Fail thread (mistakes you’ve made 2024)

[Triple B Brewing]

On 1/27/2024 at 3:08 PM, iBooz2 said:

Yes, and it might be prudent for @Shamus O'Sean to check that the inky's relays (or SCR's in this case are not stuck "ON").  Do this by using a light bulb plugged into the heat side of inky and then by putting the temp sensor into ice water = light on and then later warm/hot water = light off.

To be sure to be sure as our Irish friends would say.

Firstly sorry for the late question on this thread and secondly sorry about your dead fridge @Shamus O'Sean .
After reading this thread I am a little confused as to why the Inkbird controller didn’t stop the heat belt from turning on - I must have missed something

I use a heating tube in my ferment fridge (they’re a common piece of kit used in the UK  to control dampness in wardrobes, etc. - they work great for the purpose I’m using it for). Mine is a 30cm, 60 watt model and has an inbuilt thermostat protection. I have it permanently plugged directly into my inkbird heating side and my fridge plugged directly into the cooling side. The small indication lights can be seen on the inkbird controller when a side has power being sent to it (red for heat and you quested it green for cooling). Thankfully I have not had a problem, but your loss Shamus has me doin the double check. 
I reckon @iBooz2 recommendation to look into an insurance claim is a very legitimate and good one.

Hoping there’s a positive update I haven’t seen yet for ya cobber  

[iBooz2]

Suspect, if the Inky tests out ok as I mentioned in a previous post then the heat belt may have been inadvertently plugged either into the "cooling side" or directly into the mains by mistake.  I know of one forum member (who will remain nameless) had them plugged in the wrong way round, i.e. fridge into the hot side and heat belt into the cool side and wondered why things were going pear shaped.  It is very easily done if the cords are the same style and colour.  I have a Dymo label on my heat source cords just to be sure as the controllers are not in an easy place to view the connections.

[Shamus O'Sean]

6 hours ago, Triple B Brewing said:

has an inbuilt thermostat protection

That probably would have been handy in my case.

Here's a step by step run down of what happened in my situation.

• Everything was plugged in properly. 
• The fridge and brew were at 12°C, lager fermenting temperature. 
• I switched the temperature controller to 18°C for the diacetyl rest. 
• The heat belt was on the top shelf of the fridge and the shelf is made of glass. 
• The temperature probe was taped to the side of the fermenter near the bottom of the fridge.
• There is only a smallish gap at the front of the shelf, so it would take a while before heat got down to the lower part of the fridge.
• This heat belt had no trouble getting my old freezer up to 40°C for a Kveik brew and I cannot touch it when it has been running for more than a few minutes.
• By the time the temperature probe detected 18°C, the temperature in the top half of the fridge must have got as hot as hades.

The outcome could have been catastrophic.  It was definitely a learning experience.  Hopefully anybody who reads this, thinks twice and does not make the same mistake.

I would have been better to:

• Have the temperature probe near the heat belt (although that would still have taken ages to warm up the fermenter).
• Have a small fan circulating the air in the fridge.
• Taken the time to rig up something so the heat belt was in the same space as the fermenter.
• Have used a less powerful heating device.
• Etc, etc, etc.

I am too honest to try the insurance angle.  As Brian Meeker said to the 12th Man's Daryl Eastlake, I basically f*&^%d up.

[Triple B Brewing]

57 minutes ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

That probably would have been handy in my case.

Here's a step by step run down of what happened in my situation.

• Everything was plugged in properly. 
• The fridge and brew were at 12°C, lager fermenting temperature. 
• I switched the temperature controller to 18°C for the diacetyl rest. 
• The heat belt was on the top shelf of the fridge and the shelf is made of glass. 
• The temperature probe was taped to the side of the fermenter near the bottom of the fridge.
• There is only a smallish gap at the front of the shelf, so it would take a while before heat got down to the lower part of the fridge.
• This heat belt had no trouble getting my old freezer up to 40°C for a Kveik brew and I cannot touch it when it has been running for more than a few minutes.
• By the time the temperature probe detected 18°C, the temperature in the top half of the fridge must have got as hot as hades.

The outcome could have been catastrophic.  It was definitely a learning experience.  Hopefully anybody who reads this, thinks twice and does not make the same mistake.

