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What's in Your Fermenter? 2016


Otto Von Blotto

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Just threw in my Cascadian pale ale and cold pitched the US-05 yeast. It's currently coming down to ~18C in the brew fridge which I have back now for its intended purpose. tongue

 

The OG is bugging me though. When I took a post boil sample on the brew day, it read 1.046. I took a sample today when transferring from the cube and it is now reading 1.043. WTF! unsure I'm gonna go check the hydrometer in water again in a sec and see if it has gone even further out of whack, because I find this quite ridiculous to be honest, and I'm not sure which reading is the correct one. pinched

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I'm gonna go check the hydrometer in water again in a sec and see if it has gone even further out of whack' date=' because I find this quite ridiculous to be honest, and I'm not sure which reading is the correct one. [img']pinched[/img]

 

Oh no not the much lauded glass one. surprised Hope it's an aberration. wink

 

I have a Real Ale with a bit of crystal, late hopped with Citra and Chinook, this will be followed with a dry hopping of the same after the krausen has started dropping, oh crap, I'm using US-05 so seven days. wink

 

Cheers.

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Well, it's not the hydrometer. It's still reading the same 2 points low that it has done for months (and probably more months before I checked it that initial time too)lol.

 

I posted the query on AHB as well, another guy uses the same method as I do with regard to taking post-boil SG readings. I drain the kettle into the cube first, then fill up a pyrex jug with the rubbish in the bottom and leave it to cool and settle out, so I have enough clear wort for a reading. His post-boil and transferred to FV SG readings vary as well, with the post-boil ones always higher, exactly as happened here in this instance.

 

It's a weird thing, but I will just go with the higher reading, because it is consistent with the pre-boil SG (1.038) and the 80-90 minute boil or whatever it was. After that long it would have increased the SG by more than 5 points.

 

IN future I'll just take post-boil readings and use those as my OG. I'll still take a sample when transferring to the FV for interests' sake, but I will ignore it other than for that. I have consistency in my post-boil readings, which makes it a lot easier to set an efficiency number for creating recipes, than using figures that bounce around. And also it's better to over estimate the ABV really, especially in my line of work. bandit

 

Why this difference occurs though is a bit of a mystery.

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The OG of the wort once in your fermenter just prior to pitching the yeast is the only OG reading that really matters.

 

Any gravity readings taken along the way to that point are merely checking mechanisms to make sure something isn't going, or hasn't gone amiss with your brewing processes based upon the expected levels of the given recipe you are making.

 

These sorts of readings are areas I would only look into if there was a notable difference with the gravity of the wort in the FV prior to pitching the yeast, than what my software calculates I should have.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

Lusty.

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That's very odd... I guess the answer is yes but are you sure the temps are the same when measuring the samples?

 

I can only think of some of the sugars gravitating to the bottom of the kettle, just as the trub does during the post boil stand.

 

I have noticed something weird along these lines, if I bulk prime a batch, swirl to mix with racking action, mix for good measure with a sanitised brewing spoon, at the end of the bottling session say 40 mins later, if I drink the last little bit at the bottom of the bottling bucket/vessel, it tastes sweeter than the rest of the batch. I know because sometimes i pour myself a small beaker before starting or during the bottling to sip while I'm bottling it to evaluate the flavours.. :-)

 

Maybe some of these sugars aren't as soluble or remain in suspension as perfectly as we expect.

 

 

 

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What's in my fermenter? FV 1 has a bath of sod. perc. in it, readying it for a brew that will happen tomorrow night - I need my beer stock to build up so that I can have a crack at making a good lager, so it will just be a nice hoppy pale ale something along the lines of the fruit salad ale recipe, except that I'll be starting with unhopped malt extract and going from there.

 

FV 2 already has a similar brew in it and is cold crashing now, ready for bottling in four days from now. This brew tasted magnificent when sampling the little bit I used for the FG reading. When this FV is done with I should have enough beer stock to have a crack at a lager and I'm going to time it so that it is lagering for the month that I'll be in Vietnam, starting in early April.

 

This leads me to a question: As I will be in Vietnam for a month and I don't want to waste the time that I could be productively brewing something, is it feasible to cold crash an ale for a month? Or am I stretching the limits when it comes to infections etc? It would be nice to have both FVs doing something and I don't want to risk two lagers at once - the lager I brew this time will be the first time if try a lager from scratch, using unhopped malt, specialty grain and my own choice of hops - so if it turns out to be a dud, I don't want two of them on my hands.

 

Cheers

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The OG is bugging me though. When I took a post boil sample on the brew day' date=' it read 1.046. I took a sample today when transferring from the cube and it is now reading 1.043. WTF! [img']unsure[/img] I'm gonna go check the hydrometer in water again in a sec and see if it has gone even further out of whack, because I find this quite ridiculous to be honest, and I'm not sure which reading is the correct one. pinched

G'day Kelsey,

 

That has happened to me before as well. It should be the other way round, if anything! I was worried some wild yeast had started fermenting in the cube, but there were no signs of activity and it tasted like fresh unfermented wort. The packaged beer was fine too, so I still have no explanation as to what happened.

