Low Alcohol Brewing

[Greenyinthewestofsydney]

I absolutely love my beers. Sometimes a little too much. For years I was an everyday drinker. 1 or 2. Sometimes 3 or 4. In recent years as I have got older I have been trying to do alcohol free days. Mon to Thurs zero beers. Some weeks I achieve it and some weeks I don't. Lately I have been failing a fair bit. I have tried a few zero alcohol beers and some are basically water and they are pretty much similar price to the real McCoy. The other day I bought a 4 pack of heaps normal from woolies. 16 bucks a 4 pack. The beer wasn't bad at all. I could drink that on weekdays no problem but not paying 16 bucks for 4. 

I have tried the brew and burn off the ethanol method a few years ago and while the beer was OK it wasn't fantastic and was a lot of stuffing around. Recently I have been reading up on the mash high method. Mashing at 80c so leaving lots of sugars the yeast can't eat. OGs of 1016 ish and finishing around 1012 so the body is there but not much ethanol. It sounds a lot easier and from what I have read gives a better result so keen to give it a go. Going to do a 10L batch tomorrow of a simple lager so will post it up here and give the results. Keen to hear from anyone who has done it or is doing it as well. 

[Hoppy81]

1 hour ago, Greenyinthewestofsydney said:

I absolutely love my beers. Sometimes a little too much. For years I was an everyday drinker. 1 or 2. Sometimes 3 or 4. In recent years as I have got older I have been trying to do alcohol free days. Mon to Thurs zero beers. Some weeks I achieve it and some weeks I don't. Lately I have been failing a fair bit. I have tried a few zero alcohol beers and some are basically water and they are pretty much similar price to the real McCoy. The other day I bought a 4 pack of heaps normal from woolies. 16 bucks a 4 pack. The beer wasn't bad at all. I could drink that on weekdays no problem but not paying 16 bucks for 4. 

I have tried the brew and burn off the ethanol method a few years ago and while the beer was OK it wasn't fantastic and was a lot of stuffing around. Recently I have been reading up on the mash high method. Mashing at 80c so leaving lots of sugars the yeast can't eat. OGs of 1016 ish and finishing around 1012 so the body is there but not much ethanol. It sounds a lot easier and from what I have read gives a better result so keen to give it a go. Going to do a 10L batch tomorrow of a simple lager so will post it up here and give the results. Keen to hear from anyone who has done it or is doing it as well. 

There is quite a few good non alcoholic beers on the market now, 4 pines ultra low, Tinnies ultra low, Big shed desi driver, get all these for around $45 - $50 a carton.

If you are on Facebook, check this non alcoholic group out, lots of info and recipes on there. 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/3474861515921842

[Cheap Charlie]

I can't comment on low alcohol beers as I am struggling brewing them below 4%!

Something I was keen on trying is hop water - seems to be a small trend in the states.

[Aussiekraut]

11 hours ago, Greenyinthewestofsydney said:

I absolutely love my beers. Sometimes a little too much. For years I was an everyday drinker. 1 or 2. Sometimes 3 or 4. In recent years as I have got older I have been trying to do alcohol free days. Mon to Thurs zero beers. Some weeks I achieve it and some weeks I don't. Lately I have been failing a fair bit. I have tried a few zero alcohol beers and some are basically water and they are pretty much similar price to the real McCoy. The other day I bought a 4 pack of heaps normal from woolies. 16 bucks a 4 pack. The beer wasn't bad at all. I could drink that on weekdays no problem but not paying 16 bucks for 4. 

I have tried the brew and burn off the ethanol method a few years ago and while the beer was OK it wasn't fantastic and was a lot of stuffing around. Recently I have been reading up on the mash high method. Mashing at 80c so leaving lots of sugars the yeast can't eat. OGs of 1016 ish and finishing around 1012 so the body is there but not much ethanol. It sounds a lot easier and from what I have read gives a better result so keen to give it a go. Going to do a 10L batch tomorrow of a simple lager so will post it up here and give the results. Keen to hear from anyone who has done it or is doing it as well. 

