or not is up to you. Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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