porschemad911 Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 ... the mix of the pale malt and 120L crystal isn't necessarily going to make magic together. I think it's one of those things where little compromises here and there down the line add up. G'day Jeremy, What pale malt did you use? At least you'll have beer to drink at the end of the process ... but no, this combination doesn't work that well in my experience. A while ago, I tried to turn a Coopers Pale Ale kit into an English pale ale by steeping some 240EBC (120L) crystal and doing an EKG hop boil, fermenting with the kit yeast. The combination of malt flavours wasn't great at all, and certainly wasn't anything like a nice traditional English pale ale. Part of this could be some missing yeast character, which you will also be missing if you get a clean lager fermentation, but I just don't think pale malt + a darker crystal works well together. It was drinkable though, and I finished the batch. In contrast, I have brewed a beer with 82% English pale malt, 10% wheat malt and 8% 150EBC (75L) crystal that was really good. That was fermented with a British yeast strain and used Fuggles + EKG at the start of the boil, then lots of Styrian Goldings late. It tasted completely different to the aforementioned beer, heaps better. Cheers, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy-o Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 ... the mix of the pale malt and 120L crystal isn't necessarily going to make magic together. I think it's one of those things where little compromises here and there down the line add up. G'day Jeremy' date=' What pale malt did you use?[/quote'] Just Joe White Pale 2-Row. We'll see how it goes. If I were to start this recipe over I'd use Vienna or Munich malt and a lighter roast of crystal, but I'm glad I've done it this way just for what I've learnt. And I've relaxed enough now to trust that it will end up tasting clean and be easily drinkable, if a little characterless. Interesting that the 10% wheat addition does the trick. That could be one for a future Pale Ale base when I'm off my lager bent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porschemad911 Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 Interesting that the 10% wheat addition does the trick. That could be one for a future Pale Ale base when I'm off my lager bent Well' date=' I don't think it was just the wheat - the English base malt gives a significantly different flavour to the JWM base malt, and the 150EBC crystal tastes quite different to the 240EBC crystal. For me it was a case of coming up with an idea that didn't quite work vs researching proven recipes to find something that did. So basically, I'm crap at making recipes up, but when I learnt from others who are more experienced at it, I got a better beer [img']happy[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted April 22, 2016 Author Share Posted April 22, 2016 ... but I just don't think pale malt + a darker crystal works well together. It was drinkable though' date=' and I finished the batch. [/quote']I dunno... I use pale malt and Caraaroma which is a very dark crystal in my red ale and it turns out brilliantly. Just depends on the recipe/flavours you're aiming for I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy-o Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 Well this thing's getting better. Not a heap of character but maybe enough to make it interesting - I even tasted some actual hops today! We were talking about Mexican beer in the other thread, and this one will be perfect for a lime wedge in the neck. A dry, fresh lager. Best case scenario it's something like a Negra Modelo or a Dos Equis Amber. The colour may actually hit that amber mark in the end, too - it's starting to look sexy in the smaller brew vessel: (those are the offcuts brewing with the Coopers' yeast) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickc1525229722 Posted April 23, 2016 Share Posted April 23, 2016 not tryin to be a dik ....but that tap you have on the fv is shitee dont use brass unless you pickle it and even then with beer its crap regrads mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy-o Posted April 23, 2016 Share Posted April 23, 2016 not tryin to be a dik ....but that tap you have on the fv is shitee dont use brass unless you pickle it and even then with beer its crap regrads mick Heh, yeah. It's not my main FV, just a handy jug for scrumpy cider and "spare parts." I have exactly the same thing but bigger, 5L maybe, I was thinking of using that too - not worth it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted April 23, 2016 Share Posted April 23, 2016 Two brews in FV's atm. I have an American style Pale Ale that uses 7 different hops currently crash chilling in my brew fridge. That will be kegged tomorrow. The second is my Fursty Ferret clone using the Wyeast 1275 Thames Valley yeast. I took this out of my brew fridge yesterday & it will spend the next 4-5 days at ambient temperatures before it too is crash chilled & kegged. The yeast has done a good job, as my gravity reading of 1.013 is spot on the predicted FG for the recipe in IanH's spreadsheet. Pavarotti Pale Ale is next on the cards, but brew day for that has been put back to next Wednesday. Good times ahead. Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porschemad911 Posted April 23, 2016 Share Posted April 23, 2016 I dunno... I use pale malt and Caraaroma which is a very dark crystal in my red ale and it turns out brilliantly. Just depends on the recipe/flavours you're aiming for I think. As I typed my original post I was thinking of your recipes with Caraaroma as a possible exception - but you use English base malt which would have more flavour so I think it would be better integrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild dog Posted April 23, 2016 Share Posted April 23, 2016 Lazy Basset session ale 1x can coopers APA 1x can coopers wheat extract 500 BE3 5l boil 15g chinook@15 15g chinook@5 15g vic secret steep 5 mins yeast us-05 dry hop 35g vic secret Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon Posted April 23, 2016 Share Posted April 23, 2016 I've got version 2.0 of my Dogfish Head 60 minute IPA in my fermenter at the moment. Same basic setup as version 1.0 , but instead of continuously hopping during the boil I've just gone for the 'ol 60,15,5 and flameout additions. Dry hopped with 30g of Cascade and 20g of Mosaic last Wednesday night so might start the CC tomorrow. Smells divine, early samples were promising too, but I may have made it a little too bitter as i overdid the 60 minute Warrior addition a little... Soon as this one is bottled up I've got a hoppy Cascade/Mosaic pale ale next. Really looking forward to that one too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted April 23, 2016 Share Posted April 23, 2016 A couple of very nice sounding brews there WDB & Xenon. Good luck with them both. Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark D Pirate Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 have both fermenters full atm Mini BIAB stout 15 L .5 kg munich .5 kg pale .5 kg choc malt .2 kg rolled oats (toasted @ 150 C for 10 ) 1.5 kg TC amber extract .3 kg LDM 25 g Fuggles 60 min 7 g Galaxy 20 min Notty yeast @ 15 C highest OG i ever brewed to 1.068 exp. FG 1.014 ABV% 6.4 not quite as dark as i would have imagined but certainly a stout lazy man pale 22 L Coopers pale can 1.7 kg 1kg LDM 1kg BE2 10 g amarillo 20 mins 10 g galaxy 15 mins Notty yeast @ 15 C OG 1.060 exp. FG 1.015 ABV % 5.9 LHBS had packets of the notty a few weeks past best before so got 2 for 1 and made a 1 L starter 4 days before brew ,stepped that to 2 x 1 L 2 days later ,pitched at 19 and down to 15 overnight EDIT correct otto ... Typo its 7.4% in the bottle ( prob less since i'll only use half the priming sugar ) i think i'll be lucky to drink any of them before july let alone in 3 weeks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted April 24, 2016 Author Share Posted April 24, 2016 I beat you by one point on my stout that I just threw in the FV , and you'll probably get higher ABV from those SG figures. Mine's 21 litres at 1.069, being fermented with 1469 yeast at 18C, predicted FG is 1.016 which would give 7% ABV and that's without bottle priming as this is going into a keg only. Should be kegged in about 2-3 weeks I'd say. Looking forward to this being on tap! Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy-o Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 Quick "What would you do?" question. I am pretty committed to bottling my all-grain amber lager tomorrow. The taste has been getting better and better: following the quick-lagering method including a diacetyl rest at 4 points above final gravity, I cold crashed it 48 hours ago with gelatin. Anyway I had a taste this evening and it's changed a bit during cold-crashing - over two weeks in the fermenter and I feel like there's a bit of sudden diacetyl / butteriness. I may be psyching myself out. Will bottle conditioning and cold storage clear this up, you reckon? I mean part of it for me as well is that I know it's an imperfect beer already and I want the fermenter to keep pushing forward with a better recipe. But I don't want to bottle a case of terrible beer, and it's such a simple, low-hops recipe that the flaws will be obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headmaster Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 If you can afford the time, there's no harm in letting it warm up again to about 18c for a few days to see if the yeast will clean it up further. That is actually recommended practice for lagers in some recipes, after the lagering period at cold temps, to ensure they have actually finished fermenting. Have seen it in the clone book. What's your mash temp and expected final gravity? I had one lager appear to finish at 1012 which I thought was a bit high, turned out it was finally headed for 1008, had a couple of bottles blow. This was after several days DR at 18c, then lager at 2c, then bottle. WLP800 I think it was. The yeast must have decided to take a holiday there somewhere.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy-o Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 If you can afford the time' date=' there's no harm in letting it warm up again to about 18c for a few days to see if the yeast will clean it up further. That is actually recommended practice for lagers in some recipes, after the lagering period at cold temps, to ensure they have actually finished fermenting. Have seen it in the clone book. What's your mash temp and expected final gravity? I had one lager appear to finish at 1012 which I thought was a bit high, turned out it was finally headed for 1008, had a couple of bottles blow. This was after several days DR at 18c, then lager at 2c, then bottle. WLP800 I think it was. The yeast must have decided to take a holiday there somewhere.. [/quote'] Mash temp was low, I'm sure, and it wavered