 

 

I posted the query on AHB as well' date=' another guy uses the same method as I do with regard to taking post-boil SG readings. I drain the kettle into the cube first, then fill up a pyrex jug with the rubbish in the bottom and leave it to cool and settle out, so I have enough clear wort for a reading. His post-boil and transferred to FV SG readings vary as well, with the post-boil ones always higher, exactly as happened here in this instance.[/quote']

Good too hear we are not alone! I'm with Lusty though, the OG into the fermenter is the important one, so the reading I take from there just prior to pitching yeast is what I go on.

 

Cheers,

 

John

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Lusty, I'm not actually going off what the software predicts I should have, what I meant was, from a pre-boil gravity of 1.038, it's going to rise more than 5 points after an 80+ minute boil, so from that, I trust the post-boil SG reading I took on the brew day more than the reading I took today. Normally in my system the SG increases about 7-8 points after the boil. This has been consistently the same since I refined my process all those brews ago, and the brew day reading of 1.046 lines up with this.

 

The other thing is, this doesn't happen on every batch either. The last few I've done before this one have been the same SG when transferred into the FV as they were post boil on brew day. I've had one a couple of years back that actually read higher in the FV than it did on brew day. I don't think sugars are settling out as this won't happen unless it reaches saturation point. And you need a lot more sugar dissolved in it than there is in a standard wort (or even a strong wort).

 

Temperature of the samples is largely irrelevant because I correct all readings to account for this. Today's one was taken at about 28C I think, the brew day one was probably a degree or two higher. Whatever the case, I measure the temp of the sample and then feed this info into a correction calculator.

 

And finally, same thing with this one John, the wort tasted absolutely fine, like it normally does before it is fermented, so I daresay this isn't the issue either.

 

Just one of those weird vagaries I guess. I'll keep taking samples when transferring anyway, just to see how often this does happen, and how far out of whack they are each time. But I will be using the brew day post-boil reading as my actual OG.

 

Cheers

 

Kelsey

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I've never tried it but a can of Canadian Blonde has been staring me in the face every time I opened my cupboard so it's in the FV with a kilo of Coopers LDM.

 

The US-05 looks like it's done it's job, so today at day 8 I've upped the temp to 21 for a few more days then I might try my first cold crash just to see how shiny I can make it. But I'll probably continue to pour the bottle dregs in my glass anyhow. devil

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You know your setup better than anyone Kelsey, so I'm not doubting anything you have said.

 

Some possible areas to look into...

 

  • Did you change a grain from the last time you brewed this recipe?
  • Did you change an on day brewing procedure?
  • Is the potential listed under your grains correct?
  • You purchased a new grain mill recently, is this having an effect?
  • Was your last brewing of this recipe using the old grain mill?

 

Good luck getting to the bottom of it.

 

Lusty.

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Hey Lusty,

 

To answer your questions,

I've never brewed this exact recipe before, however I have used the same grain bill numerous times. The last one before this particular batch would have been on the current Chinook pale ale, this one read 1.050 both on brew day and in the FV. The only difference there was an extra 500g base malt. Always been Maris Otter, Munich II and medium crystal in my pale ales.

 

Brew day procedure was exactly the same as I have done for the last half dozen batches after I realised I had deviated from my original procedure unwittingly, which was causing volume issues. So I'm back to the original procedure that I worked out back when I was first starting.

 

I imagine it would be, I'm just using the default potential in Beersmith as I've always done. Have never changed these figures.

 

I got a new roller, and it gives a better grain crush than it did with the old roller set up. Way less flour, and I'm getting better efficiency as well. This is why I have now dropped the base malt by 500g.

 

I'm pretty sure all the previous batches using this grain bill were done while I still had the old roller in the mill, however, this shouldn't cause the SG to change just because the wort has been sitting in a cube for a couple of weeks or whatever. The sugars don't just up and disappear.

 

Like I say, I drain the urn into the cube then fill a pyrex jug with the muck in the bottom and wait for it to settle out so that I can fill the test jar with only clear wort for the reading. Same on transfer day; I open the tap on the cube and let it drain until clear wort is coming through, then take a sample, and then let it drain the rest into the FV, so both samples are the same clear wort.

 

It's an interesting thing and I would love to know why it happens, but in order to keep some of my sanity tongue and get consistent OG readings that are in line with my pre-boil readings on every batch, I can't rely on the FV samples if they keep changing from what the original post boil readings were. I will keep taking them though out of curiosity.

 

Cheers

 

Kelsey

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first brew i've put down since tipping a batch on bottling day a few weeks ago , didnt buy anything at all so its a "leftovers brew"

its a pseudo pilsner

TC 86 days pils can 1.7 Kg

500g pale ale grain

300g LDM

500g BE2

brewed to 23 litres

 

10 min boil 12g saaz

flameout of 15 each cascade and citra

 

15 g pack of American ale yeast /US-05 from morgans rehydrated

pitched at 19 C

ferment at 17-18 C

 

hop tea of another 12 g Saaz when foam drops

finings day 12 with maybe a little more cascade

 

OG 1.044

 

fingers crossed it comes out anything like i intend it too ....