When I make a mid-strength beer, I do a high-temperature mash. Not as high as 80C but 45 minutes at 72 C. It gives enough body and the beer comes in at about 2.5% using 3kg grain. The thing is, when I set the mash temp to 80C, Beersmith still tells me ABV is 2.5. That would suggest there is a limit to the amount of non-fermentable sugars created during mashing. Then again, maybe Beersmith has it wrong. The problem with low-ABV beer is getting as much body from as little grain as possible. 

Edited April 1, 2023 by Aussiekraut

[ben 10]

On 4/1/2023 at 8:53 PM, Greenyinthewestofsydney said:

I absolutely love my beers. Sometimes a little too much.

I got around that recently by drinking home made spirits - LOL.
Heaps less though, lost the bloat too.

[Greenyinthewestofsydney]

Having another go at this. My 10L experiment in April was a bit of a fail. The hopping for a LA beer was totally wrong. The whole balance of the beer was off and while drinkable it was not enjoyable at all. 

So had another go today. This time i did a saison. When i did a few 2% ABV brews a while back the only ones that tasted really good were saisons. Saisons were originally low alcohol beers given to workers so the style seems to lend itself to lower alcohol. See where this one goes i guess.

 

 

[ben 10]

13 hours ago, Greenyinthewestofsydney said:

This time i did a saison

cool, I'll await a tasting report

[Aussiekraut]

13 hours ago, Greenyinthewestofsydney said:

Having another go at this. My 10L experiment in April was a bit of a fail. The hopping for a LA beer was totally wrong. The whole balance of the beer was off and while drinkable it was not enjoyable at all. 

So had another go today. This time i did a saison. When i did a few 2% ABV brews a while back the only ones that tasted really good were saisons. Saisons were originally low alcohol beers given to workers so the style seems to lend itself to lower alcohol. See where this one goes i guess.

 

 

What size batch is this? with 1kg grain, I suppose it is small.

One of the problems I noticed is that hop absorption seems to be a lot higher and the beers get too bitter easily. I noticed that with the non-enzymatic mash I did some time ago. While the beer came in at a light 0.8%, its bitterness slapped you in the face. The balance was way out. The bitterness ratio was 2.9 on that one and it really needs to drop a fair bit. 

It'll be interesting to see how this one turns out.

[Greenyinthewestofsydney]

14 hours ago, Aussiekraut said:

What size batch is this? with 1kg grain, I suppose it is small.

One of the problems I noticed is that hop absorption seems to be a lot higher and the beers get too bitter easily. I noticed that with the non-enzymatic mash I did some time ago. While the beer came in at a light 0.8%, its bitterness slapped you in the face. The balance was way out. The bitterness ratio was 2.9 on that one and it really needs to drop a fair bit. 

It'll be interesting to see how this one turns out.

19L batch. 

Yup i am hearing you. My first one was an asian lager and the only thing i changed from my normal recipe was the bittering hop amount and even then the bitterness hit me like double what the normal recipe at 5% ABV did. 

Doing a bit more reading seems the way is to stay away from bittering hop additions in favour of later additions. Anyway saisons are yeast driven beers so hopefully this one turns out better. 

[Greenyinthewestofsydney]

So I pulled a sample this morning to see where this is at. OG was 1.013 and it's sitting at 1.009 so it's should be almost done. Airlock has stopped.

The taste. Smacks me in the face with bitterness. I think I may have another fail on this. Can't understand it. By beersmith it should have around 16 IBU and the galaxy hops were in the freezer 6 months or so so might have lost a couple of points of AA% as well. 

Might have to fire off a couple of Q's to the experts on Facebook to see what they think. Anyway will leave this for a few more days to see where it goes then CC and keg.

[Aussiekraut]

1 hour ago, Greenyinthewestofsydney said:

So I pulled a sample this morning to see where this is at. OG was 1.013 and it's sitting at 1.009 so it's should be almost done. Airlock has stopped.

The taste. Smacks me in the face with bitterness. I think I may have another fail on this. Can't understand it. By beersmith it should have around 16 IBU and the galaxy hops were in the freezer 6 months or so so might have lost a couple of points of AA% as well. 

Might have to fire off a couple of Q's to the experts on Facebook to see what they think. Anyway will leave this for a few more days to see where it goes then CC and keg.