a bit. It must have been relatively low because it was very efficient and the FG ended up at 1007 from 1041. I actually thought I'd missed the optimal time for a diacetyl rest because the calculator I used estimated a 1012 final gravity, and it was at 1010/1011 at my five-day gravity check. But I let it ramp itself up and it kept going - I guess the calculator hadn't accounted for the low mash temp as well as 34/70's epic attenuation. One thing I wasn't sure of was whether to leave it at 17/18 until cold crashing or dial it back down to normal lager fermenting temps for the 5 or 6 days between FG and cold-crashing; I took it back down to 13. Maybe I would have been better off just cold crashing it from there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted April 29, 2016 Author Share Posted April 29, 2016 The method I use is to ferment at your chosen temp, which for me is 10C, raise it to 18C when the SG is where I want it, usually around 1.020 down from 1.045-50, and leave it there until a few days after it reaches FG, then crash chill it for 2 weeks. There's no point interrupting it and dropping it back to ferment temps, it'll just take longer to clean up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy-o Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 Good one. Thanks, Otto & headmaster - these are pretty new processes for me so it'll take some time to get the details right. Doesn't mean I'll stop talking like I know what the hell I'm talking about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headmaster Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 I second that, I just leave at 18c for a few days, before CCing. I must say I've never consciously tasted diactyl or a buttery popcorn flavour, but I suspect if bottled with this, unlikely to diminish, I do know however that the sulphur compounds will diminish in the bottle, but better to let them breathe out in the FV at the the DR temp. Are you sure it's not sulphur or H2S you are tasting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy-o Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 The sulfurous flavour was noticable towards the end of the two weeks at fermenting temps, but it seemed to pretty much clear up in the first day of the cold crash. To be honest I'm not 100% sure it's diacetyl. It's not a completely overwhelming flavour. There's just something to it that strikes very different to the same wort fermented with a different yeast, and it's not one that I've noticed in my other beers. I say diacetyl based on my reading of common off flavours - it matches what I've tasted most closely, but it may just be the character of the malts or a very minor issue exaggerated by the simpleness of the bill. I also wasn't sure how diacetyl presented itself, but I feel like I know it now - the flavour of a fancy German lager poured from a country pub where you're the first person to not have Tooheys New in three months. Sometimes you'll get an overpoweringly 'off' beer and for me it seems like nobody else could give a shit, but I find it hard to finish. I always wondered what it was doing it, but I bet it's diacetyl. There's a slight note in this beer, but I'm tasting it again and it's barely there so I'm going to just bottle it and make sure it gets some nice warm bottle conditioning in the shed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted April 30, 2016 Author Share Posted April 30, 2016 Diacetyl is more of a buttery/butterscotch flavour. It doesn't taste like off beer. I've wondered whether I've tasted it in some of my lagers in the past, but it turned out that they just weren't carbonated enough yet. They always taste sweeter when they are flat or not fully carbed. Once they carbonated, they were fine. NB: This was in kegs too, so they were cold the whole time sitting on gas, not warmed up for yeast to clean anything up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy-o Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 This is just going by the BJCP / common internet resources definition of 'off flavours.' Not quite the 'like old fish-guts scraped from the inside of your dad's tinnie' definition... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian.taylor4 Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 Brew day today with the EB Porter (Recipe from King Ruddy's Utube hand puppet). First time steeping speciality grains, with them milled from National Home Brew online. Used 200g of Mesquite smoked malt, and the smokiness is delicious ! Tasting from the hydrometer is really, really good ! Finished construction of the STC-1000 control box during the week and now running it on the fridge for a week while I leave town for work. Wanted to have a couple of brews going while I'm away. (Other is a K&K Mex Cerveza that half will be bottled with some added Jalapeño). http://i.imgur.com/27e6nXS.jpg http://i.imgur.com/LjTwFrk.jpg http://i.imgur.com/JjDLHgY.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 Less that 18 hours after pitching my rehydrated yeast into my little IPA I have a nice, clean white Krausen cover. Also some sweet smelling aromas. My hopping schedule to produce this fine aroma was: 15.00 g Northern Brewer @ 60 mins 18.00 g Chinook @ 30 20.00 g Cascade @ 15 20.00 g Cascade @ 6 15.00 g Mosaic @ 1 (steep for 10, whirlpool and another 20 before it was all in the FV at 20 degrees) Cheers & Beers Scottie Valley Brew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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