 

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Day 6 of the Cascadian pale ale being in the FV and the SG is down to 1.008. That's only one point off the Beersmith prediction of 1.007. I'll test it again on Thursday but I'd say it's done. The krausen had fully collapsed back into the brew yesterday, and I'm actually a bit skeptical of the temperature it's been fermenting at. This sample measured 24C, with the controller saying 21.. now obviously it will have warmed up a little from being put into a warm test tube and being out in the open for a few minutes but I wouldn't have thought by that much.

 

Next batch I will use a much thicker layer of insulating foam and see if it makes any difference.

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Otto's Red Ale at Day 14 and just added 30g Cascade Dry Hop Commando.

G'day Scottie' date=' what happened to your commando hops in the end? Did they settle out ok? The only reason I ask is because I also dry hopped (commando-style) my last brew and the pellets took a while to settle out, but finally did. Now I'm trying to figure out if I got lucky, or this is what usually happens.

 

The krausen had fully collapsed back into the brew yesterday, and I'm actually a bit skeptical of the temperature it's been fermenting at. This sample measured 24C, with the controller saying 21.. now obviously it will have warmed up a little from being put into a warm test tube and being out in the open for a few minutes but I wouldn't have thought by that much.

I wouldn't worry about this batch too much Kelsey. According to some Brulosophy exbeeriments the temperature doesn't matter that much anyway as long as its constant, even for lager yeast. Still worth taking care of for next time though.

 

Cheers,

 

John

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Yes well it certainly doesn't taste like crap or full of esters or anything, so it can't be too bad. lol I have read those posts on there about the stable temp being more important than what the actual temp is (to a point, of course). And well, it's obviously been stable.

 

I'm not gonna faff about with the foam until the next batch goes in, will just cut double the length so it can be folded double the times to give double the thickness. Should have realised really... I have noted that this sheet of foam is thinner than stuff I've used in the past, so it will take more of it to get the same thickness of insulation. One lot I had I only had to fold in half to get a decent thickness, but this stuff needs about 10 folds to get to that. pouty Good thing I've got a massive sheet of it! lol

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Well Hello

 

Been a long time since I posted. I have acquired a craft brew kit and just put the Amber Ale in. Will dry hop with some cascade I have. Can't be assed and don't have time to get other hops atm. Well I might, have a few days before the need to put em in.

 

2015 was a bit of a slack year for home brewing. The fact that my brew fridge broke had a lot to do with it.

 

Did a couple of Kit and Bits and a couple for FWK's during the year when the temps were cooler. Heater belt and sleeping bag round the FV did the trick, but alas I find it a lot of work to keep the FV cool in the summer without a fridge and SWMBO doesn't want it in the house...

 

Have a new fridge now, look forward to getting back into it.

 

Cheers

Phil

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Thank You Lusty

 

BTW had a read through your Blueberry Porter discussion, trying not to get distracted by the finings debate wink. I have a soft spot for Porter for sure.

 

Look forward to hearing how that one went.

 

 

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I made a mistake in my last post, forgot to add the two points for hydrometer error. It was actually at 1.010. Today, 2 days later it is still at 1.010, so I'm taking that as finished. Now time to go throw in the dry hop and drop the temp down to 0 so it can be kegged next Saturday.

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Kelsey,

 

Was making this Evil Dead/Evil Twin red ale last night, contained in this article. http://www.mrmalty.com/late_hopping.php

 

Sure enough, when comparing gravity readings from the kettle waste and wort, the kettle waste, both before and after settling out trub, was three points higher, 1.069 compared to 1.066. Very odd but clear as day that this is happening. Wonder what the reason is?

 

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More evidence of this phenomenon, gravity readings from the kettle waste and main wort, the settled out kettle waste, was 4 points higher, 1.045 compared to 1.041 for an NZ pilsner I made last night (single hop Motueka, urquell clone grist but using Motueka instead of saaz)

 

That 0.004 gravity difference measured results in a 0.5% ABV error.

 

So the moral of this story is, do not use your kettle waste/trub to measure your post boil gravity. It's way out. Don't know why, but must be something to do with the hopstand or whirlpool, sugars settling out at the bottom, or sugars being retained in trub matter somehow.

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Yeah, the only problem in my case is that this discrepancy between the two different readings doesn't happen on every batch. I've had quite a number of them read the same post boil and after transferring to the FV, and one that read higher in the FV than it did on brew day. So I don't bloody know... all I know is that the post-boil readings on brew day are consistently in line with what I'd expect the SG to increase by after a 75-80 minute boil, and the FV readings are not. I prefer to stick with what is consistent rather than something that is all over the shop, given that the brewing process is consistent every batch.

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