I would have been better to:

• Have the temperature probe near the heat belt (although that would still have taken ages to warm up the fermenter).
• Have a small fan circulating the air in the fridge.
• Taken the time to rig up something so the heat belt was in the same space as the fermenter.
• Have used a less powerful heating device.
• Etc, etc, etc.

I am too honest to try the insurance angle.  As Brian Meeker said to the 12th Man's Daryl Eastlake, I basically f*&^%d up.

Oh dear - phew - Thanks Shamus.

So does your inkbird temperature controller have a cold and hot power outlet -  I’m trying to understand why the temperature controller didn’t stop supplying power to the heat belt - was the heat belt not part of the temperature controller settings and plugged directly into its own independent power supply, or was it that the heat belt was plugged into the temperature controller but that the heat belt was not in contact with the fermenter itself and was just creating its own radiate heat within the ferment fridge which meant it wasn’t ever going to turn off heat until the ambient temperature within the fridge and including the fermenter had reached the temperature controller upper temp range that you had it set to ? - no hang on that doesn’t make sense because the temperature controller should have turned off the cooling (fridge) if the controller was trying to get the temp up to the upper temp settings - bloody hell - I’ve confused myself again

Anyway, re an insurance claim - mate I might be wrong, but I would believe this would legitimately fit into an accidental damage fusion category claim. 
A quick Google search using the following phrase “what is covered by accidental damage”, returns this result; 
Loss or damage caused by a sudden, unintended or unexpected event that is not the result of a deliberate act. Examples include you spilling red wine on a carpet by mistake; or you unintentionally dropping and breaking a fragile item, such as a vase.

I’d check ya house insurance policy and or make a call to discuss, but it feels absolutely legit to me. - good luck cobber

[Triple B Brewing]

7 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

Suspect, if the Inky tests out ok as I mentioned in a previous post then the heat belt may have been inadvertently plugged either into the "cooling side" or directly into the mains by mistake.  I know of one forum member (who will remain nameless) had them plugged in the wrong way round, i.e. fridge into the hot side and heat belt into the cool side and wondered why things were going pear shaped.  It is very easily done if the cords are the same style and colour.  I have a Dymo label on my heat source cords just to be sure as the controllers are not in an easy place to view the connections.

Oh yeah - I can definitely get that - in fact almost done it meself @iBooz2
I can only guess the heat belt was not plugged into the inkbird temperature controller, but plugged into its own independent power supply. 
That’s what I have just asked @Shamus O'Sean for clarification on (in around about waffling, sort of way)

[iBooz2]

46 minutes ago, Triple B Brewing said:

Oh yeah - I can definitely get that - in fact almost done it meself @iBooz2
I can only guess the heat belt was not plugged into the inkbird temperature controller, but plugged into its own independent power supply. 
That’s what I have just asked @Shamus O'Sean for clarification on (in around about waffling, sort of way)

@Shamus O'Sean has re-explained the situation and I can now see how this happened. (thanks shamus).

His heat belt was plugged into the inky in the correct spot albeit he had a very aggressive brand of heat belt.  Problem was (if you can imagine an old style two door fridge with a freezer area in the top door area and a fridge below in the bottom door area) the heat belt was in the top "freezer sort" of compartment and the temp probe was in the bottom compartment and there was limited air flow between the top and the bottom due to the dividing glass shelf (as hence explained by shamus).   So, the heat build-up was too much for the components in the top area of the fridge before the heat finally got into and raised the area where the temp probe was situated, way down below.

Remember, in most fridges they chill the freezer area or top of the fridge almost exclusively and then blow the subsequent cold air down (or use convection airflow) into the lower fridge area to chill that lower area to its set temps.  Problem in this scenario is that the fridge part would not have been running so any forced air flow from inbuilt fans in the chill side of the fridge would not been able to send this airflow downwards, just because it is all switched off by the inky.

I agree, make a claim as insurance companies are as honest as your bank robber IMO.

 

 

now how air down.

Edited February 12 by iBooz2

[Triple B Brewing]

51 minutes ago, iBooz2 said:

@Shamus O'Sean has re-explained the situation and I can now see how this happened. (thanks shamus).