The bitter ratio of the beer is quite high, which I suspect is the cause for the bitterness, despite the low IBU. You probably have to drop the hops even more. It'll probably mellow out a little but I wouldn't expect miracles.

[Shamus O'Sean]

9 hours ago, Greenyinthewestofsydney said:

So I pulled a sample this morning to see where this is at. OG was 1.013 and it's sitting at 1.009 so it's should be almost done. Airlock has stopped.

The taste. Smacks me in the face with bitterness. I think I may have another fail on this. Can't understand it. By beersmith it should have around 16 IBU and the galaxy hops were in the freezer 6 months or so so might have lost a couple of points of AA% as well. 

Might have to fire off a couple of Q's to the experts on Facebook to see what they think. Anyway will leave this for a few more days to see where it goes then CC and keg.

The parti-gyle brew I did a while ago produced a 9.2% Duvel and a 2.2% Light Belgian Ale (Quarvel).  The 2.2% brew had 8 IBU and is quite nice.  See my review here.  It was meant to be 13 IBU but I ended up diluting it from 20 litres to 28 litres in the fermenter.

[RDT2]

23 hours ago, Greenyinthewestofsydney said:

So I pulled a sample this morning to see where this is at. OG was 1.013 and it's sitting at 1.009 so it's should be almost done. Airlock has stopped.

The taste. Smacks me in the face with bitterness. I think I may have another fail on this. Can't understand it. By beersmith it should have around 16 IBU and the galaxy hops were in the freezer 6 months or so so might have lost a couple of points of AA% as well. 

Might have to fire off a couple of Q's to the experts on Facebook to see what they think. Anyway will leave this for a few more days to see where it goes then CC and keg.

I would imagine the IBUs would be too high and also factoring in the harshness of Galaxy would compound it! Galaxy is harsh when over bittered IMO. Would Mosaic or perhaps warrior be a little more forgiving!

[Aussiekraut]

2 hours ago, RDT2 said:

I would imagine the IBUs would be too high and also factoring in the harshness of Galaxy would compound it! Galaxy is harsh when over bittered IMO. Would Mosaic or perhaps warrior be a little more forgiving!

I agree with the assessment of Galaxy. It is a noce hop and I use it a fair bit but as a bittering hop, it can be harsh. I try to keep it at or below 10g for a full batch.

But in this example, it is only boiled for 10 minutes, so it shouldn't be an issue. I think the problem is that due to the low malt content, hop utilisation is a lot higher. If you drop a kilo of malt from a recipe, you can see IBU and more importantly bitterness ratio going up.

[Greenyinthewestofsydney]

On 1/4/2024 at 12:29 PM, Aussiekraut said:

The bitter ratio of the beer is quite high, which I suspect is the cause for the bitterness, despite the low IBU. You probably have to drop the hops even more. It'll probably mellow out a little but I wouldn't expect miracles.

It has mellowed a bit. But still has too much bitterness. I was thinking it would be worse than my first attempt but I don't think it will be now. Far far from where I want it to be though. Other than the smack of bitterness the background flavours are not too bad really. I have started the cold crash this afternoon. It settled at 1.008 which has it at 0.66% ABV. I have some time Tuesday so I will run it back with the same recipe but 20gm at 5 mins and ferment using about a third of the slurry. I think that will be closer to the mark.

On another note. It occurred to me walking through Dan's today looking at the low ABV beers and they are all more than 40 a carton how much profit someone is getting on these seeing as it's costing me about $6 or $7 in raw materials for this next batch.

[iBooz2]

@Greenyinthewestofsydney & @Aussiekraut & others interested in LAB.  Have you guys thought about using Gladfield Chit Barley Malt in the grain bill to up the body (regardless of mash temps) and also because it helps give a good mouthfeel, promotes foam and keeps head retention?  Could help in a LAB where all those things sort of go AWL.

I am not interested in LAB as I like mine to be 3.8 - 4.5 ish but have ordered 10 Kg of chit to give it a try in some of the pale ales I brew just to see what it can bring to the party.

[Greenyinthewestofsydney]

10 minutes ago, iBooz2 said:

@Greenyinthewestofsydney & @Aussiekraut & others interested in LAB.  Have you guys thought about using Gladfield Chit Barley Malt in the grain bill to up the body (regardless of mash temps) and also because it helps give a good mouthfeel, promotes foam and keeps head retention?  Could help in a LAB where all those things sort of go AWL.

