ben 10 Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 I don't ever plan to become a 'wort storing' cuber' date=' so that aspect is something only those who cube their wort will have to worry about, not me. [img']happy[/img] Never say never. It is rather convenient to be able to make the wort in advance at times. And yes, there is crap EVERYWHERE - on the net, in books, coming from people's mouths. You need very fine filter paper to work your way through all of that at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 That's my favourite thing about no-chill, the convenience of brewing whenever and fermenting whenever. I have a batch CCing at the moment, but doing a brew day today because this is when I have the time. But, as you say, it's a personal choice. Separation of hot break from wort isn't, well, it is I guess but you'd be stupid if you deliberately let it all into the FV. Even chillers don't always chill the wort immediately upon flameout. I'm not saying AHB is the brewing bible (although maybe it is since the real bible is full of shit too ) but there are some very knowledgeable folks on there. I have seen my share of rubbish too; there is one regular poster who always comes up with ridiculous ideas. I don't know where he gets them from, but they follow no logic whatsoever. Forgive my misunderstanding about your filtering idea; since we're talking about post-boil and pre-fermentation separation of wort from the hot break, I figured that's what you were referring to. But, yes if you want to filter it out of the FV that's entirely your choice of course. I do find it simpler to just throw in some powder or whatever and let it sit for a few days, pretty much achieves the same results anyway. Or at least results that I'm happy with. I guess the cold crashing phase helps with compacting the trub as well as aiding in yeast flocculation (itself aided by isinglass), so I end up with very little in the kegs as a result. Every keg so far when I've opened it after it emptying, there has been a very small layer of yeast on the bottom, with most of it in that little indent in the middle. Probably about the same amount of sediment you'd get in 2 or 3 tallies. For 19 odd litres of beer I think that's pretty kickarse. Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 To filter or not to filter, it's a personal choice really. Some may react to live yeast in their beer while some recognised the health benefit. The thing to be careful of when it comes to your personal preferences is influencing those who have yet to decide their brewing preferences. To say that filtering prevents blockages suggests that if you don't filter then you get blockages; unless you are doing something drastically wrong then this is not the case in my experience. I have been kegging for 4 years, 70 brews in total, and I have never had a blocked poppet, pickup tube, delivery line or tap. I only started cold crashing in the last 12 months when I started dry hopping commando style, and even with hop matter freely suspended in the wort I haven't had a blockage. As for keg cleaning I do no more than rinse with hot water to remove the sediment, add another 4 litres of hot water, seal, shake and tip. Finally I add two litres of boiling water, shake, activate both poppets purge and tip. No issues and no hassles. Personally I love the idea that there is some live yeast in my beer, if I had to filter then I'd source my brews via the keg or growler from one of the many (and increasing daily) boutique breweries in my area. But at present the simple addition of a whirlfloc (when I remember - and when I forget I get chill haze) a 20 second whirlpool (which I never forget), kettle losses (which I account for), a coopers DIY fermenter (that leaves the FV trub undisturbed) and a two to three day cold crash are all I need to get my beer clear enough out of the keg that not one person ever complains about it, and apart from a short bad run when I first went AG is always of good quality and often turns out excellent. Cheers & Beers Scottie Valley Brew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 Just one more thing Kelsey With all due respect I find your put down of other people's spirituality unnecessary in this discussion. For me it detracted from your post and I didn't really want to read anymore of it. As much as I can I try not to show my political or spiritual leanings on this forum when discussing the beer and brewing hobby. I mean no offense, I would just like to pint out that comments like that can insult other people's beliefs. Cheers & Beers Scottie Valley Brew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 Hiya Scottie. To filter or not to filter' date=' it's a personal choice really. Some may react to live yeast in their beer while some recognised the health benefit.[/quote']I'm led to believe there are various grades of filtering paper available. Not all will strip the yeast from the beer. The thing to be careful of when it comes to your personal preferences is influencing those who have yet to decide their brewing preferences. To say that filtering prevents blockages suggests that if you don't filter then you get blockages' date=' unless you are doing something drastically wrong then this is total hogwash.