His heat belt was plugged into the inky in the correct spot albeit he had a very aggressive brand of heat belt.  Problem was (if you can imagine an old style two door fridge with a freezer area in the top door area and a fridge below in the bottom door area) the heat belt was in the top "freezer sort" of compartment and the temp probe was in the bottom compartment and there was limited air flow between the top and the bottom due to the dividing glass shelf (as hence explained by shamus).   So, the heat build-up was too much for the components in the top area of the fridge before the heat finally got into and raised the area where the temp probe was situated, way down below.

Remember, in most fridges they chill the freezer area or top of the fridge almost exclusively and then blow the subsequent cold air down (or use convection airflow) into the lower fridge area to chill that lower area to its set temps.  Problem in this scenario is that the fridge part would not have been running so any forced air flow from inbuilt fans in the chill side of the fridge would not been able to send this airflow downwards, just because it is all switched off by the inky.

I agree, make a claim as insurance companies are as honest as your bank robber IMO.

 

 

now how air down.

WOW, OK, YEP, GOT IT- thanks @iBooz2 As @Shamus O'Sean has stated, hoping this share highlights the potential re the use of heat belts (especially those that don't have inbuilt thermostat protection eh) and the importance of ensuring that the temp probe is measuring a fair sample of the overall internal environment of the ferment fridge. Its amazing to think that much heat could be generated in the top section of a fridge without registering at the probe below a glass shelf eh 

I guess we all have slightly differing views, but this is partly why I choose to use a heater tube rather than a belt or a pad because I wasn't keen on having direct heat on my fermenter, but rather try to create the ideal ambient temp (a little slower, but gentler approach one might say).
So (as pictured below) I installed a small 240V computer fan to circulate air (aiming to create a constant temp range within the internal space of the fridge) and set my heater tube on a piece of timber (flooring board) sat loosely at the bottom of the fridge and then the temp probe for the inkbird is placed in a test tube of sanitiser wedged in the wire rack shelf that the fermenter sits on (which places the temp prob close to a third the way up the height of the fridge), which measures the ambient temp (within a liquid) as the fridge and heater kick in and out to maintain the overall temp inside the ferment fridge, not just locally at the fermenter.

Anywaz, I think the most important thing others I hope take away from this learning is how easily it can happen and the importance of thermostat protection and electrical circuit protection devices and pressure relief valves. They just may save a devastating fire or other life changing event (apologies, a bit of me 'ol occupation comin' out there ).

Thanks again IB2 and SOS to work through this with me and help me understand what happened - a really important share this one I reckon ...

Well cheers ta plenty of cold beers then eh  

 

[Classic Brewing Co]

8 hours ago, Triple B Brewing said:

WOW, OK, YEP, GOT IT- thanks @iBooz2 As @Shamus O'Sean has stated, hoping this share highlights the potential re the use of heat belts (especially those that don't have inbuilt thermostat protection eh) and the importance of ensuring that the temp probe is measuring a fair sample of the overall internal environment of the ferment fridge. Its amazing to think that much heat could be generated in the top section of a fridge without registering at the probe below a glass shelf eh 

I guess we all have slightly differing views, but this is partly why I choose to use a heater tube rather than a belt or a pad because I wasn't keen on having direct heat on my fermenter, but rather try to create the ideal ambient temp (a little slower, but gentler approach one might say).
So (as pictured below) I installed a small 240V computer fan to circulate air (aiming to create a constant temp range within the internal space of the fridge) and set my heater tube on a piece of timber (flooring board) sat loosely at the bottom of the fridge and then the temp probe for the inkbird is placed in a test tube of sanitiser wedged in the wire rack shelf that the fermenter sits on (which places the temp prob close to a third the way up the height of the fridge), which measures the ambient temp (within a liquid) as the fridge and heater kick in and out to maintain the overall temp inside the ferment fridge, not just locally at the fermenter.

Anywaz, I think the most important thing others I hope take away from this learning is how easily it can happen and the importance of thermostat protection and electrical circuit protection devices and pressure relief valves. They just may save a devastating fire or other life changing event (apologies, a bit of me 'ol occupation comin' out there ).