I am not interested in LAB as I like mine to be 3.8 - 4.5 ish but have ordered 10 Kg of chit to give it a try in some of the pale ales I brew just to see what it can bring to the party.

Thanks mate I will have a look at that. I would rather full strength too but my waist line is saying otherwise. Hopefully I can nail some nice recipes for Low Alcohol Beers so I can still enjoy my weekday Beers.

[Aussiekraut]

12 hours ago, Greenyinthewestofsydney said:

It has mellowed a bit. But still has too much bitterness. I was thinking it would be worse than my first attempt but I don't think it will be now. Far far from where I want it to be though. Other than the smack of bitterness the background flavours are not too bad really. I have started the cold crash this afternoon. It settled at 1.008 which has it at 0.66% ABV. I have some time Tuesday so I will run it back with the same recipe but 20gm at 5 mins and ferment using about a third of the slurry. I think that will be closer to the mark.

On another note. It occurred to me walking through Dan's today looking at the low ABV beers and they are all more than 40 a carton how much profit someone is getting on these seeing as it's costing me about $6 or $7 in raw materials for this next batch.

I'm interested in seeing if this achieves the results wanted. 

I'm going to do another run after I've built up my stocks again. The good thing about taking the non-enzymatic mash approach is that you can use the "spent" grains and mash them again, this time hot and you get another batch of low ABV beer from it. But first, I need to get the process right.

Yes, I have noticed the prices of alcohol free beers. Ridiculous. The cheapest I can find is Coopers Ultra-Low, which sells for a 10er a six-pack, 17 per dozen in Aldi and apparently, 31 for a carton at Uncle Dan's. Other beers sell for not much less than the alcoholic version. No alcohol is very popular at the moment, so they want to make a motza while the wave lasts. 18 bucks for a 6-pack of no ABV beer? Really? 

[Aussiekraut]

10 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

@Greenyinthewestofsydney & @Aussiekraut & others interested in LAB.  Have you guys thought about using Gladfield Chit Barley Malt in the grain bill to up the body (regardless of mash temps) and also because it helps give a good mouthfeel, promotes foam and keeps head retention?  Could help in a LAB where all those things sort of go AWL.

I am not interested in LAB as I like mine to be 3.8 - 4.5 ish but have ordered 10 Kg of chit to give it a try in some of the pale ales I brew just to see what it can bring to the party.

I have seen Chit before but never used it. I need to check it out as I am always interested in preserving body while reducing ABV.  I have a fairly full-bodied 3% beer but if I could get it to about 2.5 without compromising too much, I'd be happy. 

[Classic Brewing Co]

1 hour ago, Aussiekraut said:

I'm interested in seeing if this achieves the results wanted. 

I'm going to do another run after I've built up my stocks again. The good thing about taking the non-enzymatic mash approach is that you can use the "spent" grains and mash them again, this time hot and you get another batch of low ABV beer from it. But first, I need to get the process right.

Yes, I have noticed the prices of alcohol free beers. Ridiculous. The cheapest I can find is Coopers Ultra-Low, which sells for a 10er a six-pack, 17 per dozen in Aldi and apparently, 31 for a carton at Uncle Dan's. Other beers sell for not much less than the alcoholic version. No alcohol is very popular at the moment, so they want to make a motza while the wave lasts. 18 bucks for a 6-pack of no ABV beer? Really? 

I grabbed a pack recently on the counter on special, got home chilled it for hours & went to open one & WTF - Zero alcohol, I took them straight back & exchanged it, lucky I am a regular otherwise they may not have done it.

[Aussiekraut]

28 minutes ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

I grabbed a pack recently on the counter on special, got home chilled it for hours & went to open one & WTF - Zero alcohol, I took them straight back & exchanged it, lucky I am a regular otherwise they may not have done it.

What's wrong with drinking it? Yes, sure, it isn't the same as a "proper" beer but it is guilt free beer drinking. You can pump down beer after beer and then hop into your car and drive off. I mean 10 bottles of ultra-low ABV beers is the equivalent to a stubby. Parched in the middle of the night? Have a beer and be happy  

I drink a fair bit of that stuff, so making some myself is just a logical conclusion. And when I do it myself, I can tweak things until they are exactly where I want them to be. 