[/quote']You openly admit that you use at least one coagulant throughout your brewing process. Hypothetically I'm talking about not using them at all & relying on the filter to separate the wort from the break material/trub etc. If I don't at least do that before pouring the beer into my keg, there is a fair chance a lot of sludge would be transferred into the keg & could increase the chances of blockages. Fair enough? I'm not trying to influence anybody. What I have offered is an alternative for people to at least consider. Filtering gets little to no airplay on the forum, & I just wanted those interested in clarification of their beer to know that other options outside using coagulants exists. What people do with that information is completely up to them. Cheers & good brewing, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 None taken mate. I guess sometimes I get annoyed at being told by people who believe the stuff in that book that I have no hope and nothing to live for etc. etc. because I don't hold those beliefs. Of course, it's a minority who say things like this. Sometimes I let that annoyance out although I acknowledge that here isn't really the best place for it. Anyway, I'm almost finished my first beer of the brew day so I should go and get some cleaning up done of equipment I don't need any more today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 An atheist, vegan and crossfitter walk into a bar. The only reason I knew was because they kept telling everyone I walked into a bar once and it really hurt. Seriously, it was about crotch high and I was walking through Paddington in the dark. True story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 Kelsey It is quite possible that those "Perfect People" have not even read that collection of books themselves and are relying on someone else's interpretation. As for your life who are they to tell you how to live it? Everyone lives in a glass house and therefore throwing stones is dangerous Good luck with your brew. Hairy or Don't ever let us take ourselves too seriously. Lusty, you quoted my post before I edited it, I had tempered my language bit removing the hogwash reference. True I use the whirfloc, and when I forget it I had chill haze, 2 kegs running, from the first pour to the last. Apart from that the beers with or without whirlfloc were pretty much the same. Head building retention may have been different but I am not consistent in that area anyway and I don't lose to much sleep over it, if its white and frothy on top and has bubbles in it then I am pretty much happy. What I am after is the flavour, and that is the important thing at the end of the day regardless of the process. For example I am going to find it really hard not to brew my Blundstone Pale Ale again, straight kit and kilo with a 5 minute Galaxy boil. I did the same with the TC Coopers IPA last year, a partial mash which I had to repeat. Cheers & Beers Scottie Valley Brew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 Hypothetically I'm talking about not using them at all & relying on the filter to separate the wort from the break material/trub etc. I feel you would still be better using whirlfloc as it clumps the unwanted muck together. Would this not make filtering more effective? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 Hypothetically I'm talking about not using them at all & relying on the filter to separate the wort from the break material/trub etc. I feel you would still be better using whirlfloc as it clumps the unwanted muck together. Would this not make filtering more effective? Absolutely. No argument from me there. I think my initial point has been missed. From merely a costings point of view' date=' surely rinsing out a filter is cheaper than constantly buying more coagulants? It's nice to know that Hairy isn't prejudice at all. He obviously has a couple of dwarf mates that drag him out pub crawling to a few of their favourite mini-bars! [img']tongue[/img] Don't feel you can't take them to a regular sized bar Hairy, just help them up onto the bar stools! That should help reduce injuring the Jatz Crackers! Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 I just like to have a laugh Anyway, haze FTW. http://www.philly.com/philly/food/20160414_No_clear_consensus_on_cloudy_beer.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 I think my initial point has been missed. From merely a costings point of view' date=' surely rinsing out a filter is cheaper than constantly buying more coagulants? [/size'] Hey Anthony Then I would prefer to have that filter in my Kettle, somehow. If it is possible and it filters out the haze-producing proteins and beta glucans then yes that would be a better option than buying more coagulants. However I am still at the point where I can't find the motivation to add a pickup or braided filter to my kettle. Cheers & Beers Scottie Valley Brew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 I think my initial point has been missed. From merely a costings point of view' date=' surely rinsing out a filter is cheaper than constantly buying more coagulants? [/quote']It may be, but the coagulants used in the kettle serve a different purpose from those that some use in the FV. As we've already clarified (pardon the pun ) you're not intending to use the filter post-boil. The point of the coagulants used in the kettle is to prevent as much break material as possible from entering the fermenter, so either way, you're gonna have to use them if you move to full batch AG brewing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 Hi Hairy. http://www.philly.com/philly/food/20160414_No_clear_consensus_on_cloudy_beer.html It is interesting how differently people view haze or cloudiness in beer. One of the blokes in that article said' date=' "A hazy beer reminds me too much of bad home brew, of muddled flavors," he said. "If I see haze, I'm a bit worried about what's about to hit my palate." Whereas I'm the opposite. I look at a hazy beer (in a good way) & ask myself, "Yum...what is causing that?" & can't wait to pour it down my throat & find out! [img']lol[/img] Anyway' date=' haze FTW.