Thanks again IB2 and SOS to work through this with me and help me understand what happened - a really important share this one I reckon ...

Well cheers ta plenty of cold beers then eh  

 

Looks like a well thought out set-up @Triple B Brewing sometimes it makes you wonder how much you can trust a heat belt, especially a cheaper one. I guess it would be the same with a Temperature Controller, I have had a Mangrove Jack STC-1000 for over 15 years & it still works fine, the Keg King heat belt that came died last year & I replaced it with a Triple J brand which I got for $11.00 online. I think the original cost about $45-50.

The number of times I have used these units without incident still makes me wonder how safe they really are especially if you are away from home.

 

[Triple B Brewing]

2 hours ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

Looks like a well thought out set-up @Triple B Brewing sometimes it makes you wonder how much you can trust a heat belt, especially a cheaper one. I guess it would be the same with a Temperature Controller, I have had a Mangrove Jack STC-1000 for over 15 years & it still works fine, the Keg King heat belt that came died last year & I replaced it with a Triple J brand which I got for $11.00 online. I think the original cost about $45-50.

The number of times I have used these units without incident still makes me wonder how safe they really are especially if you are away from home.

 

Hey @Classic Brewing Co, yep I couldn’t have piece of mind for precisely that reason unless I had equipment with inbuilt protection. 
I know it might be a bit back the front now Phil, but if I was using a heat belt or pad that didn’t have its own inbuilt thermostat protection I would buy one of these Thermostat Plugs for about $50.00 or maybe even hook up its own Plug-in Thermostat Electronic Temperature Controller Sensor for about $25.00 - sure the connection of these devices to your temperature controller might be (let’s say) interesting either of them for me would give me peace of mind. 

[Classic Brewing Co]

20 minutes ago, Triple B Brewing said:

Hey @Classic Brewing Co, yep I couldn’t have piece of mind for precisely that reason unless I had equipment with inbuilt protection. 
I know it might be a bit back the front now Phil, but if I was using a heat belt or pad that didn’t have its own inbuilt thermostat protection I would buy one of these Thermostat Plugs for about $50.00 or maybe even hook up its own Plug-in Thermostat Electronic Temperature Controller Sensor for about $25.00 - sure the connection of these devices to your temperature controller might be (let’s say) interesting either of them for me would give me peace of mind. 

Fair enough but I have been using it for over 15 years without issue so I probably will stick to it.

I also acquired an INKBIRD ITC-308-WIFI Smart Thermostat so I imagine that would be better - when I finally configure it to my WIFI.

[Triple B Brewing]

22 minutes ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

Fair enough but I have been using it for over 15 years without issue so I probably will stick to it.

I also acquired an INKBIRD ITC-308-WIFI Smart Thermostat so I imagine that would be better - when I finally configure it to my WIFI.

Yep I get it Phil - I think the key to all this is understanding that the inkbird temperature controller will only control the power supply to the heat (or cold) side as the temperature probe of the inkbird is able to register temperature. If (for whatever reason) it doesn’t or can’t register what impact the heating unit is having it will potentially continue to provide power to the heater side allowing it to potentially max out and without a inbuilt thermostat, the heating unit could just keep heating at maximum capacity until someone or something intervenes.
Anyway Phil, may you (and all other members in this forum) continue to brew without any major eh 

Cheers

[Pale Man]

4 hours ago, Triple B Brewing said:

If (for whatever reason) it doesn’t or can’t register what impact the heating unit is having it will potentially continue to provide power to the heater side allowing it to potentially max out and without a inbuilt thermostat, the heating unit could just keep heating at maximum capacity until someone or something intervenes.

 

 

I cant see how this would happen unless the inkbird is faulty. Its probe is reading off the temperature of the wort, once that temperature is reached the inkbird will cut power to the heat belt.

[Triple B Brewing]

2 hours ago, Pale Man said:

I cant see how this would happen unless the inkbird is faulty. Its probe is reading off the temperature of the wort, once that temperature is reached the inkbird will cut power to the heat belt.

Hey @Pale Man, Yeah I was a little confused to start with for the same reason Paley. If you read backwards in this thread it should become clearer.  

@iBooz2 post pretty well provides the required insight I reckon - here is a copy of it here FYI

@Shamus O'Sean has re-explained the situation and I can now see how this happened. (thanks shamus).

