King Ruddager Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 So, flavour hops can be added anywhere between half way through the boil to flameout, right? Other than the IBU contribution, what's the difference between hops added at 0, 5, 10, 15, 20 ... etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 I would guess that the later the addition, the more flavour and the longer that hoppy goodness will last in the bottle before it starts to fade ... maybe? Although i seem to remember lusty talking about hop additions once before and how because bitterness seems to last longer than hop flavour it implies the longer it is in the boil, the longer the flavour will last. Hopefully someone who actually knows what they are talking about will chime in here anytime soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 ...Although i seem to remember lusty talking about hop additions once before and how because bitterness seems to last longer than hop flavour it implies the longer it is in the boil' date=' the longer the flavour will last.[/quote']Yes (IMHO). My belief is just that. The problem that arises by following that theory is that bitterness builds up quickly especially if using "new world" high alpha hops in this early to mid point in the boil. It's because of this problem area & particularly the oil content & co-humulone level of the newer high alpha hops, that I have more recently been playing around with lower alpha/noble type hops in this area of the boil. To me there is a consolidation factor of flavour with hops used in the boil that over a period of aging time, diminishes with hops that have spent less time in the boil where those flavour compounds become less enduring. FWH'ing is the best method I've found to add hops early & consolidate some longevity of their flavours in the final beer even when conditioning for longer periods. It was interesting when sifting through the recently published BrewDog DIY DOG recipes (provided by Hairy & Ruddy) that there were some back-end bittering schedules that were similar to some recent experiments I've been doing in this area of my brewing. I love hops. I enjoy experimenting with them in all parts of brewing. When used the right way, in the right quantities, with the right malt bill, they MAKE THE BEER. Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Yes (IMHO). Look as much as Lusty can be overly zealous about his own beliefs with brewing... I'd think he probably can be listened too to some extent. I have not tested his theory and perhaps I should. Might do it actually. Brew two identical IPAs with my hopping schedule - FWH, flameout and dry and a more traditional with 20s and 15s and 10s... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Yes (IMHO). Look as much as Lusty can be overly zealous about his own beliefs with brewing... I'd think he probably can be listened too to some extent. Somewhere close to either side of 200 brews in the last 4-5 years using various hopping techniques & schedules' date=' combined with various malt bills & beer styles...well peoples, isn't that nice to know. [img']happy[/img] Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristinaS1 Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 So' date=' flavour hops can be added anywhere between half way through the boil to flameout, right? Other than the IBU contribution, what's the difference between hops added at 0, 5, 10, 15, 20 ... etc?[/quote'] Hi Ruddy. I am not sure if I am correct but my understanding is that additions towards the longer end of the last 20 minutes, from 20-10 minutes, are more for flavour and last longer, hence the name "flavour additions." And from 10 minutes to flameout they become progressively more about aroma than flavour, hence the name "aroma additions." A lot of older recipes just used 10 minute additions. I am not sure of the reason for this, whether it was because it offered some sort of compromise in terms of flavour and aroma, or if it had to do with the length of time they typically waited in those days to start drinking it. Lusty would know more about it than me. Cheers! -Chrisitna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 Yes (IMHO). Look as much as Lusty can be overly zealous about his own beliefs with brewing... I'd think he probably can be listened too to some extent. I have not tested his theory and perhaps I should. Might do it actually. Brew two identical IPAs with my hopping schedule - FWH' date=' flameout and dry and a more traditional with 20s and 15s and 10s... [/quote'] When no-chilling, your standard hop schedule is similar to a more traditional schedule. Lusty, what size boil do you have? Do you think your findings would differ slightly with a full size boil? Perhaps you need to go AG to find out. For scientific purposes only Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 Yes (IMHO). Look as much as Lusty can be overly zealous about his own beliefs with brewing... I'd think he probably can be listened too to some extent. I have not tested his theory and perhaps I should. Might do it actually. Brew two identical IPAs with my hopping schedule - FWH' date=' flameout and dry and a more traditional with 20s and 15s and 10s... [/quote'] When no-chilling, your standard hop schedule is similar to a more traditional schedule. Lusty, what size boil do you have? Do you think your findings would differ slightly with a full size boil? Perhaps you need to go AG to find out. For scientific purposes only I concede there may be in some cases, but I would like to believe that would be minimal. Given my smaller volume boils & liking hoppy beers, the main thing I have to be mindful of is to NOT overcrowd the boil with too much weight in hops. It is the main reason I steep my flameout additions separately these days. However, Isomerisation is isomerisation, & occurs regardless of boil size. Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 I think it is piss poor if you don't go AG to prove it. You know you want to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 I think it is piss poor if you don't go AG to prove it. You know you want to A ha! Sneaky buggar! Tangent maneuver. Knight to Queen four! Your move... Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 I think it is piss poor if you don't go AG to prove it. You know you want to A ha! Sneaky buggar! Tangent maneuver. Knight to Queen four! Your move... Lusty. Sorry' date=' I thought we were just making chess references now [img']innocent[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 I think it is piss poor if you don't go AG to prove it. You know you want to A ha! Sneaky buggar! Tangent maneuver. Knight to Queen four! Your move... Lusty. Sorry' date=' I thought we were just making chess references now [img']innocent[/img] Almost impossible to counter the "Murray Head" maneuver. Check mate. Good one Hairy! P.S. On the brewing side, it would be cheaper for you to do an extract/partial to disprove it. Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 Actually the ingredients for a full all grain batch are cheaper than any other brewing method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackgym Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 The brew before last I put down, a 150 Lashes clone, I steeped 12g of Amarillo in boiling water and dry hopped 25g of Nelson Sauvin hops. After 2 weeks bottled it has the sweetness but it doesn't linger on the palate. Is that because it hasn't been bottled long enough or is it the hopping methods? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 P.S. On the brewing side' date=' it would be cheaper for you to do an extract/partial to disprove it. [img']wink[/img] Cheers, Lusty.[/size] No way, I hate science. It is always trying to prove me wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 Actually the ingredients for a full all grain batch are cheaper than any other brewing method. That's only if you already have the equipment necessary to full volume mash & boil it! Cheers' date=' Lusty.[/size'] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 P.S. On the brewing side' date=' it would be cheaper for you to do an extract/partial to disprove it. [img']wink[/img] Cheers, Lusty.[/size] No way, I hate science. It is always trying to prove me wrong I'm hearin' that! That,... & a lot of fellow brewers! Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 The brew before last I put down' date=' [/quote'] 12g of Amarillo isn't much at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackgym Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 The brew before last I put down' date=' [/quote'] 12g of Amarillo isn't much at all. Okay, next tme I'll use 25g of Amarillo and 25g of Nelson Sauvin steeped in boiling water. Will that improve the retention of the hop flavour on the palate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnaman Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 G'day jackgym, this chart gives some idea of the information, but is a guide only. Your hop boil, if you do one is "better" in a mix of water and malt, either dry or liquid at 1040 gravity. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anzacpaul Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 The brew before last I put down' date=' [/quote'] 12g of Amarillo isn't much at all. Okay, next tme I'll use 25g of Amarillo and 25g of Nelson Sauvin steeped in boiling water. Will that improve the retention of the hop flavour on the palate? I've just cracked a bottle of my fruit salad ale, 25g each of galaxy and amarillo steeped, and then a further 25g amarillo dry hopped. When I bottled it, the amarillo aroma was amazing, 2 weeks when I opened a bottle, it had lost nearly all aroma and only pick up the amarillo on the end. It really has subsided. I will go with a 50g dry hop next time I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 When I bottled it' date=' the amarillo aroma was amazing, [/quote'] I find it actually improves after a while... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackgym Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 G'day jackgym' date=' this chart gives some idea of the information, but is a guide only. [img']wink[/img] Cheers. Thanks for the chart, Magnaman, it gives me a good guide. So, for instance, if I boil the hops for around 20 minutes I'll get the most flavour? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#20 Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 G'day jackgym' date=' this chart gives some idea of the information, but is a guide only. [img']wink[/img] Cheers. In need of a reference point/guideline when designing extract recipes, I have used this chart lately for my 2-3 latest brews. I have used Magnum @45 min to 60 mins for bittering and then the flavor/aroma hop(s) @20 mins, @7 mins and dry hop. One of them was a Citra pale ale (citra @20, 7 and dh). Absolutely delicious when young, but the aroma seems to fade away pretty fast on it after some weeks in the bottle. Anyone else having this experience? It may be the characteristics of the Citra this... I figured the 20,7,dh would be a nice hop schedule based on the information in this chart (max flavor at 20, max aroma at 7). But it's open for tweaking.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porschemad911 Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Caveat: I no-chill in a cube, so how my hop additions come through in the finished beer may differ to other methods of chilling. For hoppy beers I have settled on a hop schedule of FWH, at 5 minutes, at flameout and a dry hop. The FWH addition gives a foundation of bitterness, the 5 minutes and flameout additions give slightly different perspectives on flavour (and a bit of aroma) and the dry hop gives a hop aroma boost when appropriate to the recipe. For beers where a big hop aroma is not important, I'll skip the dry hop. For beers where the hopping is mostly about balancing the malt sweetness, I'll omit the 5 minute and flameout addition as well. For beers where the slightly 'raw' hop flavour that I notice from a flameout addition isn't desirable, I'll move the flameout addition in with the 5 minute addition. Cheers, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.