[/quote']+1 Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 I can appreciate the muddled flavours side of that statement as I do perceive hazy beers that way too for whatever reason, however, I don't equate haze with bad brewing practices or ever be worried about what I'm about to drink just because it's hazy. Some haze is bad, for example, permanent haze, but other forms of haze cause no problems at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylon Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 I ate some humble pie, Ignorance is a bliss Brew day today so much to learn... First four All grain brews done in the dark before today can you believe that! I KID YOU NOT IN THE DARK! Hear is me giving advice based on zero experience in allgrain... Today I did my whirl pool and saw the trub settle after the whirl pool flame out OMG A massive cloud of crud trub YUK!!!! that crap stay away YUK I cant believe I put that crap in my beer... Im such DICKHEAD once again... For dinner tonight is homemade humble pie BOYS You guys are a great bunch of blokes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylon Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 In all due respect its easy to post some thoughts after a few beers mid week but in hind sight ive made some stupid comments on this post... Its actually quite embarrassing... considering im left with some realy crap beer now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Its actually quite embarrassing.... It's all good Waylon..... I'd still have a beer with you - probably one of mine though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 No dramas, the best way to learn is to experience it. I'm sure your beer won't be crappy. Everything will settle in the FV. When I used to make partial mash beers, I didn't have a tap on my kettle. After chilling, I would pour the wort into the FV through a strainer. Even so, a lot of the trub and break material went into the FV. One of my bigger beers with a heap of wheat ended up with so much trub that it was above the tap in the FV. After a week I had to rack to secondary or else I would have had a lot of trouble bottling. The beer was fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Yes it's probably more the potential for the break material to cause problems, most notably premature staling, that is the reason behind keeping it out of the FV, not a 100% certainty that it will always cause these problems in every batch. I don't think your beer will end up crappy either, just drink it fresh to eliminate the possibility. Besides, you've learned about it through this thread and taken the advice on board, that's a good thing. I did a pilsner batch that ended up with pretty well all the hot break going into the cube just to be able to fill it to a decent enough level to more easily squeeze out the air, and a fair amount of that being transferred to the FV. My trub level in there wasn't quite as high as Hairy's batch, but it was up to the tap and I ended up using a stocking to filter it into the bottling bucket. That beer wasn't the greatest, but that was due to the recipe rather than the hot break. It wasn't stale or off or anything, it was just that the recipe I had to use didn't provide the flavours I wanted. Other cubes of pilsner also had a fair bit of hot break in them for the same reason although I kept the vast majority of it out of the FV. After that I realised why I was getting a lower volume than intended, which I quickly rectified on subsequent batches, so was able to minimise the amount of trub going into the cube too. Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodtime G Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Other cubes of pilsner also had a fair bit of hot break in them for the same reason although I kept the vast majority of it out of the FV. After that I realised why I was getting a lower volume than intended' date=' which I quickly rectified on subsequent batches, so was able to minimise the amount of trub going into the cube too. [/quote'] Slight threadjack, but why were you getting the lower volume? After my first all grain batch on the weekend I ended up with lower volume than expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Slight threadjack' date=' but why were you getting the lower volume? After my first all grain batch on the weekend I ended up with lower volume than expected.[/quote'] Longer than usual boil time and didn't fully account for it in the pre-boil volume. Other batches with my usual boil time had been getting reduced volumes as well, because I'd inadvertently changed my original process at some stage without even realising it. I have a point on my urn where I start the boil timer, and with about 20-30 minutes left I get the excess wort that drains from the bag into a bucket and tip that in.. usually about a litre or so drains from it during the boil. But I'd begun squeezing all the wort out of the bag pre-boil, starting the timer at the same point but not having that excess added back which of course lowered the volume post-boil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy-o Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 No dramas' date=' the best way to learn is to experience it. I'm sure your beer won't be crappy. Everything will settle in the FV. When I used to make partial mash beers, I didn't have a tap on my kettle. After chilling, I would pour the wort into the FV through a strainer. Even so, a lot of the trub and break material went into the FV. One of my bigger beers with a heap of wheat ended up with so much trub that it was above the tap in the FV. After a week I had to rack to secondary or else I would have had a lot of trouble bottling. The beer was fine.[/quote'] This is what I'm gonna have to deal with. I thought my wort was pretty clear but with yeast active and not a lot of trub settled yet the beer's very grainy - I'm interested to see how high it piles up with the cold crash. I'm used to dealing with the yeast fallout alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodtime G Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Cheers Kelsey, I was keen to keep things moving on Saturday night so I let the grain bag drain for a bit and gave it a few squeezes. I'm guessing I didn't maximise the leftover liquid left in there. There is always next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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