His heat belt was plugged into the inky in the correct spot albeit he had a very aggressive brand of heat belt.  Problem was (if you can imagine an old style two door fridge with a freezer area in the top door area and a fridge below in the bottom door area) the heat belt was in the top "freezer sort" of compartment and the temp probe was in the bottom compartment and there was limited air flow between the top and the bottom due to the dividing glass shelf (as hence explained by shamus).   So, the heat build-up was too much for the components in the top area of the fridge before the heat finally got into and raised the area where the temp probe was situated, way down below.

Remember, in most fridges they chill the freezer area or top of the fridge almost exclusively and then blow the subsequent cold air down (or use convection airflow) into the lower fridge area to chill that lower area to its set temps.  Problem in this scenario is that the fridge part would not have been running so any forced air flow from inbuilt fans in the chill side of the fridge would not been able to send this airflow downwards, just because it is all switched off by the inky.

I agree, make a claim as insurance companies are as honest as your bank robber IMO.

[Aussiekraut]

Just went to check on my beer. I opened the fridge and found this. When I put in finings 3 days ago, I apparently didn't put the lid back on the FV. Fingers crossed it's alright. So far, nothing is growing on it, which is encouraging. 

[RDT2]

2 hours ago, Aussiekraut said:

Just went to check on my beer. I opened the fridge and found this. When I put in finings 3 days ago, I apparently didn't put the lid back on the FV. Fingers crossed it's alright. So far, nothing is growing on it, which is encouraging. 

Hopefully being in an enclosed cold sealed  fridge it will be ok! 

[stquinto]

Nowhere near as worthy of the chocolates as @Shamus O'Sean’s nearly coming home to a pile of cinders, but I managed to lose a half-to-two-thirds of a keg of Guinness by leaving the beer tap on with the nitro blend on too. Worst thing is I’ve done it twice now

”Oh fiddlesticks” I said, and tutted loudly…

Still got to summon up the courage to clean the keezer out

[Triple B Brewing]

5 hours ago, stquinto said:

Nowhere near as worthy of the chocolates as @Shamus O'Sean’s nearly coming home to a pile of cinders, but I managed to lose a half-to-two-thirds of a keg of Guinness by leaving the beer tap on with the nitro blend on too. Worst thing is I’ve done it twice now

”Oh fiddlesticks” I said, and tutted loudly…

Still got to summon up the courage to clean the keezer out

My money’s on the chook done it - I mean he’s nowhere to be found now

Dang @stquinto condolences on your loss mate

[Back Brewing]

6 hours ago, stquinto said:

”Oh fiddlesticks” I said, and tutted loudly…

 

[stquinto]

I went out and got a wet vac. About 8.5 litres lost  

The main question now is should I or shouldn’t I ? 
Hmm…  

[jennyss]

Nooooooo!

[Shamus O'Sean]

Yeah. NAR

[stquinto]

Probably best if I take that one to the grave with me, eh?

[Classic Brewing Co]

5 hours ago, stquinto said:

I went out and got a wet vac. About 8.5 litres lost  

The main question now is should I or shouldn’t I ? 
Hmm…  

Re-keg or bottle it Stquinta, it will be fine. 

[iBooz2]

On 2/27/2024 at 5:48 AM, stquinto said:

I managed to lose a half-to-two-thirds of a keg of Guinness by leaving the beer tap on with the nitro blend on too. Worst thing is I’ve done it twice now

@stquinto I think that I have mentioned this before (after the last time this happened).  I suspect your beer lines are cheap PVC or the like and not double walled tubing we use here in kangaroo land as ours are rated to 200 psi at 30 C and 100 psi at 50 C.  Maybe your supplier has switched tubing to suit their profit?  Does that tubing have any markings to say what it is and what its rated at?

Sorry for your loss and I know how it feels as a connector brough me un-stuck and I lost almost a whole keg when it happened to me.  Flooded my Keezer overnight.

Edited February 28 by iBooz2

[iBooz2]

12 hours ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

Re-keg or bottle it Stquinta, it will be fine. 

Then take it down to the local tavern and hock it.  They might not know the difference.