[Classic Brewing Co]

13 minutes ago, Aussiekraut said:

What's wrong with drinking it? Yes, sure, it isn't the same as a "proper" beer but it is guilt free beer drinking. You can pump down beer after beer and then hop into your car and drive off. I mean 10 bottles of ultra-low ABV beers is the equivalent to a stubby. Parched in the middle of the night? Have a beer and be happy  

I drink a fair bit of that stuff, so making some myself is just a logical conclusion. And when I do it myself, I can tweak things until they are exactly where I want them to be. 

Actually, I wasn't meaning to condemn it, it definitely has its place & I have indulged in Light beers a lot in the past especially travelling home from long trips interstate.

What I meant was at the time I bought it; I hadn't realised it was zero, it was just to top up the beer fridge for a couple of mates who were coming around for a drink, it helps keep more beer in my kegs. 

Sorry AK if I sounded harsh, I may even try some to see for myself.

[ChairmanDrew]

15 minutes ago, Aussiekraut said:

What's wrong with drinking it?

Well, it's got no alcohol in it

I like to drink my beers in longer sessions and get a buzz, but without getting trashed. Unfortunately there isn't much on the market in that mid range (below 4% but above 2%). Here in NZ, Steinlager used to do a nice lite beer at 2.5%, but I must have been the only one drinking it because it has been discontinued. I've also noticed zero beers becoming a big thing lately.

I've thought about trying to make a lite beer, but am skeptical that it will come out tasting nicely balanced. I've asked before on these forums about this one, but I don't think anyone has ever actually bothered making it   https://www.diybeer.com/au/recipe/zephyr-light.html

[Aussiekraut]

1 hour ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

Actually, I wasn't meaning to condemn it, it definitely has its place & I have indulged in Light beers a lot in the past especially travelling home from long trips interstate.

What I meant was at the time I bought it; I hadn't realised it was zero, it was just to top up the beer fridge for a couple of mates who were coming around for a drink, it helps keep more beer in my kegs. 

Sorry AK if I sounded harsh, I may even try some to see for myself.

All good mate  I used to always dismiss alcohol free beers but over the last few years discovered a few that taste quite alright and the benefits are certainly clear at hand. Having said that, I wouldn't want to only drink no-abv beers. I like having a few in the afternoon and with dinner but after I don't usually drink alcohol anyway, just juice and some peppermint tea. For the mornings, there is non-alcoholic beer  Or of course when I go to concerts and stuff. When I have to drive, I must be the only one at heavy metal concerts who gets in the car after the gig and legally drives home. Then I will have a nice cold home brew to wind down before I go to bed.

[Aussiekraut]

1 hour ago, ChairmanDrew said:

Well, it's got no alcohol in it

I like to drink my beers in longer sessions and get a buzz, but without getting trashed. Unfortunately there isn't much on the market in that mid range (below 4% but above 2%). Here in NZ, Steinlager used to do a nice lite beer at 2.5%, but I must have been the only one drinking it because it has been discontinued. I've also noticed zero beers becoming a big thing lately.

I've thought about trying to make a lite beer, but am skeptical that it will come out tasting nicely balanced. I've asked before on these forums about this one, but I don't think anyone has ever actually bothered making it   https://www.diybeer.com/au/recipe/zephyr-light.html

The recipe looks simple enough and straight to the point. But I'm a little worried it'll be rather thin. The problem with using less fermentable sugars in a beer to drop ABV is, that it inevitably leads to watery tasting beer. To overcome this, you can either remove alcohol after the beer is fermented out or you dig deep into the box of tricks to get body into the beer. That is easier when you're brewing all grain but you should still be able to get something decent with kits. I wouldn't use dextrose in this recipe but DME for starters. It's not much but every little bit helps Maybe even replace it with some very hot steeped crystal malt (70-72C), which should not hurt the ABV bill too much. A hotter steep is a little like a hotter mash, where longer chained sugars are made, which the yeast can't eat. Maybe some maltodextrin will also help.